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marital vs separate assets/marital vs separate debts

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LdiJ

Senior Member
The key case on such matters is In re Marriage of Moore, 28 Cal.3d 366 (1980) from the California Supreme court. [http://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/re-marriage-moore-30599]

Now, if we were to pretend that many years ago a person took a class on such matters and the professor gave a couple problems to the class to see if the case were understood, we might also pretend that computers store much information and it could be found again if searched for. One poor son of a gun's answer might look something like the following:

1. Wanda buys a house in Fresno for $100,000, paying $20,000 down and signing a note (secured by a mortgage) for the $80,000 balance. Thereafter, until her marriage to Harold, Wanda makes mortgage payments that reduce the loan balance by $10,000 (to $70,000). After the marriage, Wanda continues to make the mortgage payments out of her salary until the note is paid in full in 1997. W dies in 1999, leaving a will that devises “all my property” to her nephew Norman. The house is now worth $400,000. Who takes what?

When there is no longer any debt on an installment purchase before marriage, payment with CP funds after marriage, or during marriage W inherits land subject to mortgage, pays off not with CP funds, the Proration or Buy-In rule applies.

The community estate takes a pro rate portion of the property measured by the amount of principal debt reduction attributable to the expenditure of community funds.

Numerator is the principal debt reduction attributable to CP ($70,000) and the denominator is the purchase price ($100,000). Here the CP interest is 7/10 times the value at trial of $400,000 for $280,000 CP.

2. Wanda buys a house in Fresno for $100,000, paying $10,000 down and signing a note (secured by a mortgage) for a $90,000 balance. Thereafter, until her marriage to Harold, Wanda makes mortgage payments that reduce the loan balance by $10,000 (to $80,000). Wanda and Harold are divorced in 2001. At the time of the divorce, the house is valued at $400,000, and the principal balance of the note has been reduced by $20,000 with community funds (Wanda’s salary). Who takes what?

The same rule applies here. The numerator is the principal debt reduction attributable to CP ($20,000) with the denominator the purchase price ($100,000). Here the CP interest ratio is 1/5.

The note is not paid off, however, so we can’t just apply it to the whole house. That would give too much to the Community. In Re Moore now takes the calculation to SP dealing with equity and all that ****. Here, we’ll stay in CP. We must now find how much the house has appreciated in value. We’ll take the CP interest in that and add in any CP funds paid for the total CP interest in the property.

At time of trial the house is $400,000 it was purchased for $100,000 so has appreciated $300,000. (Time of trial value minus purchase price.) We multiply that by the CP ratio (From the principal debt reduction calculated—proration/buy-in rule.) of 1/5 and find the CP interest is $60,000.

The community also directly put in some funds. Here it was $20,000. We add these “DIP” funds (Down payment, Improvements, Principle reduction-subject to the whole other set of rules of CP to SP. But, all problems on the house do not seem to include this calculation although might include “trick” numbers of insurance or taxes.) to our CP portion of appreciation ($60,000) and get a CP interest on the house of $80,000.
That's a good analysis except that more is involved. There is upkeep, taxes, insurance and other items involved in maintaining the marital home. The longer the marriage, the harder to make your kind of calculations fly in a courtroom. During a 30year marriage, for example, more than the original purchase price of the home can end up being spent on maintenance alone.
 


dejr123

Junior Member
Thanks to all for these most informative insights and interpretations of california divorce law with regards to community property and dept. To answer some of the questions asked...Yes I am obviously still married to this woman and please understand that she took care of all the banking,bill paying...cc applications..etc. She would ask me to sign something and I would with out question. I had the utmost trust in my wife and until she left i had no idea of what a financial mess she left me in. My wife had several nervous breakdowns during the last 4 years we were together(living in the same house)..she was hospitalized twice...Her mental health is mainly why I hadnt started divorce procedures till now.
The 2nd on the house was taken out approx 3 years before she left. And the credit card that I got sued for 12,000 was at a zero balance when she left. Although she opened the account while she was still living with me....the 0-12,000.00 charges were all made by her after she left.These charges were not for food or life sustaining necessities. These charges were for trips to Los Vegas, cash advances, video games for HER son....etc. This was all evident in the "bill of particulars" i requested from the cc company...however I was bamboozled by the cc attorneys with regards to me still being married to this woman...community debt etc... and decided to simply settle the case for 5,000.00. I have a question about this debt; even though there has been a judgement in this case....can I still list this as HER debt and ask the court to make her pay the 5000.00 settlement?
As far as my house is concerned.... I purchased it for 70,000. The 2nd on the house was for $50,000.(appraised value at that time was 255,000). I now owe just over 105,000.00 on it..however it is currently valued at 91,000.00(the house is in bad shape!!!)Question?I had planned to list my house as separate property because I owed it before we were married. It increased in value for a short period during our marriage, but because of the vast drop property values a and the current condition of the house...there isn't any equity.
With regards to community property acquired during the 8 years we were together.....No longer exist. For example..I bought a 6000 trailer....She gave it to her daughter without my consent. I bought her a 13,000 mustang cash,.. She wrecked it after she moved out...(she had been taken off my insurance before this accident occurred).I bought 3,000 of new living room furniture....she didnt like it and gave it to her daughter, and put the old furniture back. My point here is that None of the "community property I purchased while we were together is still in existence...to be split up by the court...I assume i should list them anyway?
 

tranquility

Senior Member
LdiJ, you are incorrect. There is no "marital home" in community property. That must be a concept in the marital property states, which is why I keep correcting those who mingle the terms. The legal concepts are not the same. In CA, there is separate property and community property. (Well, and quasi-community property for putative marriage issues.) The other things you mentioned DO NOT CHANGE the calculation. Read the case I supplied. It is still good law. Upkeep and the like do not change ownership.
 

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