Motion to Enforce as opposed to Contempt

[daddenied]

What is the name of your state? CA

Hello Met4 and others who can help. I need some help after speaking to the FLF office in Fresno. This is what the FLF office's attorney stated when I asked for help in filing contempt charges against my ex:

"As for the motion for contempt. This is not recommended. The Family Law Dept. prefers a motion to enforce the judgment prior to filing a contempt. Further, taking the child to counseling without the father's consent is not something to bring a motion about. The mother is the primary custodial parent. Although they do have joint legal custody mom has the final say regarding doctors. etc. Keep in mind that you have a new order and complaining about a violation of an old order may not be viewed favorably"

I was a bit discouraged by reading her reply after having several different Senior Members suggest I file a motion re: contempt. Nonetheless, I am getting help from the FLF office and want to do as they suggest. Since my appointment with them is not for another couple of weeks I wanted to get ahead of the game...what forms would I need to fill out to file a motion to enforce the judgement? Will I have to pay a fee to file such a motion?

BTW, the FLF office should receive my signed motion to modify and change the name of the agency for the therapy for me and my children on Wednesday. The FLF office attorney said she would set date of hearing (possibly 6 weeks away ) and serve my ex. I am anxious to get the filed paperwork back with the hearing date and wish it could be sooner. My ex continues to tell me that she will not have our children meet with me at the therapists' agency I found through my insurance. It looks like even if the courts do change the agency to the place I found and is covered under my insurance, it won't be until at least Sept. 17th before I see my children in therapy. That is about 6 1/2 weeks away. And, I am sad now that our 12 sessions will now go into the holidays.

Just wanted to update you. Thanks!

Daddenied and at times discouraged.

 

[legalcuriosity]

What is the name of your state? CA

Hello Met4 and others who can help. I need some help after speaking to the FLF office in Fresno. This is what the FLF office's attorney stated when I asked for help in filing contempt charges against my ex:

"As for the motion for contempt. This is not recommended. The Family Law Dept. prefers a motion to enforce the judgment prior to filing a contempt. Further, taking the child to counseling without the father's consent is not something to bring a motion about. The mother is the primary custodial parent. Although they do have joint legal custody mom has the final say regarding doctors. etc. Keep in mind that you have a new order and complaining about a violation of an old order may not be viewed favorably"

I was a bit discouraged by reading her reply after having several different Senior Members suggest I file a motion re: contempt. Nonetheless, I am getting help from the FLF office and want to do as they suggest. Since my appointment with them is not for another couple of weeks I wanted to get ahead of the game...what forms would I need to fill out to file a motion to enforce the judgement? Will I have to pay a fee to file such a motion?

BTW, the FLF office should receive my signed motion to modify and change the name of the agency for the therapy for me and my children on Wednesday. The FLF office attorney said she would set date of hearing (possibly 6 weeks away ) and serve my ex. I am anxious to get the filed paperwork back with the hearing date and wish it could be sooner. My ex continues to tell me that she will not have our children meet with me at the therapists' agency I found through my insurance. It looks like even if the courts do change the agency to the place I found and is covered under my insurance, it won't be until at least Sept. 17th before I see my children in therapy. That is about 6 1/2 weeks away. And, I am sad now that our 12 sessions will now go into the holidays.

Just wanted to update you. Thanks!

Daddenied and at times discouraged.

Sir, I have no advice to add, just encouragement. It's a long process and extremely frustrating. Keep fighting!

 

[rmet4nzkx]

A part of the problem is that the FLF attorney is getting things third hand instead of directly from you. In part the information they are getting is filtered by the person you have talked to since you haven't met with them first. The thing is that the motion's for contempt are ones that were to have been made and brought previously by your attorney who informed you that certain things were to take place and did not. Did you request your papers from your attorney yet?

