Modification???

[cmykds]

What is the name of your state? WI

I haven't posted in a while. To sum up: I have sole legal and physical custody. My X's husband abused our daughter and she stood by him, so she only has supervised visits which she has not exercised since October 10. She did file for modification of the order but it was dismissed by the Judge because she not have any substantial change.

Our Court order only states "Sole Legal Custody and primary physical placement is awarded to father. Mother is to have periods of supervised visitation to be supervised by a nuetral party agreed upon by both parties". It also states that her husband is not to have any contact direct or indirect with either children.

I am wondering she has not made any attempt to see the kids since October 10th. I do allow her supervised phone contact with the kids. I call her so the kids can talk on Saturday's. She calls almost everyday, sometimes 7 or 8 times, but I let the calls go to the answering machine. I originally let the kids speak with her whenever she called, (she started calling everyday in September) but the kids had problems as a result, bed wetting, and behavioral issues, I discussed this with the case manager at the time and it was decided to limit the contact.

I am wondering now, because everytime she talks to the kids she tells them inappropriate stuff, like that she sent them Christmas Presents and I must not have given them to them, or that she is trying to visit with them but I wont let her see them, etc. She knows the calls are monitored and I do end the call each time she says things of this nature, but then the damage is already done and the kids have problems for the next few days.

I am at the point where I do not want to allow the calls any longer, but I am worried that she can then try to say that I am interfearring with her relationship with the kids. Do I need to worry about something like this if there is nothing about phone calls in the court order or do I have to continue to try to be the "bigger person" and sit back and allow her to emotional harm our kids? I document each of the calls and what is said and have since the beginning of 2007.

 

[CJane]

Does the order address telephone contact at all?

 

[cmykds]

Does the order address telephone contact at all?

Nope. Here is the order exactly.

1. Sole Legal Custody is awarded to son and daughter's father [my name]
2. Primary physical platement is awarded to son and daughter's father [my name]
3. Periods of physical platement are awarded to son and daughter's mother [x's name] as follows.
a. x's husbands name shall have no contact, direct or indirect with son and daughter.
b. Mother shall have only supervised placement with son and daughter. The supervisor shall be agreed upon by both parties; the amount of time the children would spend with mother shall be agreed upon by boh parties.
c. It is recognized that _____ county has an ongoing CHIPS action with jurisdiction over he children until February 23, 2008.
d. This order shall be the order of the court beginning February 23, 2008 or any other date that ________ county terminates Juvenile jurisdiction. (CHIPS was terminated Oct. 2007 due to her not following CHIPS order, no one living in _______ county any longer and this family court order being in place which allows the kids to remain protected)
e. Either party may petition the court to change this oder when ________ county terminates juvenile court jurisdiction. (X did and her motion was dismissed because she did not have a substantial change in circumstances)

That's nothing about phone calls or any other contact at all.

 

[Silverplum]

Given your order, and your log of her odious phone behavior, I'd say cut her off.

Nope. Here is the order exactly.

1. Sole Legal Custody is awarded to son and daughter's father [my name]
2. Primary physical platement is awarded to son and daughter's father [my name]
3. Periods of physical platement are awarded to son and daughter's mother [x's name] as follows.
a. x's husbands name shall have no contact, direct or indirect with son and daughter.
b. Mother shall have only supervised placement with son and daughter. The supervisor shall be agreed upon by both parties; the amount of time the children would spend with mother shall be agreed upon by boh parties.
c. It is recognized that _____ county has an ongoing CHIPS action with jurisdiction over he children until February 23, 2008.
d. This order shall be the order of the court beginning February 23, 2008 or any other date that ________ county terminates Juvenile jurisdiction. (CHIPS was terminated Oct. 2007 due to her not following CHIPS order, no one living in _______ county any longer and this family court order being in place which allows the kids to remain protected)
e. Either party may petition the court to change this oder when ________ county terminates juvenile court jurisdiction. (X did and her motion was dismissed because she did not have a substantial change in circumstances)

That's nothing about phone calls or any other contact at all.

 

[CJane]

Given your order, and your log of her odious phone behavior, I'd say cut her off.

Yup, me too. I was actually HOPING there was nothing in the order addressing phone calls.

Cut her off, keep the kids in counseling and if she ever DOES try to make visitation arrangements, given the fact that they're to be supervised AND agreed upon by the parties, I would only agree if the therapist was the supervisor.

 

[LdiJ]

Yup, me too. I was actually HOPING there was nothing in the order addressing phone calls.

Cut her off, keep the kids in counseling and if she ever DOES try to make visitation arrangements, given the fact that they're to be supervised AND agreed upon by the parties, I would only agree if the therapist was the supervisor.

