life insurance

[mistoffolees]

If the life insurance policies are not set up to be part of alimony, the suggesting of the beneficiary being a trust would be a smart move.

I would suggest that you stop making recommendations without knowing if the court order allows it.

I don't care how badly Bali PO'ed the judge. That doesn't give the Judge the right to financially penalize him. That's an abuse of power, plain and simple. I'm very surprised, Misto, that you would even comment on that. We all know that judges are human and bring their prejudices with them to court each day. However, to imply that a financial slap is not just expected but also deserved due to less than stellar behavior? That is not one of the components of calculating a financial decision. Saying no just because they can. Imagine that.

And that is incredibly naive - and not legally accurate.

First, if the judge has the perception that Bali was hiding financial information, that allows judicial discretion. If Bali is not credible and ex was, that could easily AND LEGALLY sway the judge's decision.

Second, if Bali is uncooperative and unwilling to negotiate, the judge will have to choose. Bali's unwillingness to discuss or cooperate pretty much negates his right to complain about it later.

 

[tuffbrk]

I did not realize that the behavior to PO the judge was hiding assets or not being willing to disclose financial information. In that case, a Judge would have the discretion to rule as he sees fit as there is no information upon which to base his decision. That is not how I understood your comments in the post. My apologies.

 

[Bali Hai]

I would suggest that you stop making recommendations without knowing if the court order allows it.



And that is incredibly naive - and not legally accurate.

First, if the judge has the perception that Bali was hiding financial information, that allows judicial discretion.

That amounts to nothing more than, "I think you're hiding something, so I'm going to screw you over". A man spent 14 years of his life in prison based on a perception without proof. And guess what, there was not then and is not now any money to be found hiding anywhere. The money was hiding in the judge's mind.

If Bali is not credible and ex was, that could easily AND LEGALLY sway the judge's decision.

Bali didn't lay down and let the ex, her attorney and the judge (or my attorney for that matter) walk all over him. The judge wasn't used to that. The only thing the judge would find credible is if I jumped through hoops and did everything they demanded.

Second, if Bali is uncooperative and unwilling to negotiate, the judge will have to choose.

The judge told my lawyer that I should voluntarily pay alimony during the proceedings and even complained that I didn't do that when he finally wrote his decision. That decision was so poorly written, I thought my lawyer was pulling a joke on me. (I'm sure the idiot law clerk wrote it) The judge could have ordered me to pay alimony during the proceedings but didn't, why? Alimony was off the table as far as I was concerned, if the judge didn't like that, tough!

Bali's unwillingness to discuss or cooperate pretty much negates his right to complain about it later.

You have that reversed, the COURT was unwillingy to discuss. The court wanted me to lay down, get trampled on and keep my mouth shut about it.

 

[mistoffolees]

You have that reversed, the COURT was unwillingy to discuss. The court wanted me to lay down, get trampled on and keep my mouth shut about it.

Having watched your performance here, that's very unlikely.

However, if the court violated the law, you were free to have filed an appeal.

 

[Bali Hai]

I did not realize that the behavior to PO the judge was hiding assets or not being willing to disclose financial information. In that case, a Judge would have the discretion to rule as he sees fit as there is no information upon which to base his decision. That is not how I understood your comments in the post. My apologies.

That's misto's perception of what happened, in other words he plucked that information out of his @$$.

That's not what happened at all.

 

[tuffbrk]

Well, Prince Charming behaved badly. He was verbally reprimanded but that was it. No repercussions at all. I was assured by the ESP Judge that my divorce Judge would be advised of the behaviors, all of the no-shows, the belligerence and that a portion of my attorney fees would be assigned to him for payment and he would ensure that I wouldn't have to pay towards the ex's attorney. Blah, blah, blah...if he (and/or his attorney) didn't show up in 40 minutes to address the ESP today I'd be granted a divorce as outlined by my attorney -blah, blah, blah.

Never happened. He didn't show up, his attorney did, said boo hoo and I was re-scheduled again. I was ordered to pay half of his attorneys fees balance in addition to having paid his attorney his retainer. My expenses? They were my own. My children's expenses? They were my own. I was the "monied spouse" and apparently that meant I could be treated like a Rock Star as opposed to a middle income wage earner.

My perception is that they simply did not know what to do about my ex. When someone has nothing to lose, doesn't take responsibility for anything or themself - well, the responsible person just gets stuck with it all. That is far easier than ordering a person with no respoect for himself, never mind the laws.

