Land use

[adjusterjack]

The neighbor disposed of the survey stakes.

Then you are already at war.

The neighbors might not be so recalcitrant when faced with a lawsuit.

Until you are willing to file, they get to use your property with impunity until the cows come home.

(Pun intended.)

 

[quincy]

Then you are already at war.

The neighbors might not be so recalcitrant when faced with a lawsuit.

Until you are willing to file, they get to use your property with impunity until the cows come home.

(Pun intended.)

The fence should definitely stay in place if cows are still roaming.

 

[Curious2134]

I am very appreciative of all your insight on this. You've given me ideas and information that I definitely didn't have before. I did eventually find a new lawyer, who sounds like an older gentleman, who said he deals with this situation all the time - but he's usually hired by the title insurance companies. 350/hr.
But we spoke on the phone for a while and then told told me to call our title insurance. Told me how to check on whether I have it and where to look in the closing paperwork. If I didn't, then my mortgage company might have an interest, so instructed me on calling them. Gave me his name and personal cell to call back if I really want to proceed. Wife told me she doesn't care if we have to take out a home equity loan, we're not losing this...

The insurance guy said he's going to check to see if there is any reason they shouldn't have insured our property's title. Very rare if there is he said. I don't remember exactly what he said but he's suppose to call me back. I don't know enough not to hope this at least helps the defense of our property line.

 

[quincy]

I am very appreciative of all your insight on this. You've given me ideas and information that I definitely didn't have before. I did eventually find a new lawyer, who sounds like an older gentleman, who said he deals with this situation all the time - but he's usually hired by the title insurance companies. 350/hr.
But we spoke on the phone for a while and then told told me to call our title insurance. Told me how to check on whether I have it and where to look in the closing paperwork. If I didn't, then my mortgage company might have an interest, so instructed me on calling them. Gave me his name and personal cell to call back if I really want to proceed. Wife told me she doesn't care if we have to take out a home equity loan, we're not losing this...

The insurance guy said he's going to check to see if there is any reason they shouldn't have insured our property's title. Very rare if there is he said. I don't remember exactly what he said but he's suppose to call me back. I don't know enough not to hope this at least helps the defense of our property line.

It looks like you are locating helpful people in your area. Good.

Good luck.

 

[adjusterjack]

I don't know enough

This illustrates the necessity of keeping and understanding your property purchase records.

Your closing statement should look something like this HUD-1 statement:

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/1.PDF

See line 1103 Owner's Title Insurance. If you got a title insurance policy, it will be reflected there. Title insurance policies, if not included at closing, get mailed to the buyer within a week or two.

 

[quincy]

... I did eventually find a new lawyer ... Gave me his name and personal cell to call back if I really want to proceed. Wife told me she doesn't care if we have to take out a home equity loan, we're not losing this...

You are probably best off with the lawyer if your wife is intent on pursuing this. Because your new neighbors have leased some of their land to the cow owners, and the land they leased includes by virtue of the fence a portion of your land, this can get complicated if the neighbors want to make it complicated. And it appears that they do.

 

[not2cleverRed]

4) The neighbor disposed of the survey stakes. Am I supposed to pay for another survey to mark these trees or just guess? I don't know the answer to that for sure either because I'm not sure I got the right information from the guy in the first place.

Contact the surveyor. They might have some advice on how to handle this - like, if this applies: https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/missouri/mo-laws/missouri_laws_60-355 However, I think this only applies to permanent monuments, which it sounds like you don't have.

Don't guess. Get permanent monuments.

 

[quincy]

Here is a Missouri case with a similar fact pattern that shows the challenges one can face when a dispute over property boundaries reaches the court level:

https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/court-of-appeals/2002/24280-1.html

 

[Bali Hai Again]

Here is a Missouri case with a similar fact pattern that shows the challenges one can face when a dispute over property boundaries reaches the court level:

https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/court-of-appeals/2002/24280-1.html

Excellent reference. As more people move to the country and buy property I think you will see more of these cases. Most people who buy property are ignorant of these laws. The time to raise these issues with the seller is before you sign on the dotted line and not after. Get a survey and walk the property with the surveyor. Any red flags (i.e. fence on property being sold) should be brought to the negotiating table regarding price.