I agree too. However, I would have to know more about the overall case before absolutely stating that only the therapist could be a supervisor. However the supervisor would have to be someone that was in a strong enough position, or have a strong enough personality, to cut the visit short if mom got out of line.

I will NEVER EVER understand someone who backs up a spouse that has abused their child. Although I will admit that some accidents can be misconstrued as abuse, but normally CPS figures that out....often because there is a weeping and wailing parent in the emergency room blaming themselves for what happened.

 

[milspecgirl]

yep

there may be a supervised center somewhere that can supervise the visit that has professionals supervising with rules

 

[cmykds]

Thank you all for your replies. I just have been through so much with the courts, I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I had voiced my concern about abuse throughout the course of the custody evaluation and felt ignored but in hind sight I know know it was really only he said she said at the time.

Her husband intentionally held our daughters hands under scalding hot water for getting marker on them while coloring. The estimate with the extent of ther burns that her hands had to be held under the water for at least 20 to 30 seconds. She was in the burn unit at the hospital for a week and a half. He was arrested and then she helped get him out on bond a month later, and got pregnant again while he was awaiting trial. He got 5 years; 18 months in prison and the rest on extended supervision.

Our daughter has been seeing a therapist since a month after being release from the hospital and has made new disclosures (the worst imaginable kind) and new charges have been filed against him and court proceedings have just started for the new charges. I got a copy of the police report and again she defends him. Her Mom also defended him in the report as well as lied to the police about knowing where my X lives and her phone number, saying she never talks to her and when they showed her my X's phone number she said she didn't know that number. So not only is she standing by him but also her family, her Mom and Grandma, and Grandpa. It's really sick. They all think he is the greastest guy in the world, and I'm somehow the bad guy.

She was supposed to attend couseling alone and with our daughter to understand her victimization, but never did. Our daughters therapist will not meet with her until she is seeing a couselor of her own. She started to went once and said "it didn't work out, because of personal issues"

I have researched and found a visitation center but she refuses, even told the kids after they asked when she was coming to see them, first she said that I will not let her and then I asked if she would like to set something up, she at first changed the subject , and then later told the kids she will come see them when "stangers dont have to watch her".

Even when CPS was supervising the visits during the CHIPS case she would only see them if they transported the kids to her, but always had appointments or some excuse if she was told she'd have to drive here. So on her visits, our case manager would drive 40 minutes here to get the kids then an hour to her apartment visit for an hour then drive an hour back here to drop the kids off and then have to drive the 40 minutes home. Even told our case manager that "that's your job". When she was told that she'd have to start coming here for the visits (our daughter started kindergarden this past fall and all of the driving was not possible, when they wouldn't get home until after 8pm), that's when she stopped seeing them, she visited once in September the week before school, and then not again until October 10 (the week before court to have the CHIPS proceedings terminated), and hasn't since.

 

[CJane]

If it were me, I'd cut off all contact and let the kids go through the entire grieving process. Clearly she's totally toxic to them and they don't deserve that.

Treat it like she died. If she shows up later, deal with it then.

 

[Just Blue]

Thank you all for your replies. I just have been through so much with the courts, I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I had voiced my concern about abuse throughout the course of the custody evaluation and felt ignored but in hind sight I know know it was really only he said she said at the time.

Her husband intentionally held our daughters hands under scalding hot water for getting marker on them while coloring. The estimate with the extent of ther burns that her hands had to be held under the water for at least 20 to 30 seconds. She was in the burn unit at the hospital for a week and a half. He was arrested and then she helped get him out on bond a month later, and got pregnant again while he was awaiting trial. He got 5 years; 18 months in prison and the rest on extended supervision.

Our daughter has been seeing a therapist since a month after being release from the hospital and has made new disclosures (the worst imaginable kind) and new charges have been filed against him and court proceedings have just started for the new charges. I got a copy of the police report and again she defends him. Her Mom also defended him in the report as well as lied to the police about knowing where my X lives and her phone number, saying she never talks to her and when they showed her my X's phone number she said she didn't know that number. So not only is she standing by him but also her family, her Mom and Grandma, and Grandpa. It's really sick. They all think he is the greastest guy in the world, and I'm somehow the bad guy.

She was supposed to attend couseling alone and with our daughter to understand her victimization, but never did. Our daughters therapist will not meet with her until she is seeing a couselor of her own. She started to went once and said "it didn't work out, because of personal issues"

I have researched and found a visitation center but she refuses, even told the kids after they asked when she was coming to see them, first she said that I will not let her and then I asked if she would like to set something up, she at first changed the subject , and then later told the kids she will come see them when "stangers dont have to watch her".

