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Long Distance Parenting Questions

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2isbetter

Junior Member
From what I can tell it was a bill by the House, they passed it and so did the Senate, but they sent to the Committee on Families and Children's Services.

Does not look like they made a recommendation on it, so I think it is still just a bill. But I can't remember how this stuff works but if it has passed or will pass before he files, then I doubt they would get time. I am going to have to do some more research on this.

Thanks for the link, and thanks to everybody giving me information.
 


TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
If I am reading this right, paternity has NOT been established. Therefore, guess WHERE is the starting grounds for anything? MICHIGAN. Therefore, DAD will probably be responsible for most the costs involved in parenting time. Now, you could do things to help mitigate the costs, such as maybe finding cheap place where he can stay when in the CHILD'S community.

The grandparents have NO relationship with the child. Therefore, the CHILD would not be hurt in NOT having a relationship. If DAD wants the child to visit the grandparents, then DAD can take the to visit. Or, you could be nice and have the child meet the grandparents when in MICHIGAN.

Especially since dad does all this moving, he probably won't prevail on the YOU caused the distance. If he had stayed in the original location, he might have prevailed with that argument.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
http://www.grandparentsrights.org/analysis.pdf
(a) The love, affection, and other emotional ties existing between the
grandparent and the child.
(b) The length and quality of the prior relationship between the child and
the grandparent, the role performed by the grandparent, and the existing
emotional ties of the child to the grandparent.
The grandparents will fail in this. I recommend reading the ENTIRE document. See - his parents can see the children on HIS time. As a CP, it would be nice if you let them see the grandchild (on your terms) when they are in Michigan.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
Quoting 722.27b
Order for grandparenting time; circumstances; acknowledgment of parentage; commencement of action; procedures; affidavit; notice; opposing affidavit; hearing; basis for entry of order; condition; record; court mediation; frequency of filing complaint or motion seeking order; attorney fees; order prohibiting change of domicile of grandchild; effect of entry of order; modifying or terminating order.
(1) A child's grandparent may seek a grandparenting time order under 1 or more of the following circumstances:

(a) An action for divorce, separate maintenance, or annulment involving the child's parents is pending before the court.

(b) The child's parents are divorced, separated under a judgment of separate maintenance, or have had their marriage annulled.

(c) The child's parent who is a child of the grandparents is deceased.

(d) The child's parents have never been married, they are not residing in the same household, and paternity has been established by the completion of an acknowledgment of parentage under the acknowledgment of parentage act, 1996 PA 305, MCL 722.1001 to 722.1013, by an order of filiation entered under the paternity act, 1956 PA 205, MCL 722.711 to 722.730, or by a determination by a court of competent jurisdiction that the individual is the father of the child.

(e) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (13), legal custody of the child has been given to a person other than the child's parent, or the child is placed outside of and does not reside in the home of a parent.

(f) In the year preceding the commencement of an action under subsection (3) for grandparenting time, the grandparent provided an established custodial environment for the child as described in section 7, whether or not the grandparent had custody under a court order.

(2) A court shall not permit a parent of a father who has never been married to the child's mother to seek an order for grandparenting time under this section unless the father has completed an acknowledgment of parentage under the acknowledgment of parentage act, 1996 PA 305, MCL 722.1001 to 722.1013, an order of filiation has been entered under the paternity act, 1956 PA 205, MCL 722.711 to 722.730, or the father has been determined to be the father by a court of competent jurisdiction. The court shall not permit the parent of a putative father to seek an order for grandparenting time unless the putative father has provided substantial and regular support or care in accordance with the putative father's ability to provide the support or care.

(3) A grandparent seeking a grandparenting time order shall commence an action for grandparenting time, as follows:

(a) If the circuit court has continuing jurisdiction over the child, the child's grandparent shall seek a grandparenting time order by filing a motion with the circuit court in the county where the court has continuing jurisdiction.

(b) If the circuit court does not have continuing jurisdiction over the child, the child's grandparent shall seek a grandparenting time order by filing a complaint in the circuit court for the county where the child resides.

(4) All of the following apply to an action for grandparenting time under subsection (3):

(a) The complaint or motion for grandparenting time filed under subsection (3) shall be accompanied by an affidavit setting forth facts supporting the requested order. The grandparent shall give notice of the filing to each person who has legal custody of, or an order for parenting time with, the child. A party having legal custody may file an opposing affidavit. A hearing shall be held by the court on its own motion or if a party requests a hearing. At the hearing, parties submitting affidavits shall be allowed an opportunity to be heard.