I felt bullied by every legal representative I had come into contact with. I know exactly what you mean when you say they wanted you to lay down and let them walk all over you. I feel that is exactly what happened to me. They were all so dismissive of my comments, my concerns. All fully documented and supported. My ex did NOTHING!! Did not complete one form, had no supporting documentation. Doing NOTHING actually works in NJ.

The only exception to being bullied was the child custody mediator who correctly figured out my ex within 5 mins of meeting him.

For a Judge to sit on a bench and apologize to me?! Ridiculous. When a Judge apologizes you know that there is something wrong with the system.

 

[Bali Hai]

Well, Prince Charming behaved badly. He was verbally reprimanded but that was it. No repercussions at all. I was assured by the ESP Judge that my divorce Judge would be advised of the behaviors, all of the no-shows, the belligerence and that a portion of my attorney fees would be assigned to him for payment and he would ensure that I wouldn't have to pay towards the ex's attorney. Blah, blah, blah...if he (and/or his attorney) didn't show up in 40 minutes to address the ESP today I'd be granted a divorce as outlined by my attorney -blah, blah, blah.

Never happened. He didn't show up, his attorney did, said boo hoo and I was re-scheduled again. I was ordered to pay half of his attorneys fees balance in addition to having paid his attorney his retainer. My expenses? They were my own. My children's expenses? They were my own. I was the "monied spouse" and apparently that meant I could be treated like a Rock Star as opposed to a middle income wage earner.

My perception is that they simply did not know what to do about my ex. When someone has nothing to lose, doesn't take responsibility for anything or themself - well, the responsible person just gets stuck with it all. That is far easier than ordering a person with no respoect for himself, never mind the laws.

I felt bullied by every legal representative I had come into contact with. I know exactly what you mean when you say they wanted you to lay down and let them walk all over you. I feel that is exactly what happened to me. They were all so dismissive of my comments, my concerns. All fully documented and supported. My ex did NOTHING!! Did not complete one form, had no supporting documentation. Doing NOTHING actually works in NJ.

The only exception to being bullied was the child custody mediator who correctly figured out my ex within 5 mins of meeting him.

For a Judge to sit on a bench and apologize to me?! Ridiculous. When a Judge apologizes you know that there is something wrong with the system.

It's very refreshing to hear someone who knows the realities of just how the system works instead of white-washing it. Of course there are people who will say your ignorance got you where you are and you're trying to shift the blame. I know that's not the case.

You can put all the coats of paint you want on a septic tank pumping truck but it still smells like sh!t.

 

[tuffbrk]

Folks that are in the divorce process should just be aware that what "should" happen is not necessarily what will happen. So many folks ask what will happen, what will the judge do about X, what will be the deciding factors, will this be taken into account - the reality is that sometimes what should happen is what happens. Sometimes it does not. What seems logical and fair may not fall into what is defined as "legal."

Tough lessons to learn.

And for all of those happily marrieds thinking my luvvie would never...
I would NEVER have predicted the behavior I have experienced, would never have believed him capable of his actions. The ongoing harrassment? Who would've thought? He couldn't follow through on anything 10 minutes after a promise was made. Spite must be some pretty powerful motivator.

He has had a GF for a few months now. Barely sees the kids. So, so busy. I can only hope that eventually she distracts him enough that he stops using NJMSE to harrass me. And certainly it doesn't hurt to light a few candles in the hopes that she will marry him!!

 

[mistoffolees]

Folks that are in the divorce process should just be aware that what "should" happen is not necessarily what will happen. So many folks ask what will happen, what will the judge do about X, what will be the deciding factors, will this be taken into account - the reality is that sometimes what should happen is what happens. Sometimes it does not. What seems logical and fair may not fall into what is defined as "legal."

Oh, undoubtedly, there are cases of injustice.

But there are far more cases where people bring injustice on themselves by fighting the system rather than working with it. I know that saladspinner is an example of that. Everything Bali posts suggests that he is the cause of many of his problems, as well.

 

[LdiJ]

Oh, undoubtedly, there are cases of injustice.

But there are far more cases where people bring injustice on themselves by fighting the system rather than working with it. I know that saladspinner is an example of that. Everything Bali posts suggests that he is the cause of many of his problems, as well.

Paraphrasing....

God give me the grace to change the things that I can,
to accept the things that I cannot change, and

The wisdom to know the difference.

I think that is it in a nutshell when it comes to a divorce. There are some things that simply cannot be changed, others that can, and many people do not have the wisdom to know the difference...or are unable to find that wisdom amidst their anger.

