Modifying visitations in CA

[tcrouz]

What is the name of your state? California.
My 8 y/o son lives in Albany, NY w/ his mother. I see him 3 # a year... even years spring, half of all summers, and half of winter vacations. I am in the process of going back to court, in May, to try to modify and extend the time he visits our family in CA.
I have been traveling to pick him up, and sometimes to return him, since he was 2 y/o. It has been very difficult as we have not seen him since last summer 07. He loves his family here in California and suffers b/c his mother has not allowed him to fly, as an unaccompanied (UM), to come to see us. He, actually flew as an UM when he was 5 y/o: summer 05. He tolerated it well. However, after that summer she refused to allow him to fly and requested that I go pick him up. This is very difficult to do as it takes 2 days for the entire process, for me, and a full day of traveling for him, to visit us for only 4 to 5 days and that's including the traveling days. Also he has a very difficult time not only adjusting emotionally, but also physically secondary to the travel. I refused to pick him up for his Winter break in 07 because it was too much traveling for the 4 days he would be here. He wanted and was ready to fly here as a UM. However, his mother would not allow this.
Any thoughts on how I should pose this to the judge about this issue? I would like to ask for his visits to be extended during the summer, and every spring vacation. I'm not sure about the winter break? I am representing myself and already have a mediation and court date.
Thanks for your suggestions...

 

[onebreath]

I know your state is CA but the childs jurisdiction is still NY and I don't know the laws there. It sounds like there is a pre-existing court order, and that you were probably the parent who moved away. Part of what you are facing is the burden of the parent who has moved so far away (I know, my family is in NC and we go every year, I know how ardous the trip is).

Do you have a relationship with the mom you can discuss all this? What are your fears? Outside of getting legal help here, I would discuss in depth with personnel at the airlines as to all the protocol, etc for a unaccompanied minor, and exactly how they get dealt with, pull it up in writing.

If it were my child (and its not) I would have serious safety concerns as my understanding is its 2 different plane trips in one directions, so there is a layover, having to negotiate how to get from point a to point b...and be alone the whole time. Its a pretty nervy thing to ask of a younger child. Thats my opinion. Maybe airlines really cater to these situations, in that case I would research different airline policies. I know I have traveling with my 9 year old to NC almost every year and its been a major burden, just like for anyone else who flies...arranged pickups often didn't happen, etc.

Otherwise, research and get documentation on how it works to present in court. I would ask for extra time in the summer. Can you have spring break? Have you looked at your childs school calender to see exactly how long their breaks are? Some can be over two weeks.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? California.
My 8 y/o son lives in Albany, NY w/ his mother. I see him 3 # a year... even years spring, half of all summers, and half of winter vacations. I am in the process of going back to court, in May, to try to modify and extend the time he visits our family in CA.
I have been traveling to pick him up, and sometimes to return him, since he was 2 y/o. It has been very difficult as we have not seen him since last summer 07. He loves his family here in California and suffers b/c his mother has not allowed him to fly, as an unaccompanied (UM), to come to see us. He, actually flew as an UM when he was 5 y/o: summer 05. He tolerated it well. However, after that summer she refused to allow him to fly and requested that I go pick him up. This is very difficult to do as it takes 2 days for the entire process, for me, and a full day of traveling for him, to visit us for only 4 to 5 days and that's including the traveling days. Also he has a very difficult time not only adjusting emotionally, but also physically secondary to the travel. I refused to pick him up for his Winter break in 07 because it was too much traveling for the 4 days he would be here. He wanted and was ready to fly here as a UM. However, his mother would not allow this.
Any thoughts on how I should pose this to the judge about this issue? I would like to ask for his visits to be extended during the summer, and every spring vacation. I'm not sure about the winter break? I am representing myself and already have a mediation and court date.
Thanks for your suggestions...

Your child really is still a bit young to be flying alone, particularly that far. I certainly wouldn't have been happy with that. However, its really up to a judge to decide and I think it could go either way.

You can probably get some more time in the summer, but don't expect to get all of it. Expect that at least a few weeks will remain with mom, so that she can also vacation with the child.