(b) In order to give deference to the decisions of fit parents, it is presumed in a proceeding under this subsection that a fit parent's decision to deny grandparenting time does not create a substantial risk of harm to the child's mental, physical, or emotional health. To rebut the presumption created in this subdivision, a grandparent filing a complaint or motion under this section must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the parent's decision to deny grandparenting time creates a substantial risk of harm to the child's mental, physical, or emotional health. If the grandparent does not overcome the presumption, the court shall dismiss the complaint or deny the motion.

(c) If a court of appellate jurisdiction determines in a final and nonappealable judgment that the burden of proof described in subdivision (b) is unconstitutional, a grandparent filing a complaint or motion under this section must prove by clear and convincing evidence that the parent's decision to deny grandparenting time creates a substantial risk of harm to the child's mental, physical, or emotional health to rebut the presumption created in subdivision (b).

(5) If 2 fit parents sign an affidavit stating that they both oppose an order for grandparenting time, the court shall dismiss a complaint or motion seeking an order for grandparenting time filed under subsection (3). This subsection does not apply if 1 of the fit parents is a stepparent who adopted a child under the Michigan adoption code, chapter X of the probate code of 1939, 1939 PA 288, MCL 710.21 to 710.70, and the grandparent seeking the order is the natural or adoptive parent of a parent of the child who is deceased or whose parental rights have been terminated.

(6) If the court finds that a grandparent has met the standard for rebutting the presumption described in subsection (4), the court shall consider whether it is in the best interests of the child to enter an order for grandparenting time. If the court finds by a preponderance of the evidence that it is in the best interests of the child to enter a grandparenting time order, the court shall enter an order providing for reasonable grandparenting time of the child by the grandparent by general or specific terms and conditions. In determining the best interests of the child under this subsection, the court shall consider all of the following:

(a) The love, affection, and other emotional ties existing between the grandparent and the child.

(b) The length and quality of the prior relationship between the child and the grandparent, the role performed by the grandparent, and the existing emotional ties of the child to the grandparent.

(c) The grandparent's moral fitness.

(d) The grandparent's mental and physical health.

(e) The child's reasonable preference, if the court considers the child to be of sufficient age to express a preference.

(f) The effect on the child of hostility between the grandparent and the parent of the child.

(g) The willingness of the grandparent, except in the case of abuse or neglect, to encourage a close relationship between the child and the parent or parents of the child.

(h) Any history of physical, emotional, or sexual abuse or neglect of any child by the grandparent.

(i) Whether the parent's decision to deny, or lack of an offer of, grandparenting time is related to the child's well-being or is for some other unrelated reason.

(j) Any other factor relevant to the physical and psychological well-being of the child.

(7) If the court has determined that a grandparent has met the standard for rebutting the presumption described in subsection (4), the court may refer that grandparent's complaint or motion for grandparenting time filed under subsection (3) to domestic relations mediation as provided by supreme court rule. If the complaint or motion is referred to the friend of the court mediation service and no settlement is reached through friend of the court mediation within a reasonable time after the date of referral, the complaint or motion shall be heard by the court as provided in this section.

(8) A grandparent may not file more than once every 2 years, absent a showing of good cause, a complaint or motion under subsection (3) seeking a grandparenting time order. If the court finds there is good cause to allow a grandparent to file more than 1 complaint or motion under this section in a 2-year period, the court shall allow the filing and shall consider the complaint or motion. Upon motion of a person, the court may order reasonable attorney fees to the prevailing party.

(9) The court shall not enter an order prohibiting an individual who has legal custody of a child from changing the domicile of the child if the prohibition is primarily for the purpose of allowing a grandparent to exercise the rights conferred in a grandparenting time order entered under this section.

(10) A grandparenting time order entered under this section does not create parental rights in the individual or individuals to whom grandparenting time rights are granted. The entry of a grandparenting time order does not prevent a court of competent jurisdiction from acting upon the custody of the child, the parental rights of the child, or the adoption of the child.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
continued ....
(11) A court shall not modify or terminate a grandparenting time order entered under this section unless it finds by a preponderance of the evidence, on the basis of facts that have arisen since entry of the grandparenting time order or were unknown to the court at the time it entered that order, that a change has occurred in the circumstances of the child or his or her custodian and that a modification or termination of the existing order is necessary to avoid creating a substantial risk of harm to the mental, physical, or emotional health of the child. A court modifying or terminating a grandparenting time order under this subsection shall include specific findings of fact in its order in support of its decision.