You will need to frame the motions for contempt and sanctions appropriately based on the facts at the time in question. While it might be the policy of the FLF office to do a motion to enforce, which they may assist you with if it were simply a matter of failing to obtain your consent in a timely manner, that is one thing, but in this case CP failed to inform you and intentionally not only hid the fact that there was therapy, without your MANDATED KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT and also falsley claimed your son was suicidal as a means to illegally obtain therapy without your consent based on waiver in rules of confidentiality, when there is no evidence he was suicidal. If he were suicidal, Standard of care and in turn mandated reporting found in the Evidence code:

1024. There is no privilege under this article if the
psychotherapist has reasonable cause to believe that the patient is
in such mental or emotional condition as to be dangerous to himself
or to the person or property of another and that disclosure of the
communication is necessary to prevent the threatened danger.

1027. There is no privilege under this article if all of the
following circumstances exist:
(a) The patient is a child under the age of 16.
(b) The psychotherapist has reasonable cause to believe that the
patient has been the victim of a crime and that disclosure of the
communication is in the best interest of the child.

The records are not priviledged and require documentations, thus you as a parent should have been notified even if your ex didn't inform you. None of which was done. Your ex even went so far as to have paid privately for therapy when insurance would have paid for it, in fact, paid for part of it, to hide the fact, perhaps because she falsely informed the therapist that she had SOLE custody and therefore did not require your consent for therapy. If your son was suicidal, you should have been informed in a timely manner at least after the fact as per EC 1024. This was intentionally done to deny you your court ordered visitation and addition to your rights to be informed of medical treatment under joint custody. So the motion for contempt and sanctions would cover both failure to inform/consent re therapy and interfering with visitation. Perhaps you can throw in perjury as well.

What progress have you made re communication with the prior therapist? Have you sent them a letter also showing your JONT custody, a signed waiver? Have you tried to leave a phone message? Have you subpoenaed the records?
CALIFORNIA CODES
EVIDENCE CODE
SECTION 1560-1567
1560. (a) As used in this article:
(1) "Business" includes every kind of business described in
Section 1270.
(2) "Record" includes every kind of record maintained by a
business.
(b) Except as provided in Section 1564, when a subpoena duces
tecum is served upon the custodian of records or other qualified
witness of a business in an action in which the business is neither a
party nor the place where any cause of action is alleged to have
arisen, and the subpoena requires the production of all or any part
of the records of the business, it is sufficient compliance therewith
if the custodian or other qualified witness, within five days after
the receipt of the subpoena in any criminal action or within the time
agreed upon by the party who served the subpoena and the custodian
or other qualified witness, or within 15 days after the receipt of
the subpoena in any civil action or within the time agreed upon by
the party who served the subpoena and the custodian or other
qualified witness, delivers by mail or otherwise a true, legible, and
durable copy of all the records described in the subpoena to the
clerk of the court or to the judge if there be no clerk or to another
person described in subdivision (c) of Section 2026 of the Code of
Civil Procedure, together with the affidavit described in Section
1561........

Background

State law provides that all information obtained in the course of providing mental health services is confidential and cannot be released without valid patient authorization or an accompanying court order. One exception is that such information may be released "to the courts as necessary to the administration of justice." Welfare & Institutions Code §5328(f). Therefore, providers should honor a subpoena requiring them to forward psychiatric records upon appropriate waiver, subpoena or court order.

Patient's Consent(minor parent) to the Disclosure of Mental Health Records and Waiver of Evidentiary Privileges

Court Order:A document signed by a judge of a court directing a specific action such as the disclosure of specified patient information.

Subpoenas: A command to appear at a certain time and place to give testimony or to produce documents upon a certain matter. May be issued either in a civil or criminal case.

Subpoena Duces Tecum: Issued to have records or documents produced for inspection.

Service of Subpoena

All subpoenas must be delivered in person, except those for a criminal proceeding in a California court or for an administrative proceeding before a California state governmental agency. Criminal subpoenas may also be served by regular mail or by messenger, whereas administrative subpoenas may be served by certified mail or by messenger {California Penal Code § 1328d}. Subpoenas for mental health records must be served upon the Custodian of Records (provider) Subpoenas for mental health providers to appear and testify must be personally served on the provider named in the subpoena.

