MDMA sales charge solicitation

[quincy]

Yep. With rare exceptions.

Out here in CA officers are beginning to treat cocaine, heroin, meth, etc., as we once did marijuana ... ignore it, or, have the offender dump it out. It's a heckuva paradigm shift.

I guess it frees up officers to handle worse crimes ... but why police officers are spending precious resources, and going to the trouble of having undercover police officers at music venues, remains a puzzle.

I hope Barber818 doesn't tell the roommate that the charge is no big deal.

 

[CdwJava]

I guess it frees up officers to handle worse crimes ... but why police officers are spending precious resources, and going to the trouble of having undercover police officers at music venues, remains a puzzle.

A good many of those "worse crimes" go hand-in-hand with dope, so ...

But, narcotics units and task forces still exist. So long as they exist, officers assigned to them have to do their jobs - even if their efforts go unrewarded and unprosecuted. In many instances, it's a PR thing so that agencies, counties, and regions can pay lip service to combating the scourge that is the drug trade. But, politics being what it is, more and more agencies and counties are ceasing the pursuit and prosecution of dope even when it does tend to wrap up additional crimes. I always found it fascinating how property crimes would drop when we'd round up a good chunk of dealers and street users. Now that dope prosecutions are effectively non-existent, property crimes are off the hook.

 

[quincy]

A good many of those "worse crimes" go hand-in-hand with dope, so ...

But, narcotics units and task forces still exist. So long as they exist, officers assigned to them have to do their jobs - even if their efforts go unrewarded and unprosecuted. In many instances, it's a PR thing so that agencies, counties, and regions can pay lip service to combating the scourge that is the drug trade. But, politics being what it is, more and more agencies and counties are ceasing the pursuit and prosecution of dope even when it does tend to wrap up additional crimes. I always found it fascinating how property crimes would drop when we'd round up a good chunk of dealers and street users. Now that dope prosecutions are effectively non-existent, property crimes are off the hook.

I am not surprised that drugs and property crimes are closely linked (or drugs and gun violence). I see this in Detroit.

But Detroit police do not ignore the drug crimes as California officers apparently do, and offenders here are arrested and charged and convicted (although many nonviolent drug offenders will serve out their sentences on tethers rather than in jails).

Whenever you speak about California, Carl, I become not only happier to live in Michigan but also okay about working in Detroit.

 

[CdwJava]

I am not surprised that drugs and property crimes are closely linked (or drugs and gun violence). I see this in Detroit.

But Detroit police do not ignore the drug crimes as California officers apparently do, and offenders here are arrested and charged and convicted (although many nonviolent drug offenders will serve out their sentences on tethers rather than in jails).

Whenever you speak about California, Carl, I become not only happier to live in Michigan but also okay about working in Detroit.

It's not the OFFICERS that created this environment, it's the politicians and mislead voters. When we opted to minimize the penalties in an ill-conceived effort to re-direct offenders into treatment, they similarly removed the incentive to enter into treatment (i.e. the tether). With drug offenders being re-directed out of custody (thanks Sacramento) there is no incentive to enter into treatment that comes with testing, classes, and close supervision in probation. Better to serve a couple of weeks (if any time at all) and serve out informal (unsupervised) probation and continue on your merry way of drugs and crime to support the drugs.

If I could leave CA, I would. But, still a few years from being possible.

 

[quincy]

It's not the OFFICERS that created this environment, it's the politicians and mislead voters. When we opted to minimize the penalties in an ill-conceived effort to re-direct offenders into treatment, they similarly removed the incentive to enter into treatment (i.e. the tether). With drug offenders being re-directed out of custody (thanks Sacramento) there is no incentive to enter into treatment that comes with testing, classes, and close supervision in probation. Better to serve a couple of weeks (if any time at all) and serve out informal (unsupervised) probation and continue on your merry way of drugs and crime to support the drugs.

If I could leave CA, I would. But, still a few years from being possible.

It does sound to be a lawless mess out there.

 

[xylene]

It's a heckuva paradigm shift.