 

[Litigator22]

[QE="quincy, post: 3791722, member: 327460"]
Here is a Missouri case with a similar fact pattern that shows the challenges one can face when a dispute over property boundaries reaches the court level:

https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/court-of-appeals/2002/24280-1.html
[/QUOTE]
I too came upon the Missouri case of Underwood vs Hash, 677 SW3d 770 a couple of weeks ago. (See my posting here on 8/16/23.)

But then only to note that should the circumstances in the instant state of affairs give rise to applying the "doctrine of boundary by acquiescence" it is alive and well in Missouri.

However, as this thread has since unfolded it doesn't' appear to me to be a dispute over the whereabouts of a contiguous boundary line (as was in Underwood), but rather an argument over a random, imprecise, patch of partially fenced interior ground.

Which under no stretch of the rules of adverse possession as thoroughly and eloquently reviewed in Underwood could in my humble opinion serve to benefit its claimed occupant. In particular lacking the capability of effectively identifying, measuring and describing the precise tract of property in controversy.

How would one go about drafting a proposed judgment granting ownership by adverse possession over such an imprecise piece of ground? You couldn't. Nor would a title accompany accept it if attempted!
_________________

Getting back to Underwood - I much enjoyed the reading. One has to wonder at the ineptitude of Underwood's lawyers in raising such preposterously theories.

For instance, arguing that since defendant Hash truly believed he was occupying his own deeded land and not that of Underwood his possession thereof of could not possibly be hostile.

Missouri case law is replete with rulings to the contrary wherein "hostile" means "claiming under right." Mistakenly or not! Aggressively or not. See: Baker vs. Allen 273 SW2d 191.

Lastly, I'm at a loss to understand why there is no mention in Underwood of the Missouri Revisory Statute 516.010:

"No action for the recovery of any lands, tenements or hereditaments, or for the recovery of the possession thereof, shall be commenced, had or maintained by any person, whether citizen, denizen, alien, resident or nonresident of this state, unless it appear that the plaintiff, his ancestor, predecessor, grantor or other person under whom he claims was seized or possessed of the premises in question, within ten years before the commencement of such action."

 

[quincy]

... Missouri case law is replete with rulings to the contrary wherein "hostile" means "claiming under right." Mistakenly or not! Aggressively or not. See: Baker vs. Allen 273 SW2d 191
...

The Missouri Rev Stat 516.010 link that I provided earlier (post #17) has the law but also lists several cases on adverse possession that make for interesting reading (and some head scratching).

It will be interesting to hear how the attorney handles the matter for Curious2134 (should Curious decide to hire the one he contacted).

 

[Bali Hai Again]

The Missouri Rev Stat 516.010 link that I provided earlier (post #17) has the law but also lists several cases on adverse possession that make for interesting reading (and some head scratching).

It will be interesting to hear how the attorney handles the matter for Curious2134 (should Curious decide to hire the one he contacted).

It would also be interesting to hear how the OP’s original attorney that handled the title search and closing let the
disclosure leading to this dispute slip through the cracks without informing the OP of the potential consequences. Or maybe they did.

 

[quincy]

It will be nice if Curious returns to sate our curiosity and let us know how everything works out.

 

[Curious2134]

I will update as soon as I have something new since you are curious. Still waiting and working on a path forward. The lawyer wants me to wait for the title insurance company to respond so right now, just waiting on them.

 

[quincy]

I will update as soon as I have something new since you are curious. Still waiting and working on a path forward. The lawyer wants me to wait for the title insurance company to respond so right now, just waiting on them.

Thanks. We’ll keep the thread warm and the door open waiting for your return.