Law Enforcement

[HRZ]

A small observation also made in part by Cdw ...a resign or be fired situation is almost always treated as a fired for unemployment purposes and if it's not for cause one is likely to qualify for UC if you meet the other criteria as well. The jargon matters in different forums .and in hindsight a resignation might have been cleaner going forward ....but it is as it is and do NOT lie or double talk it.

In a totally different place and time I was involved in recruitment and use of psych evaluations ...let's just say it can be very murky and twisted.

I agree with Cdw on all points ( not that my vote counts .)

As an aside , many a college or university has a big private police force ...often with lower pay but sometimes with valuable benefits if they fit your situation....

 

[xylene]

OUTSIDER THINKING: Have you considered actually working with a psychiatrist to assess youself.

Maybe these highly trained assessors aren't out to get you.

Maybe you might even want to address something.

There are a lots of careers besides law enforcement.

 

[xylene]

And BTW, if someone had come on this forum and said "I'm having a hard time becoming a teacher because of a psych eval" we probly wouldn't be coming up with ways to skate on that serious negative finding.

 

[CdwJava]

Sadly, I have seen problems with psych evals and evaluators. But, it's less an issue of whether an applicant is inappropriate altogether, and more that he fails to meet the parameters set for that particular agency. He may come across with a higher assertive or aggressive score than the agency is comfortable with, for instance. Or lower empathy. There are a number of reasons why he might not rate a passing evaluation with a psych.

Psych evals can also depend upon the day. They can be, to some degree, very subjective, and they can also vary by day. If the applicant is having a bad day, he may come across poorly. The same eval the next day could reflect differently. Psych evals in law enforcement are not universal. While the MMPI seems to be part of the standard, many firms use their own tests as well, coupled with a personal eval. I have seen the personal side last 10 minutes or nearly 2 hours. The one my agency used was at the 2 hour spectrum and his evaluations (I read them) were on the money every time! The two that I did not pass when I was trying to break in in the late 80s had 10 minute interviews (including some weird tests with strings, drawing, and pictures).

 

[Shadowbunny]

And BTW, if someone had come on this forum and said "I'm having a hard time becoming a teacher because of a psych eval" we probly wouldn't be coming up with ways to skate on that serious negative finding.

That was my initial thought, too. My background is behavioral health, and someone saying they failed a psych exam gave me pause. But I'll also say this: psych evals are so highly subjective that it's not only possible, but probable, for evaluators to have differing opinions as to suitability.

So after seeing Cdw's detailed explanations, I've changed my perspective. (And BTW, Cdw, your posts were really informative. You are a valuable asset to to this site.)

 

[xylene]

That was my initial thought, too. My background is behavioral health, and someone saying they failed a psych exam gave me pause. But I'll also say this: psych evals are so highly subjective that it's not only possible, but probable, for evaluators to have differing opinions as to suitability.

So after seeing Cdw's detailed explanations, I've changed my perspective. (And BTW, Cdw, your posts were really informative. You are a valuable asset to to this site.)

Agree 100% with your view and in particular your thoughts on Cdw's insights and contribution to this community - that said I missed the OP saying he had looked into himself, or even that he was having a bad day.

 

[CdwJava]

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

His is not an isolated sort of issue. Often, a parade of disqualifications become a self-fulfilling prophecy for a while and you have to step back and look at a different tack to take. In Legion90's case, he apparently had a successful career with LAPD until he chose to move on, so chances are he has not had some dramatic break (as I think most of us acknowledge) but an issue with regards to the subjectivity of these evals, and even parameters set by the contracting agencies. I have seen officers in his identical position before, and many are able to get back into the career after a bit of consternation. Some few, however (including a very good friend of mine), are never able to move past the DQ hurdle and after a string of 4 DQs in a matter of a few months, it becomes clear that it may never happen again.

As a note, I have been communicating with Legion90 via PM on suggestions and some possible options.

 

[Shadowbunny]

Agree 100% with your view and in particular your thoughts on Cdw's insights and contribution to this community - that said I missed the OP saying he had looked into himself, or even that he was having a bad day.

Oh, as a therapist I think that most of us could use some more introspection -- I hope that Legion90 has spent some time reflecting on whether the evaluations had any merit.

Legion90, I wish you nothing but the best. First responders and military personnel have a thankless job, and I appreciate those like you and Cdw who pursue a career of service.

 

[CdwJava]

One thing to remember is that the contents and results of the psych eval are NOT provided to the applicant (at least in CA - other states may have different regs). The agency receives only a notice stating whether the applicant is acceptable or not. The full report is NOT (or SHOULD NOT be) in the possession of the agency. In my agency only the Chief and I could read the full evaluation, and after that I destroyed it. if the psych eval is in the possession of the agency, it is potentially discoverable, so an agency should never hold onto it.

 

[Shadowbunny]

Oh, that's interesting, @CdwJava, that they don't give it to the applicant. Gotta tell you, that would drive me a bit batty to be told "you failed the psych eval, but we're not telling you why." I mean, I get it. You don't want applicants who game the system by changing their answers just in order to get past the eval, but still. Must be maddening.

 

[CdwJava]

It can be. All the applicant will get is a letter stating that they are no longer considering the applicant. Some will state it is is because of the psych eval, others will not. But, if you have completed the background and gotten to the conditional offer phase, all that's left is the psych and the medical. And, if they find some horrible medical issue, the medical exam folks notify you as well. So, if you didn't get a notice from the medical people that you are dying or have some horrible issue, then all that tends to be left is the psych ... OR, a last minute background interview or discovery that tears it.

Plus, gaming the MMPI when coupled with the CPI and other exams can be tough.

 

[Legion90]

Hello everyone,

I have just read everyone’s comments and I appreciate the insights. Yes it’s true, the psychologist did tell me that I came off as aggressive and a go getter, so maybe I wasn’t a good fit for a city and county as San Francisco where it’s more.......liberal. I mean, if I wasn’t a good fit, then I wasn’t a good fit. I know I can do this job, so it’s not a matter of “can I do this job?” Because I have proven it that I can. I actually received numerous awards at LAPD for being a good cop.

There is a huge difference policing in the Bay Area and Southern CA, and I’m sure we can all agree to that. I told my old Sgts, Training Officers, and coworkers from LAPD about the Bay Area and my psych and they were all shocked because clearly, they have worked with me and didn’t find anything wrong with me. But as mentioned, the psych process is very subjective. If a psych is used to dealing with small departments who don’t have an aggressive approach, then maybe they did think I was too aggressive coming from LAPD. To each is his own, no hard feelings. You win some and you lose some.

 

[CdwJava]

I transferred to the north state from southern CA and they are two different worlds of policing.