Subpoena Forms

A. Civil Subpoena (see Attachment 1) - The Civil Subpoena is the basic form and is used only in the context of an actual trial; it is not used for any pretrial discovery. It can be used as follows:

1. To compel personal attendance at a trial for the purpose of giving testimony only or producing original records or copies.

2. To compel production of copies under the alternative response procedure during a trial.

B. Deposition Subpoena for Personal Appearance

This form is used only when personal attendance of the witness is required at a deposition. It can be used when oral testimony alone is required, or when the witness is being asked to bring records (in either original or copy form) and to testify concerning their authenticity. [CA Code of Civil Procedure §2020 (c), (e)]. In order to be valid, a subpoena calling only for personal attendance must be accompanied by an affidavit or declaration.

C. Deposition Subpoena for Production of Business Records

This form is used when the custodian is required to do any of the following:

1. Copy records and send to the designated address.

2. Make originals available for copying by a legal photocopying service or other agent of the subpoenaing attorney at the custodian's place of business, using equipment belonging to the photocopy service or agent.

IV. Accepting a Subpoena

A facility receiving a subpoena for psychiatric records may respond only if the subpoena requires that the records be released directly to the court, unless the subpoena is also supported by either a court order or a valid written authorization. Personnel assigned the responsibility for accepting a subpoena should review the subpoena carefully to make sure that it is valid.

1. Verify that service is correct.

--Personal service except for criminal proceedings in a state court

2. Verify presence of affidavit or declaration if subpoena is for personal appearance at a trial, a deposition, or a state administrative proceeding.

3. Verify that the patient whose records are being requested has been a patient in this facility.

--Request additional identifying information, if needed.

4. Check subpoena for validity (photocopy acceptable).

a. Issuing entity.

b. Signature present.

--Typewritten signature acceptable

c. Documents requested described.

d. Type of response indicated.

--Request witness fee for one (1) day and mileage, if personal appearance required

--Request "on call" status for trial, in lieu of appearing at the time stated on the subpoena.

e. Date and time for response noted.

f. Location stated.

V. Proof of Service to Patient (Applies to State Civil Proceedings only)

Verify the presence of proof of service, showing that the client has been provided a copy of the subpoena duces tecum and the Section 1985.3(c) notice. This notice informs that client or attorney that the records are being subpoenaed. Under California Code of Civil Procedure 1985.3(b), if a subpoena seeks medical records in civil proceedings before the California courts, it must be accompanied by a copy of the proof of service to the client informing the client or his/her attorney that his/her records are being subpoenaed, that the client must file papers with the court prior to the date production is due if there is objection to such production, and that the client should consult an attorney if the party subpoenaing the records will not cancel or limit the subpoena.

cont.....

 

[rmet4nzkx]

VI. Responses to Subpoenas

B. When There Is A Court Order Requiring Disclosure

The client's mental health provider/ clinician may review the chart. The clinician may selet notes that he/she does not want to release {i.e., notes referring to other clients (such as group therapy sessions) and all confidential information provided by the client's family members}.

Inner Envelope -- Records and declaration must be enclosed in an envelope and sealed. The outside of this inner envelope must be identified as follows:

(1) Title of Action, e.g., Doe vs. Wade

(2) Number of the action, e.g., No. D-2000

(3) Name of witness, e.g., name of custodian of records

(4) Date that the subpoena was issued

b. Outer Envelope -- The sealed and labeled inner envelope must then be enclosed in an outer envelope and identified, depending on destination of the records.

(1) Production at Court

(a) Clerk of court (or judge, if no clerk)

(b) Name of the court

(c) Address of the court

(2) Production for Deposition

(a) Sealed and enclosed as above, addressed to the deposition officer

C. When The Subpoena is Accompanied by Client Written Authorization (proper):

If the subpoena is accompanied by a written authorization from the client, the clerical staff at the clinic will follow the same procedure as release of information:

The person responsible for reviewing the chart should clip the pages on the information that cannot be disclosed. Any information given in confidence by a family member can be removed from the medical record before access or copying is provided [CA W&I Code 5543 (a)]

For copying (whether appearance required or not): Charge $0.10 per page to the subpoenaing party for copies of documents plus $4.00/qtr hour for up to $16.00 per hour for regulated search/retrieval fee. (Evid. Code §1563, CCP §2929(f)). When the requesting attorney uses a professional copy service to act as their agent, $15.00 fee applies.