 

[tcrouz]

It was my son's mother who moved to NY after the separation in 02, and before the divorce was final in 04, with my then 2 y/o at that time. So, the jurisdiction is in CA. We would only use non stop flights, so he does not have to change planes and it is a much shorter flight. I would then pick him up in las vegas and then drive back to L.A. Then, repeat the same thing 4 to 5 days later. Thanks

 

[casa]

It was my son's mother who moved to NY after the separation in 02, and before the divorce was final in 04, with my then 2 y/o at that time. So, the jurisdiction is in CA. We would only use non stop flights, so he does not have to change planes and it is a much shorter flight. I would then pick him up in las vegas and then drive back to L.A. Then, repeat the same thing 4 to 5 days later. Thanks

You will go to Mediation. Explain to the Mediator that you are willing to pay the extra fee (typically $70-100) for the child to be 'escorted' by flight staff. Perhaps that will set her mind at ease? If not, explain the situation to the mediator the same as you did here. I don't think the issue is the airplane flight itself, but the DURATION of the flight. It's an awfuly looooong flight w/no relative, friend, etc. Does your budget allow you to fly there & return w/him?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

My daughter has been flying UM now for 4 years (since she was 7). Depending on the airlines, you can do pretty well on prices. The lady we bought the house from had her daughter doing UM to California from Florida. Dad actually lived in Hawaii; he flew to California to pick her up and take her the rest of the way.

I think my daughter is much more independent because she has traveled UM. She knows her way around airports. Knows what to do if separated from a parent (find uniformed personnel).

Sounds to me like MOM is the one with the issues. I have found from all my travels that the children on the plane generally have a blast if they are equipped with "fun" stuff: game boys, books, iPods, etc.

If I had a chance to get free mediation like in California, I would jump all over it. A definite change in circumstance is the child growing up here. It is much different to take a 2 yo on the plane versus an 8 yo.

 

[birdbrain53]

HI

Yes go back to court. Try mediation first with all the facts as you presented them here. If Mom refuses, have the judge make the decision. Yes, kids fly as UM all the time.

The airlines will not allow an UM to fly on connecting flights anyway, just no stop direct flights.

Bird Brain

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

HI

Yes go back to court. Try mediation first with all the facts as you presented them here. If Mom refuses, have the judge make the decision. Yes, kids fly as UM all the time.

The airlines will not allow an UM to fly on connecting flights anyway, just no stop direct flights.

Bird Brain

The rules depend upon the airlines. They can't fly UM younger than 5. My daughter doesn't always get a non-stop, but she doesn't change planes; she'll be allowed to at 12, but not like I would have her do it.

Now, I know that there are services that also 'accompany' children on flights.

 

[tcrouz]

Thank you all so much for your response and support.
It is definitely her own issue. Last time I flew w/ him, in summer 07, there were some kids flying as UM. They were "having a blast." We spoke w/ them. My son was very comfortable w/ the idea of flying to come see us here in CA and having fun on the plane. However, by winter break, she wouldn't allow him to fly as a UM and was requesting that I go pick him up, "or you don't see him." It was the first time that I said, "no more." I'm sad because he and I and our entire family, are the one's who have suffered. That's when I decided to go back to court.
So, yes, I have a mediation date already set, and I'm hoping also to get 2/3 of summer and also modify his visits in spring and winter.
I also found an attorney who may represent me. Depends on her price? I will know more tomorrow. I do feel pretty confident representing myself!!! It's straight forward. I want her to disclose her financial status and recalculate the child support, she has never done this since 2004, and she has always served me every year w/ the FL form, and then of course modify the visits here in CA.
Thanks again...

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you all so much for your response and support.
It is definitely her own issue. Last time I flew w/ him, in summer 07, there were some kids flying as UM. They were "having a blast." We spoke w/ them. My son was very comfortable w/ the idea of flying to come see us here in CA and having fun on the plane. However, by winter break, she wouldn't allow him to fly as a UM and was requesting that I go pick him up, "or you don't see him." It was the first time that I said, "no more." I'm sad because he and I and our entire family, are the one's who have suffered. That's when I decided to go back to court.
So, yes, I have a mediation date already set, and I'm hoping also to get 2/3 of summer and also modify his visits in spring and winter.
I also found an attorney who may represent me. Depends on her price? I will know more tomorrow. I do feel pretty confident representing myself!!! It's straight forward. I want her to disclose her financial status and recalculate the child support, she has never done this since 2004, and she has always served me every year w/ the FL form, and then of course modify the visits here in CA.
Thanks again...