Of course there are exceptions to that...like tuffbkr's ex who was and apparently still is a complete lunatic, but most people could benefit from a sit down talk with someone who knows better...to help them make things better for themselves.

We are capable here of giving them that sit down talk, but unfortunately I think that too many of us forget that we are talking to people who are honestly clueless, and sometimes our method of delivery simply reinforces their anger and stubborness, instead of making a lightbulb go off in their heads.

 

[LdiJ]

Oh, undoubtedly, there are cases of injustice.

But there are far more cases where people bring injustice on themselves by fighting the system rather than working with it. I know that saladspinner is an example of that. Everything Bali posts suggests that he is the cause of many of his problems, as well.

Paraphrasing....

God give me the grace to change the things that I can,
to accept the things that I cannot change, and

The wisdom to know the difference.

I think that is it in a nutshell when it comes to a divorce. There are some things that simply cannot be changed, others that can, and many people do not have the wisdom to know the difference...or are unable to find that wisdom amidst their anger.

Of course there are exceptions to that...like tuffbkr's ex who was and apparently still is a complete lunatic, but most people could benefit from a sit down talk with someone who knows better...to help them make things better for themselves.

We are capable here of giving them that sit down talk, but unfortunately I think that too many of us forget that we are talking to people who are honestly clueless, and sometimes our method of delivery simply reinforces their anger and stubborness, instead of making a lightbulb go off in their heads.

 

[Bali Hai]

Oh, undoubtedly, there are cases of injustice.

But there are far more cases where people bring injustice on themselves by fighting the system rather than working with it. I know that saladspinner is an example of that. Everything Bali posts suggests that he is the cause of many of his problems, as well.

You know what irks me about that statement, you KNOW there are cases of injustice and you couldn't care less. That's the system I resent.

A person fighting for and striving for justice and subsequently receives injustice at the hands of the system is ok with you, and, apparently encourged by you, and that irks me even more. That is not what I was taught to accept.

 

[Bali Hai]

Paraphrasing....

God give me the grace to change the things that I can,
to accept the things that I cannot change, and

The wisdom to know the difference.

I think that is it in a nutshell when it comes to a divorce. There are some things that simply cannot be changed, others that can, and many people do not have the wisdom to know the difference...or are unable to find that wisdom amidst their anger.

Of course there are exceptions to that...like tuffbkr's ex who was and apparently still is a complete lunatic, but most people could benefit from a sit down talk with someone who knows better...to help them make things better for themselves.

We are capable here of giving them that sit down talk, but unfortunately I think that too many of us forget that we are talking to people who are honestly clueless, and sometimes our method of delivery simply reinforces their anger and stubborness, instead of making a lightbulb go off in their heads.

Examples of what you can't change:

the temperature of the sun
the earth's rotation
ocean tides
the need for oxygen to survive, although i've questioned whether some people are anaerobic.

Examples of what you can change:

the law!

 

[Proserpina]

You know what irks me about that statement, you KNOW there are cases of injustice and you couldn't care less. That's the system I resent.

A person fighting for and striving for justice and subsequently receives injustice at the hands of the system is ok with you, and, apparently encourged by you, and that irks me even more. That is not what I was taught to accept.

No, Bali. That's not accurate and you know it.

But you know something? Even if it was, "fighting for and striving for justice" is NOT the purpose of these forums.

You want to go that route? Write your congressperson.

You do sometimes give great, accurate, practical advice. But then you often pepper threads with your own bitterness and resentment and that does NOBODY any good - and least of all the OP. It can actually do the OP a grave disservice.

Claiming to be all about justice and the righting of wrongs is all very well and good. But walk the walk. Don't just "talk".

 

[mistoffolees]

You know what irks me about that statement, you KNOW there are cases of injustice and you couldn't care less. That's the system I resent.

Where did I say I couldn't care less? Once again, you really should stick to the facts rather than letting your bitterness run your life.

I certainly care when someone receives injustice. Heck, I've been on the receiving end myself (I just spent an hour being reamed by my ex over the fact that SHE was caught in a traffic jam and that somehow made me selfish and inconsiderate). But I'm also mature enough to realize that no system is perfect. You are free to try to change the system. Or you can live with the results. But your endless rants don't change the system nor do they lessen your injustice. They just muddy the waters and make some people think that the system ALWAYS cheats men - which is entirely false.

No, Bali. That's not accurate and you know it.

But you know something? Even if it was, "fighting for and striving for justice" is NOT the purpose of these forums.

You want to go that route? Write your congressperson.

Or start your own forum whine-about-unfair-divorces.com.