It's been a long time coming to value personal freedom.

 

[quincy]

It's been a long time coming to value personal freedom.

Personal freedom?

Ecstasy's colorful tablets have found their way into elementary schools and middle schools (often given to kids by high school age dealers). I find nothing to applaud with this drug.

 

[CdwJava]

It's been a long time coming to value personal freedom.

If the harm done was limited solely to the user, I'd agree with you. But, it does not. The ramifications of use and abuse extend far, far beyond the user - and not solely in the form of the financial drain imposed upon the private and the public sectors.

 

[xylene]

If the harm done was limited solely to the user, I'd agree with you. But, it does not. The ramifications of use and abuse extend far, far beyond the user - and not solely in the form of the financial drain imposed upon the private and the public sectors.

Those costs are small compared to the costs of aggressively punitive enforcement and incarceration.

Ecstasy's colorful tablets have found their way into elementary schools and middle schools (often given to kids by high school age dealers). I find nothing to applaud with this drug.

I've attended middle school. No one ever gave me drugs. This is a preposterous D.A.R.E scare argument and doesn't actually counter the the real arguments in support of reducing the harm of drugs - the worst harm being the penalties of strict drug prohibition and long custodial sentences that don't even include the drug treatment allegedly justifying them.

 

[quincy]

Those costs are small compared to the costs of aggressively punitive enforcement and incarceration.



I've attended middle school. No one ever gave me drugs. This is a preposterous D.A.R.E scare argument and doesn't actually counter the the real arguments in support of reducing the harm of drugs - the worst harm being the penalties of strict drug prohibition and long custodial sentences that don't even include the drug treatment allegedly justifying them.

Nonviolent drug crimes in Michigan generally result in supervised sentences outside of jails. Offenders wear tethers.

You have not attended middle school for many many many years, xylene.

 

[CdwJava]

Those costs are small compared to the costs of aggressively punitive enforcement and incarceration.

Really?!?!? I'm guessing your experience with users, abusers, and the carnage wrought in their wake is what you see on the news.

I've attended middle school. No one ever gave me drugs.

Lucky you! That's not true in a great many other places - both big and small communities.

This is a preposterous D.A.R.E scare argument and doesn't actually counter the the real arguments in support of reducing the harm of drugs - the worst harm being the penalties of strict drug prohibition and long custodial sentences that don't even include the drug treatment allegedly justifying them.

In most states we really have not had long, punitive sentences for a couple of decades. Certainly not in CA in my nearly 30 year career. Certainly there have been a few states that have hardcore sentences for drugs, but they are in the minority.

And, no, the worst harm comes from the destruction that abuse causes to the user, their loved ones, family and friends, and the community they oten plunder in order to feed a habit.

 

[xylene]

In most states we really have not had long, punitive sentences for a couple of decades. Certainly not in CA in my nearly 30 year career. Certainly there have been a few states that have hardcore sentences for drugs, but they are in the minority.

Only in the mind of a policeman does 2-9 years not seem like a long punitive sentence. Yeah, I mean distribution.

 

[CdwJava]

Only in the mind of a policeman does 2-9 years not seem like a long punitive sentence. Yeah, I mean distribution.

Not sure what state you're talking about, but you may also want to look at the criminal history of that person who got 2-9 years.

 

[xylene]

Nonviolent drug crimes in Michigan generally result in supervised sentences outside of jails. Offenders wear tethers.

You have not attended middle school for many many many years, xylene.

Tethers? And a life long burden of a drug sentence.

Drug dealers don't give away drugs. That's DARE nonsense, that never happened, even when the 'crisis' was allegedly so much worse many many years ago.

 

[quincy]

Tethers? And a life long burden of a drug sentence.

Drug dealers don't give away drugs. That's DARE nonsense, that never happened, even when the 'crisis' was allegedly so much worse many many years ago.

I suppose you are too firm in your beliefs for me to even attempt to convince you of anything else ... so I won't try. I will only say my experiences differ from yours.