Even when CPS was supervising the visits during the CHIPS case she would only see them if they transported the kids to her, but always had appointments or some excuse if she was told she'd have to drive here. So on her visits, our case manager would drive 40 minutes here to get the kids then an hour to her apartment visit for an hour then drive an hour back here to drop the kids off and then have to drive the 40 minutes home. Even told our case manager that "that's your job". When she was told that she'd have to start coming here for the visits (our daughter started kindergarden this past fall and all of the driving was not possible, when they wouldn't get home until after 8pm), that's when she stopped seeing them, she visited once in September the week before school, and then not again until October 10 (the week before court to have the CHIPS proceedings terminated), and hasn't since.

I really admire how you are handling this...I think if it was my child that some son of a ...(fill in the blank)... hurt I would now be in prison for murder. I also agree with the others...Don't allow phone contact. Unfortunately this is a situation that just SCREAMS for a TPR!! Like LD, I can't understand how a parent can stand behind their spouse when it is proven that he hurt your child...I just don't get it.

 

[cmykds]

I really admire how you are handling this...I think if it was my child that some son of a ...(fill in the blank)... hurt I would now be in prison for murder. I also agree with the others...Don't allow phone contact. Unfortunately this is a situation that just SCREAMS for a TPR!! Like LD, I can't understand how a parent can stand behind their spouse when it is proven that he hurt your child...I just don't get it.

Thank you, but believe me, if he would have still been at the hospital when I got there that day I do not know what would have happened. This whole thing even before that happened has been extremely hard. I grew up in and out of foster care, I know what it is like to be without your parent's I have never wanted that for my kids. I have always tried to keep her involved even after all of this. I still gave her copies of our daughter kindergarden testing, things they have made in pre school and such. She never has asked for any information she never even asked the case manager how the kids were doing, she doesn't even know the name of our daughters school let alone where it is (which is probably good) she has never asked a thing about anything. Our GAL and the case manager and pretty much everyone has said to me that I will have to realize that she is never going to cooperate and will probably just go down in flames right along with her husband. I have finally realized after seeing all my kids have to go through because of her that having 1 good parent is better then two when one of them is as messed up as their Mom is.

 

[CJane]

I don't want this to sound as bad as it's bound to... because I DO think that you're trying to do what you think is right.

BUT... by consistently allowing the mother to have contact with the kids EVEN THOUGH you know it's damaging to them, you're 'standing by' the children's abuser too.

I think you need to show the kids that they can count on YOU to protect them when they couldn't count on anyone else.

 

[Silverplum]

I don't want this to sound as bad as it's bound to... because I DO think that you're trying to do what you think is right.

BUT... by consistently allowing the mother to have contact with the kids EVEN THOUGH you know it's damaging to them, you're 'standing by' the children's abuser too.

I think you need to show the kids that they can count on YOU to protect them when they couldn't count on anyone else.

Seconded completely.
(Why am I always late? )

Dad, here's TPR info, in case you don't already have it:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=grounds+for+termination+of+parental+rights+Wisconsin

http://wsll.state.wi.us/topic/familylaw/tpr.html

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/termWI.php

 

[cmykds]

I don't want this to sound as bad as it's bound to... because I DO think that you're trying to do what you think is right.

BUT... by consistently allowing the mother to have contact with the kids EVEN THOUGH you know it's damaging to them, you're 'standing by' the children's abuser too.

I think you need to show the kids that they can count on YOU to protect them when they couldn't count on anyone else.

I completely understand what you are saying. I have felt that way myself on many occasions. I just get worried because throughout the past 2 1/2 - 3 years it seems that the courts have been the one that determines what it in my kid's best interest, rather then trusting that I as their parent know what is best for them. So I don't want to make a mistake by not allowing her contact and then the courts giving her a modification based on that. I do think and I know that not allowing her contact is what is best for my kids.

It's just hard because I feel that either way my kids are going to be hurt.

 

[DomsMom]

I completely understand what you are saying. I have felt that way myself on many occasions. I just get worried because throughout the past 2 1/2 - 3 years it seems that the courts have been the one that determines what it in my kid's best interest, rather then trusting that I as their parent know what is best for them. So I don't want to make a mistake by not allowing her contact and then the courts giving her a modification based on that. I do think and I know that not allowing her contact is what is best for my kids.

It's just hard because I feel that either way my kids are going to be hurt.

Yes your children are going to hurt either way, but IMO cutting off contact wont hurt them near as long as continually allowing them to be subjected to her BS. I agree with CJane, its going to be hard on everyone for a while, but then again, you've already been through 4 months of her not visiting, so now its time to end the phone conversations also.