Legal Banking Theft

[Happy Trails]

Each of you who are so hell bent that it's the consumers fault and just plain blind, and I have some ocean front property in Kentucky that's for sale.

I have given you information, examples, other people with problems, places to read what some governement agencies have warned banks about, I've sent you to places where companies brag on how they can help banks increase their bank fee income. And still you are not even open to the facts that have been presented before you.

Your time will come, and you shall see. There was a program on over the weekend addressing this exact problem and how the public (except the ones on this forum) are outraged!

I bet each of you get paid by banks to get on here and defend their deceptive robbery.

The wonderful thing about America is you have the right to say what you think. You also have the option of not using the bank. Did you ever answer the question on whether or not you read the disclosures on what would happen if you went over?

 

[DebHgn]

The wonderful thing about America is you have the right to say what you think. You also have the option of not using the bank. Did you ever answer the question on whether or not you read the disclosures on what would happen if you went over?

As a matter of fact I did. It mentioned nothing about this bounce protection they participate in.

 

[tabathadolley]

I bet each of you get paid by banks to get on here and defend their deceptive robbery.

LMAO! Don't I wish! Actually I recently became unemployed(I still have one of my jobs that is part time). I could really use some of that money..lol. It's not robbery because it's YOUR job to be aware of how the bank works before YOU decide to put your money in an account. I'm not saying that I like how banks work or make money, and it's great that you are working to make positive changes.. but if you are overdrawn on your account for any of the reasons that have been listed in this discussion, you have to realize that is no one's fault but your own. Whether or not you like how their system works is another matter.. learn how to manage your money first.

 

[DebHgn]

LMAO! Don't I wish! Actually I recently became unemployed(I still have one of my jobs that is part time). I could really use some of that money..lol. It's not robbery because it's YOUR job to be aware of how the bank works before YOU decide to put your money in an account. I'm not saying that I like how banks work or make money, and it's great that you are working to make positive changes.. but if you are overdrawn on your account for any of the reasons that have been listed in this discussion, you have to realize that is no one's fault but your own. Whether or not you like how their system works is another matter.. learn how to manage your money first.

Well, Ms I'm unemployed. Just how long do you think you have before this hits your pocket book and you figure it out? It won't be long now. And I would suggest you better learn real quick how to squeeze the poop out of a nickle. You are going to need it.

 

[tabathadolley]

Actually I'm collecting unemployment and should have another job within a week or two. I know how to manage my money so that I don't have problems such as being overdrawn. And if I did, IT WOULD BE MY FAULT.

Have a nice day.

 

[curious100]

When using your ATM/Debit card for POS purchases, ACH transaction tells the merchant, if the card is stolen, and it also approves the AMOUNT! So why is there ever a lag when it is posted to your bank account.

You can check your balance online everday morning, and the available amount and the ledger amount will be different. There is no excuse for this.

As an example. I have a Paypal account for ebay, etc. I also have a debit card for that account. When I make a purchase with my debit card down the road at the convenient store, by the time I get home I have an email where it had already been posted.

If Paypal can do it, why the heck can't these big ass banks do it?

JETPETQXASS, no need to reply.

Deb,

You've obviously researched this a lot, but I just can't comprehend your reasoning, no matter how hard I try. When I write a paper check, I deduct it from my balance. When I pay a bill online, I deduct it from my balance. When I make an ATM withdrawal, I deduct it from my balance. When I make a POS purchase, I deduct it from my balance. And so on....

I am the one who keeps track of my balance and available funds. I can't rely on the bank to keep up-to-the-minute accurate records~~it's my responsibility to do so. I don't logon to see my available funds before I tell my husband if it's OK or not for him to withdraw money from the ATM~~I look in my checkbook register to see for myself what my available funds are.