Clarification on Service of Subpoenas for Personal Appearance:

1. Generally, subpoenas for mental health providers to appear and testify must be personally served on the provider named in the subpoena.

2. If an employee wants to authorize another employee (s) to accept service on his/her behalf, the employee may do so.

3. If a person attempts to serve a subpoena on an employee who is not available and who has not authorized someone to accept service, clinic staff may tell the person serving the subpoena to leave a copy of the subpoena, and they will attempt to get the subpoena to the person named in the subpoena.

Lanterman Petris Short Act
The LPS Act (CA Welfare and Institutions Code Sec. 5328) provides a greater level of confidentiality for medical information relating to diagnosis or treatment for mental illness or developmental disabilities. It applies to psychiatric information held by licensed facilities, whether public or private, that admit patients for psychiatric care on either a voluntary or involuntary basis. If a patient's medical record also contains information pertaining to care for substance abuse in a program subject to federal regulation, the federal regulation takes precedence over the LPS Act. The LPS Act applies to alcohol abuse care that is not subject to federal regulations.

III. Definitions

A. "Mental health records" means patient records, or discrete portions therof, specifically relating to evaluation or treatment of a mental disorder. "Mental health records" include, but is not limited to, all alcohol and drug abuse records.

B. "Patient records" means records in any form or medium maintained by, or in the custody or control of, a health care provider, relating to the health history, diagnosis, or condition of a patient, or relating to treatment provided or proposed to be provided to the patient. "Patient records" includes only records pertaining to the patient requesting the records or whose representative requests the records. "Patient records" does not include information given in confidence to a health care provider by a person another than health care provider or the patient, and such material may be removed from any records prior to inspection or copying under CA Health and Safety Code Section 1795.12 or 1795.14.

C. "Patient's representative" means a parent or the guardian of a minor who is a patient, or the guardian or conservator of the person of an adult patient, or the beneficiary or personal representative of a deceased patient.

IV. Need for Proper Authorization to Release Information (The provider may provide a specific form)

A. Disclosure of Information

In most circumstances, (exceptions are described under Section V) the disclosure of information obtained in the course of providing mental health services is not permitted without the patient's informed written consent and the approval of the patient's mental health practitioner. Release of confidential information without patient consent is permitted only in very limited and specific circumstances.

B. Medical Information from Other Providers

Patient information received from outside providers must be disclosed in the same manner as records originated in the client chart when demanded by subpoena, a request from patient access, a request for disclosure to an attorney under California Evidence Code §1158, or any other disclosure required by law or for any other mandatory disclosure. The provider reviews the description of the records required; if it indicates that any and all records are demanded, then full disclosure is necessary this is what you will ask for, there is a charge for copying. If the description does not cover the period covered by the records from an outside source, disclosure is not required.

C. Valid Releases

An authorization must be obtained for each separate information disclosure. The consent form must meet the statutory requirements. Authorizations may be revoked at any time by the patient either in writing or verbally.

If a release comes in that is not in the format shown above, it still may be valid. The general requirements of authorizations for release of information are listed below. If an authorization to release does not meet these criteria, it may not be honored.

1. Written or typed.

2. Clearly identifies the patient and the information requested.

3. Clearly identifies the facility from which information is to be released.

4. Clearly identifies the persons or facilities to receive the information.

5. Identifies all purposes for which the disclosed information will be used.

6. Specifies how long the release will be valid.

7. States that the patient received a copy of the release after signing it.

8. Is signed by the patient or an authorized patient representative.

In other words the release doesn't have to be on their release form but they may insist you use their form as a delaying tactic.