(12) The court shall make a record of its analysis and findings under subsections (4), (6), (8), and (11), including the reasons for granting or denying a requested grandparenting time order.

(13) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, adoption of a child or placement of a child for adoption under the Michigan adoption code, chapter X of the probate code of 1939, 1939 PA 288, MCL 710.21 to 710.70, terminates the right of a grandparent to commence an action for grandparenting time with that child. Adoption of a child by a stepparent under the Michigan adoption code, chapter X of the probate code of 1939, 1939 PA 288, MCL 710.21 to 710.70, does not terminate the right of the parent of a deceased parent of the child to commence an action for grandparenting time with that child.
 

2isbetter

Junior Member
New questions

Hope I am doing this right, but I think I am to just continue posting on the same thread.

Quick update, nothing has been established. Father is not on BC, no AOP was signed. Have not heard from the father for several months. Our child is now 19 months old.

I have decided to file to establish paternity, I do understand he can then file for some sort of custody and visitation. I have done fine soley supporting the child, so at this time, I am still not ready to file for child support, I just feel my child deserves to have paternity established, his BC has xxxx's across the father line, I really want that to be changed.

My questions, can I file without an address for dad? If not can I use the last known address I have on him?

I do know for fact he is not living at that address, he owned the home, but not sure if he still does, nor have I been able to find that out. I have no clue to where he is living. I do know he has lived in several states since the child was born, but I have never had an address. His phone no longer works and he did not answer an email I sent him, at the last email address I had contact with him.

I can't find anything on my state or county information about filing with no address or not knowing the location of the parent. So I am at a loss on what to do.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Hope I am doing this right, but I think I am to just continue posting on the same thread.

Quick update, nothing has been established. Father is not on BC, no AOP was signed. Have not heard from the father for several months. Our child is now 19 months old.

I have decided to file to establish paternity, I do understand he can then file for some sort of custody and visitation. I have done fine soley supporting the child, so at this time, I am still not ready to file for child support, I just feel my child deserves to have paternity established, his BC has xxxx's across the father line, I really want that to be changed.

My questions, can I file without an address for dad? If not can I use the last known address I have on him?

I do know for fact he is not living at that address, he owned the home, but not sure if he still does, nor have I been able to find that out. I have no clue to where he is living. I do know he has lived in several states since the child was born, but I have never had an address. His phone no longer works and he did not answer an email I sent him, at the last email address I had contact with him.

I can't find anything on my state or county information about filing with no address or not knowing the location of the parent. So I am at a loss on what to do.
Unless you are willing to have him declared the dad by default, you are going to have to find him to serve him, and then he will have to cooperate (not disappear) regarding a DNA test.

At this point, I am not sure that any of that is in your child's best interest.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
The cheapest way to accomplish this is to have FOC do the filing for you. If you aren't on any aid (think food stamps, medicaid, etc), then it costs you $25.00 per year to use their services. It's the best $25.00 I spend every year.

Forget the "just establish paternity" - GO FOR THE CHILD SUPPORT or don't do anything. It will cause you more headaches in the long run.\

If daddy wants visitation, he'll have to file in Michigan.

For emails, I use a service called readnotify.com. It costs $20.00 to track all emails that are sent. That'll allow you to know if they are getting there, read, but ignored.

Another thing to do is send anything CRRR with a request for address correction on the envelope. If there is a forwarding address, they'll let you know.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
I just wanted to comment on your taking the time to locate this thread and updating it. It is truly appreciated, and we all thank you. :D
 

2isbetter

Junior Member
No I don't want to have him declared by default, thanks didn't occur to me that would be the outcome. I want to give him the chance to object and get a DNA test.

I tried to get FOC to help, they said I had to file myself, since there is no existing case and I am not on state assistance. I pointed to the handbook that says they can open a case for me, and they pointed me to the county clerks office to file myself. Helpful bunch they were.

Thanks for suggesting to send a letter CRRR, didn't think of that. It's possible he still owns the home of the last known address I have. Small town, they don't have the records online, so I got nowhere. I will try the letter, and ask for forwarding address.