I don't understand why you blame the bank for lag time in posting a POS purchase and deducting the money from your account balance. You already know you made the POS purchase, so you should have already deducted it from your available funds~~that money is no longer there, whether the bank has removed it or not, right? I think that's what JETX was saying~~that it's your responsibility to balance your own account~~not the bank's. Write a check, make a withdrawal, whatever, YOU deduct it from your balance, so you can stay on top of your available funds.

This isn't meant to slam you. I just, honestly, don't get why you're so riled up. What am I missing?

 

[DebHgn]

Deb,

You've obviously researched this a lot, but I just can't comprehend your reasoning, no matter how hard I try. When I write a paper check, I deduct it from my balance. When I pay a bill online, I deduct it from my balance. When I make an ATM withdrawal, I deduct it from my balance. When I make a POS purchase, I deduct it from my balance. And so on....

I am the one who keeps track of my balance and available funds. I can't rely on the bank to keep up-to-the-minute accurate records~~it's my responsibility to do so. I don't logon to see my available funds before I tell my husband if it's OK or not for him to withdraw money from the ATM~~I look in my checkbook register to see for myself what my available funds are.

I don't understand why you blame the bank for lag time in posting a POS purchase and deducting the money from your account balance. You already know you made the POS purchase, so you should have already deducted it from your available funds~~that money is no longer there, whether the bank has removed it or not, right? I think that's what JETX was saying~~that it's your responsibility to balance your own account~~not the bank's. Write a check, make a withdrawal, whatever, YOU deduct it from your balance, so you can stay on top of your available funds.

This isn't meant to slam you. I just, honestly, don't get why you're so riled up. What am I missing?

You do it the way everyone does. As do I. The problem is when you make one tiny mistake. It only has to be $1.00. From that point on, it's straight down hill, fast. Or, if they (the bank) puts a hold on your deposit, and they do this all the time. But let's say you did make that 1.00 mistake to keep it simple let's use small numbers. You thought you had $10.00 but really you only had $9.00. You made 10 POS transactions at .50 each. One for 5.00. That would be the $10 you thought you had. All of this the exact same day and all came to the bank the exact same time.

Instead of deducting all the .50 POS transactions and charging you for 1 overdraft, the 5.00 one. The bank processes the 5.00 one first, then all the .50 transactions. The bank can now charge you 2 overdraft fees of $35 each. Now how are you to know any of this is happening? You don't until you get a notice of the fees charged to your account 15 days later! So for 15 days your check register has been off by $70. Now if you run a tight budget paying bills, making purchases etc for $15 days by being off by $70. By the time you get your notice of the first 2 od charges you have sunk into fee hell.

However, if your bank had not added their new "courtesy protection" to your account, the last ATM of $5.00 would have been declined and you would have known there was a mistake somewhere and went to looking for it.

I don't have one problem with paying fees for od mistakes, but I certainly have an issue with the bank taking it upon themselves to loan me $5.00 so they can charge me $35 the next day with an additional $6.00 just because you went negative in your account. Say in the case above, I had $5.00 in my pocket for the kids lunch money for the next day. IF the POS transaction had been declined I either would have just no buy it, or would have used my cash if I really needed. But the bank took that choice away from me.

You see, there are companies out there that market computer programs to banks expressing how the company can help the bank increase their Fee income by 200-300 percent. This courtesy protection is not for you, it's not to save you embarrassment or anything but to increase bank fee income.

It's just plain wrong and unethical and it preys on the people who can least afford to line the pockets of bankers.

Now I know there are gonna be the usuals who cry fowl, but what I say is the truth, it's no secret, but not talked about much. You can search the Internet for "bounce protection" "overdraft fees" etc and you will find that you can't dispute anything I've said.

You might just find somewhere else that can explain it better for you to understand how it works.

I only have an issue with:

Being setup for "Courtesy Bounce Protection" without my knowledge, and being loaned money for an interest rate that breaks every usury laws in the US.

Also, I think $35 for an od plus $6 for whatever is just a little out of line.