You may include in your motion to change the therapist, that the original timeline be honored indofar as therapy since EX intentionally perjuered herself re the schedule for the children and requiring Sat appointmments at the agency knowing they did not do therapy on Sat. Perhaps double sessions could be scheduled to make up the therapy time and that your therapy time be honored so there would not be the 7 week delay. Also make sure the next court dates are scheduled.

 

[daddenied]

Worried right now...

1. Actually, we only spoke to the receptionist lady that first day and once over email. The rest of the correspondence has been between me and the FLF attorney over the phone, through email and also fax. She stated that their office is only doing this one time type of help with me due to it being complicated (filing the motion to change the agency, etc…). I explained all of that to her about the attorney and when the motions for contempt should’ve been done, but her reply was still that the Fresno courts would frown upon my bringing it up now that there is a new order. ???? Yes, I sent a letter to my attorney, as well as called and left a message and this week just faxed him the same request. I also sent him the substitution of attorney, because the FLF office said he needed to sign it before I filed it. ??? I’m a little worried about that since the FLF office will be filing my motion before the end of this week.

2. The therapist who saw my son without me consent emailed me on Friday last week saying she received my last request which I sent by fax that same day, but states she never received the previous requests. Hmmm…sounds fishy to me, but giving her the benefit of the doubt…she also stated she is out of town and when she gets back she will reply to all of my questions, and get back with me. How long she’ll be out of town? I don’t know. What length of time should I wait before having the records subpoenaed? I don’t want to seem unreasonable. Prior to this last fax I called her several times (maybe 4) and sent her 2 actual letters through the USPS. She is in receipt of the order showing joint legal custody…the original one and the current one.

3. Yes, my ex is actually now saying that she did not bill my insurance (which is court ordered that I cover our children) and she billed her own insurance. She also stated that her insurance denied the claim saying it was a pre-existing condition. ????? I’ve asked what the heck she is talking about…WHAT pre-existing condition…my insurance covers 22 sessions a year for any type of mental health concerns. That inquiry has gone unanswered.  I can’t remember if I told you this, but she also said that she paid out of pocket for the 22 visits our son saw this therapist, which came out to $900+ and I should be overjoyed that she did not bill me $450+ that I owe. Whatever the case, none of this sounds right, because if you knew my ex-wife she would never NOT bill me for my portion ASAP! Second, during the time frame she states that our son saw this therapist, our relationship through correspondence was one that was amicable and in the cooperative co-parenting spirit. I recall her complaining about how expensive her health insurance was to cover just her and that she was glad I had coverage for the boys. Hmmm…anyway, that’s beside the point. I’ve also asked the therapist to furnish me with all bills, invoices, and statements for these supposed visits.

4. I asked the FLF attorney about perjury charges while talking about the other contempt issues and she frowned on that too saying the Fresno courts would not like that. She also stated that in Fresno, I cannot file contempt unless I file for the courts to enforce, therefore according to her opinion would be a moot point at this time, because of the new order as of 7/1/05.

5. I mentioned to the FLF attorney about including honoring the original time line, but she said since it had already been typed up, for me to just bring it up in court at the hearing. ??? She stated that as soon as she received the signed motion which will be tomorrow she will set a court date (I don’t know if that means SHE will set it or file the paperwork for me and get me a court date as I would if I were actually filing it in person…???) and she said she would serve my ex and send me a copy of everything. I know this is long, but I wanted you to see what she put in the motion…

Notice of Motion for Modification for “other” modify the location of the therapeutic visits.

On form FL-310

#9 OTHER RELIEF (specify):

“Modify the order entered on July 1, 2005 which states that the Family Court Services Report and recommendation dated 6-28-05 is made the order of the court as modified- 3.03 father to have therapy sessions with children at CYS July 8th, 22nd, August 13th and every other Saturday after that (12 sessions).