The child support, knowing him if I file for that along with paternity, he will then file for custody and parenting time. If I don't, it's possible he won't file for either. I don't want to force him into something or for him to file to get at me for filing for child support. He said he would do that, and that I believe he will. If he files anyways for custody and parenting time, then I will counterfile for support.

I don't know with this new information, I am going to rethink this. I have time, cause I now know that I need to locate him to file. I won't do this by default. Thanks for the help and information again.
 
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stealth2

Under the Radar Member
I tried to get FOC to help, they said I had to file myself, since there is no existing case and I am not on state assistance. I pointed to the handbook that says they can open a case for me, and they pointed me to the county clerks office to file myself. Helpful bunch they were.
You also need to remember that they, like most governmental offices, are running on a lot less money than they were. They're going to focus on serious problems (i.e. abuse, neglect, etc.) before something relatively trivial (not to you, I understand, but in the bigger scheme of things) as an AOP.
 

CSO286

Senior Member
No I don't want to have him declared by default, thanks didn't occur to me that would be the outcome. I want to give him the chance to object and get a DNA test.

I tried to get FOC to help, they said I had to file myself, since there is no existing case and I am not on state assistance. I pointed to the handbook that says they can open a case for me, and they pointed me to the county clerks office to file myself. Helpful bunch they were.

Thanks for suggesting to send a letter CRRR, didn't think of that. It's possible he still owns the home of the last known address I have. Small town, they don't have the records online, so I got nowhere. I will try the letter, and ask for forwarding address.

The child support, knowing him if I file for that along with paternity, he will then file for custody and parenting time. If I don't, it's possible he won't file for either. I don't want to force him into something or for him to file to get at me for filing for child support. He said he would do that, and that I believe he will. If he files anyways for custody and parenting time, then I will counterfile for support.

I don't know with this new information, I am going to rethink this. I have time, cause I now know that I need to locate him to file. I won't do this by default. Thanks for the help and information again.
Federal law (I'm digging in my manual for the cite) requires that IV-D provide the same child support services to you that are available to those on PA, though you migh be charged an application fee.
 

2isbetter

Junior Member
I have an address to file on, more questions

I followed the advice here and tracked an email that he opened and didn't answer. I then sent an email asking why he is reading them and not responding. He did respond to that.

He attached his income taxes. Now he has 3 addresses on the income taxes. One is at the top of the income taxes and it says on the form HOME ADDRESS. He also listed as rental his home in the state he is from. He also listed a business address in this state.

Should I send the motion to establish paternity/custody to all 3 addresses or just the home address on the income taxes?

The home address is in a state that is a 10 hour drive from my home. He also asked for the following:

The last weekend of the month, friday pick up, but no time listed till monday 8pm. He plans on driving to my state for the visit, as he said he will have 2 days of driving that is why he asking to go till monday.
Holidays, he said he is willing to work around my other child's schedule as he does not want to split them up for the holidays.
4 weeks in summer-2 weeks with him and 2 weeks in another state with his parents, who are divorced, so I am assuming 1 week with each.

Here are my issues with what he is asking. The child is 19 months old, he has not seen the child since Aug 2010. He might have come for a visit in Oct or Nov of 2010, I will look through emails and find that out for sure. He was here for several days Dec 2009, 3 visits each 3-4 hours. Aug 2010 visit ended with him storming out and cutting the visit short. So the child does not know him at all at this point.

I'm fine with the holiday part, as that would allow me to keep both children on the same holiday schedule. Every other holiday, and the holiday includes the entire time off from school. So that works fine.

I am not fine at all with the 2 weeks he wants for his parents. They live in another state from him, they have never seen the child, nor contacted the child or me. I am not flying the child out to them. I understand he can do as he pleases with his time, but he can be the one to fly the child out to them. With the age of the child, he will not be able to fly without one of us flying with him.

I am not filing for child support, but would like the court to order medical and daycare and split that according to the state formula. I would also like to ask the court that he pay for transporting the child for parenting time instead of child support.

With all that being said, at this time I am not willing to start a plan like this, as the child does not know him at all, nor does he know the child. I would like some kind of step up supervised plan. Then what he is asking is fine with me, except the 2 weeks with his parents. I would give him 4 weeks in the summer, but if he is choosing to give his parents 2 weeks, he can transport the child there.

Am I being reasonable here? I want to be fair, I want my child to have a relationship with him. But I just feel at this time we need to do some sort of supervised step up plan.
 

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