A $1.00 mistake in your register can cost you a minimum of $41 dollars and you might not know it for a minimum of a week. Putting it that simple, do you see where it could really present a problem? Hope this helps you understand.

 

[tabathadolley]

You do it the way everyone does. As do I. The problem is when you make one tiny mistake. It only has to be $1.00. From that point on, it's straight down hill, fast. Or, if they (the bank) puts a hold on your deposit, and they do this all the time. But let's say you did make that 1.00 mistake to keep it simple let's use small numbers. You thought you had $10.00 but really you only had $9.00. You made 10 POS transactions at .50 each. One for 5.00. That would be the $10 you thought you had. All of this the exact same day and all came to the bank the exact same time.

It's obvious you just aren't understanding what we are saying, or you are ignoring for your own benefit. I get what you are saying, but it's not the banks fault that you make an error. If you have 9 dollars, and think you have 10 because of your own error.. it's your fault whatever charges result if you become overdrawn. If you don't like their policies, great! Work to make changes! But, I don't really mind because I DON'T OVERDRAW my accounts. In the few incidents where I have it was my fault and I just got over it. I knew their policies, and just had to face it.

 

[JETX]

It's obvious you just aren't understanding what we are saying, or you are ignoring for your own benefit. I get what you are saying, but it's not the banks fault that you make an error. If you have 9 dollars, and think you have 10 because of your own error.. it's your fault whatever charges result if you become overdrawn. If you don't like their policies, great! Work to make changes! But, I don't really mind because I DON'T OVERDRAW my accounts. In the few incidents where I have it was my fault and I just got over it. I knew their policies, and just had to face it.

Aw, but we have become a society of VICTIMS, and it is so much easier, as in this case, for the OP to try to place the blame on others rather than to admit her own responsibility for the problem that SHE created.
Simply, this writer is a victim in her own mind, and no matter how much reality dictates otherwise, she is clearly unable or unwilling to accept that SHE is responsible for her own actions/conduct.

 

[curious100]

You do it the way everyone does. As do I. The problem is when you make one tiny mistake. It only has to be $1.00. From that point on, it's straight down hill, fast. Or, if they (the bank) puts a hold on your deposit, and they do this all the time. But let's say you did make that 1.00 mistake to keep it simple let's use small numbers. You thought you had $10.00 but really you only had $9.00. You made 10 POS transactions at .50 each. One for 5.00. That would be the $10 you thought you had. All of this the exact same day and all came to the bank the exact same time.

Instead of deducting all the .50 POS transactions and charging you for 1 overdraft, the 5.00 one. The bank processes the 5.00 one first, then all the .50 transactions. The bank can now charge you 2 overdraft fees of $35 each. Now how are you to know any of this is happening? You don't until you get a notice of the fees charged to your account 15 days later! So for 15 days your check register has been off by $70. Now if you run a tight budget paying bills, making purchases etc for $15 days by being off by $70. By the time you get your notice of the first 2 od charges you have sunk into fee hell.

However, if your bank had not added their new "courtesy protection" to your account, the last ATM of $5.00 would have been declined and you would have known there was a mistake somewhere and went to looking for it.

I don't have one problem with paying fees for od mistakes, but I certainly have an issue with the bank taking it upon themselves to loan me $5.00 so they can charge me $35 the next day with an additional $6.00 just because you went negative in your account. Say in the case above, I had $5.00 in my pocket for the kids lunch money for the next day. IF the POS transaction had been declined I either would have just no buy it, or would have used my cash if I really needed. But the bank took that choice away from me.

You see, there are companies out there that market computer programs to banks expressing how the company can help the bank increase their Fee income by 200-300 percent. This courtesy protection is not for you, it's not to save you embarrassment or anything but to increase bank fee income.

It's just plain wrong and unethical and it preys on the people who can least afford to line the pockets of bankers.

