More vague requirements for "probable cause" when it comes to rape arrests?

[HerNameIsNicole]

And all of this is likely what okayed into the DA's decision to drop the case.

But, rape does not have to be loud, it does not have to involve loud protestations to stop, and can be accomplished in close quarters (I could tell you some true horror stories).

But, the evidence required to establish the probable cause necessary for an arrest is relatively necessary.


They may have tried to scare her. You do not know.

These other ways you speak of are rarely conclusive and still leave a huge hole for reasonable doubt. And I would hate to try and argue the probable cause necessary to seek a search warrant of a possible rape victim's ISP for damning emails. And, that could backfire ... She could just as easily have told all her friends that you raped her.

It is extremely rare that the state will prosecute for a false arrest. Part of the reasoning is the chilling effect it might have on true crime reports. Since the state could not prove that the crime occurred, they are not all that likely to try and prove it did NOT occur. The same lack of evidence will hurt both ways.

aaaaand all of this makes perfect sense. i guess i'm just still bitter that the girl was never punished for what she did, and more importantly that she probably never will be.

Although one of the officers was really trying to help me feel better about being arrested while we sat at the station, and he told me that the medical procedures she was going through were uncomfortable and sometimes painful and she would be spending hours at the facility. I forgot about that....and I imagine that may deter her from doing something like that in the future.

 

[HerNameIsNicole]

No. It is not just custody for Miranda, but an arrest under the fourth amendment--absent "some reasonable justification." And, with 10 cops (Exaggeration, I know.), unlikely.

See:
New York v. Quarles 467 U.S. 649
Unites States v. Purry 545 F.2nd 217
for the handcuffs.

People v. Natale 77 Cal.App.3rd 568
United States v. Parr 843 F.2nd 1228
United States v. Ricardo D. 912 F.2nd 337
for the locked police car.

Both together? Read the cases before we try to come up with what a reasonable justification would be with a large show of force (which could be an arrest too) and a cooperative suspect.

That was all a really interesting read. At first, I thought I had found my argument, but I realize that the nature of the accusation allowed the officers to act as they did without converting a detention to an arrest before announcing one. I would say the detention was an arrest if they were showing up at my house for a disturbance of the peace complaint or something, but this was for a rape accusation. After reading that page, I feel lucky that they didn't come at me with guns drawn. I'm just glad that my blunt honesty when I answered the door kept me from being pushed around and treated horribly along with everything else.

But I will say...as I calmly spoke with the police, (and they were friendly right back) I was cuffed AND placed in the back of a locked police car for what seemed like about 15 minutes. Case law doesn't seem to prove that this was wrong, but I personally have to wonder why about 10 cops (no, that actually ISN'T an exaggeration) thought it was necessary to cuff and lock in a patrol car...an extremely coherent and cooperative suspect with no criminal record, that they had already frisked.

 

[HerNameIsNicole]

It has happened ... at least so far as it has been resolved to address issues of searches and interrogation. I have yet to ever hear of an attempt to convert a detention into a civil rights violation because it also might have met at least one definition of an arrest. But, if the law were cut and dry there would be no need for the courts.

I do have to say...technically my situation met THREE aspects of an arrest, not just one, before I was told that I was under arrest.

Physical touching - frisking

Cuffing

Being place in a locked patrol car

Once I was told that I was under arrest, all the police had to do was drive me to the station.

I know none of that makes a difference to you, but I just wanted to point it out. It sure made a difference to me =P.

But again, I feel lucky they weren't screaming and pointing their guns at me

 

[HerNameIsNicole]

Deadly force would not be appropriate in this situation, but a secure detention is certainly an option even if not required. A prolonged detention will, of course, have to be justified and one would hope that they have sufficient probable cause to support an arrest, or, at least some good solid articulation as to why the detention was so prolonged.

Well, the officers would certainly say that it was prolonged as they waited for the girl to return to identify me. However, there I will point out again that I was being absolutely cooperative and I PERSONALLY gave no reason to suspect that I would not stay put and wait. In fact, I'm not really sure why they waited for the girl to return. I had already given my side of the story which gave way more than reasonable cause to suspect that I was the one that the girl had been physical with earlier and was accusing of rape.

Maybe the officers just wanted to see for themselves how she was acting, like the crying and everything.