While you may be able to get all of spring break, don't expect to get any more of winter break than you are getting now. A judge isn't going to give you every Christmas...its just not going to happen.

 

[carrie57]

You just need to talk with the mediator and discuss a modification to visitation. My son (custodial parent) lives in NJ and ex lives in CA. Her visitation is Christmas break (the entire break) and all summer (from the day after school gets out until 3 days before he goes back). She doesn't utilize all of that but it is in the papers.

They were told that the amount of her visits could equal up to the same number of days as if they lived in the same state and she had every other weekend and one day a week. That means she is entitled to see him 104 days per year.

She is also responsible for getting him out to see her (whether accompanied or not) and my son is responsible for getting him back home.

These orders were made is Washington State.

 

[tcrouz]

I am going to try to get the visits modified so that my son can be here every entire summer. That would be great!!! I'm wondering if CA law is similar to NJ?
Also, I have heard that judges can have issues w/ parents who are representing themselves. Especially when the other party, my ex, will be represented by her attorney. So, even though I am trying to modify the existing court orders for visitation, and in mediation I think I can get a lot accomplished, I'm thinking about finding an attorney to represent me. Any thoughts? Thanks

 

[carrie57]

I hope you are able to modify the visits. I don't know how judges feel when a person represents themself, however there is alot of research and work you can do yourself to save money with the attorney. You can download all the forms to file and fill them out thereby you will know what the attorney needs and won't waste alot of time (which is money) gathering the information. The attorney is great to have as they know about filing deadlines and all the forms and also can get a continuance if something isn't right which you probably wouldn't be able to do on your own.

Look up what your state feels are the issues for custody and visitation. I do know that in most states the custodial parent must encourage the child to see the Non custodial parent and the courts encourage both parents to be a part of the childs life so summer visitation should NOT be an issue. The wording in my son's papers say "the receiving party" pays for transportation so they each have to pay half for him to visit.

Good luck.

 

[onebreath]

My experience with judges, courts, etc. based on my personal experience and reading tons of posts...is its a crapshoot. Many judges would probably want to warrant at least a 2 week summer visitation to the mom...and then you need to negotiate...beginning or end of summer? Mom probably has her own family she wants child to know...I know from exp its not always easy to coordinate with extended family in another state summer vacation...try to have plans a, b, and c.

Perhaps alternate the christmas holiday around christmas time....and the rest of the time you have the child, and/or alternate years the whole break....show the mediator your willing to be fair and reasonable...
make sure you have plenty of data attached to your declaration about airline policies and children traveling alone.

I'm not savvy to those issues so much...the child traveling alone...but even in county here with me and the dad...the receiving parent picks up....I could see that working out better than you being responsible for the whole trip should mom get her way and the child need one of you traveling with them.

 

[casa]

I am going to try to get the visits modified so that my son can be here every entire summer. That would be great!!! I'm wondering if CA law is similar to NJ?
Also, I have heard that judges can have issues w/ parents who are representing themselves. Especially when the other party, my ex, will be represented by her attorney. So, even though I am trying to modify the existing court orders for visitation, and in mediation I think I can get a lot accomplished, I'm thinking about finding an attorney to represent me. Any thoughts? Thanks

I would caution you NOT to rely on any other state's information. CA can be an 'island unto itself' in Family Law.

Mediation will accomplish most of what you want re; a more reasonable visitation schedule. The Judge's rely heavily on the Mediator's recommendations.

In CA you will not get the entire Summer~ unless the other parent agrees. BOTH parents have the Right to have weekends/holidays/vacations w/the child(ren). You can ask for a larger % than 50% and see if it's agreeable.

The issue with going Pro Se (at least in this state) is that the Judge's expect you to KNOW what you are doing. Law Degree or not. You WILL get chewed on if you are wasting the courts time- just an attorney would.

Know exactly what you are doing/accomplishing. Ask questions before filing. Hire a paralegal at the least to ensure all your documents are complete. IF you can afford an attorney- GET ONE. I would advise NEVER to go against an attorney as Pro Se unless you have a VERY SOLID grip on Family Law.