Now I know there are gonna be the usuals who cry fowl, but what I say is the truth, it's no secret, but not talked about much. You can search the Internet for "bounce protection" "overdraft fees" etc and you will find that you can't dispute anything I've said.

You might just find somewhere else that can explain it better for you to understand how it works.

I only have an issue with:

Being setup for "Courtesy Bounce Protection" without my knowledge, and being loaned money for an interest rate that breaks every usury laws in the US.

Also, I think $35 for an od plus $6 for whatever is just a little out of line.

A $1.00 mistake in your register can cost you a minimum of $41 dollars and you might not know it for a minimum of a week. Putting it that simple, do you see where it could really present a problem? Hope this helps you understand.

Wow. I think your logic is really convoluted. Are you saying you'd prefer the bank to bounce your check instead of covering it for a fee? WHY??? When all is said and done, you'll probably end up paying the same amount in returned check fees from your bank and the merchant who received your bad check, not to mention now having a ding in your credit history. And, if the check that bounces is for your mortgage, now you're developing a poor payment history with your lender which, believe me, will only bite you in the ass down the road. Your example was very simplistic, but in reality, those checks you would be bouncing are for a lot more than 50 cents or $5.00.

Have you ever taken a cash advance against a credit card? You sure pay up the nose in fees for that convenience, don't you? How is that any different? Sounds as if this Courtesy Bounce Protection is similar to having a VISA card linked to your checking account for overdraft protection. I've had this overdraft protection in place since I opened my account 31 years ago ~ it's nothing new. If they have to advance you money to cover a check, they charge you cash advance fees. It's the exact same premise, and I think it's definitely preferable to bouncing checks.

Now we're in the electronic age ~ people will check their balances at the ATM and see more than their registers tell them, so they withdraw money that truly isn't available, then get mad at the bank when a check bounces and they're charged fees for the "bank's" lag time in posting the "correct" balance.

Good credit is worth gold these days. It is much more desirable to have the bank cover some checks for a fee than to have several bounced checks on your bank's record, not to mention returned check dings and late charges with several different creditors. That's very difficult to bounce back from ~ no pun intended.

You won't change the bank's policies. If budgeting is so tight that an error will really send you out into orbit, I say just take your time to make sure your addition and subtraction are correct. Use a calculator. It's just that simple.

 

[Veronica1228]

Deb, don't you get it by now? No one here agrees with you. As you know, I work at a bank, but I am also a customer. I too have overdrawn my account accidentally. However, I pay close enough attention to it that I am able to catch it right away BEFORE I get slaughtered by fees. And I DO get charged fees just like everyone else. I don't get any special privledges at my bank just because I'm an Officer.

I realize that you are upset that your bank covered debits for you when there were no funds available, but most customers appreciate this. In many cases they are able to avoid additional charges from the entity that was issued a bad check (for exampe), not to mention the embarrassment of the rejected payment.

I guess its true that you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

[JETX]

And some people INSIST on being a victim... even when clearly shown that they are not!!

 

[Who's Liable?]

D@mmit... I Want To Be A Victim!!!

 

[JETX]

D@mmit... I Want To Be A Victim!!!

As already agreed, your day to be the victim is TOMORROW!!!

 

[DebHgn]

Deb, don't you get it by now? No one here agrees with you. As you know, I work at a bank, but I am also a customer. I too have overdrawn my account accidentally. However, I pay close enough attention to it that I am able to catch it right away BEFORE I get slaughtered by fees. And I DO get charged fees just like everyone else. I don't get any special privledges at my bank just because I'm an Officer.

I realize that you are upset that your bank covered debits for you when there were no funds available, but most customers appreciate this. In many cases they are able to avoid additional charges from the entity that was issued a bad check (for exampe), not to mention the embarrassment of the rejected payment.

I guess its true that you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Just how do you catch it right away? If you have made a mistake and are not notified for 7-10 days how do you know you've made an error and overdrawn you accout?