#10 FACTS IN SUPPORT of relief requested…

“The parties attended mediation on June 23, 2005. The proposed order from the mediator state at – 3.03 that: “the father shall visit with the children in a therapeutic setting in Fresno County with a licensed mental health clinician, or an agency such as name and # or CYS (place my ex is insisting on services). In the event of a disagreement regarding the selection of a mental health clinician or agency, the mother shall select said provider within 15 days of signing of this court order.” In court on July 1, 2005 judge pro tem (name) made a few modifications to the proposed order and stated via minute order that: “Family Court Services Report and recommendation dated 6-28-05 is made the order of the court as modified-3.03 father to have therapy sessions with children at CYS July 8th, 22nd, Aug. 13th and every Saturday after that (12 sessions). “See Attached minute order. Judge pro tem (name) then signed the proposed order making it the Order of the court as modified. See Attached Order. The modifications were made because petitioner indicated that she had already contacted CYS to do the visits so Judge (name) specifically indicated that the visits would take place at CYS. Also respondent lives in Long Beach so he requested the visits be on Saturdays.

The order can not be followed. Respondent contacted CYS to confirm and set up the visits and was informed that CYS does not conduct therapeutic visits on Saturdays. Please see attached email from (name) of CYS confirming this. Please also see attached a letter from CYS (program manager name) stating the same. (Name) also confirmed that CYS does not bill any insurance agency. According to the court order the Respondent is responsible for the costs of the visits. See Order – 3.03. Respondent has insurance available that will pay for the visits. The Respondent requests that the location of the therapeutic visitations be changed since they cannot offer as ordered at CYS. Respondent requests that the visits be held on Saturdays as previously ordered. Respondent suggests that the visits take place at (name of agency). Respondent has called around and this agency is able to conduct therapeutic visits on Saturdays and will accept the respondent’s insurance. Respondent has made attempt to get the Petitioner to agree to the change of location for the visits but she refuses to agree. Please see attached email letters (6 dated from July 6th through July 19th) sent to the Petitioner informing her the CYS does not provide the service ordered by the court and that another provider has been found. Please also find attached a response from the Petitioner indicating she will not use another agency but CYS. Therefore, the respondent is requesting a modification of the current order.”

Sorry I know that was long, but wanted you to see it. I asked about the holidays since now by the time the sessions start up, hopefully where I am asking them to be, the visits will go into the holidays. The FLF attorney said to bring it up at the hearing. I am worried…

 

[daddenied]

thank you

Sir, I have no advice to add, just encouragement. It's a long process and extremely frustrating. Keep fighting!

Thank you. I appreciate your kind words...it's tough when the only kind words I can get is on a forum such as this.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Thank you for printing the text of the proposed motion.

The FLF doesn't want to write a lot of motions for you and you are lucky to get them to write this one. Remember when you were in court you asked about the other motions and then found out your attorney didn't file the motions so the court asked you to file them, so in this case they are expecting them, so go ahead and file them yourself once you have the court date. as there will be evidence within the current motion which shows a history of contempt when they look at the orders and your ex's actions they will see what is going on. When you frame the motion, use the same FL form and reminf the court that you were directed to make the motions and calendar them for a future court date. Also bring up the fact that she failed to inform the school that you had joint custody so the school wouldn't provide you with info.

Again, the therapist stuff will not look good for your ex. She could have gotten the the therapy visits approved if she had informed you, afterall she did bill some of them, she is responsible for the payments, it was her own fault and choice to be in contempt. She paid because she was hiding the therapy, most likely your son was upset about the divorce because of her, not you, that is why she is comming up with all this other garbage to deflect from the real reason. If he was suicidal, there should have been documentation and she would have filed for modification herdelf. Do you know the name of her insurance? You might have to subpoena the billing records, if she won't provide them. You may need a court order for this, she could claim privilege, but she would have no privilege in this case since it is for 3rd party billing records and also that she is seeking relief based on "mental health" issues. Contact the therapist to see when she will return.

As to the proposed motion, where it says "The modifications were made because petitioner indicated that she had already contacted CYS to do the visits so Judge (name) specifically indicated that the visits would take place at CYS. Also respondent lives in Long Beach so he requested the visits be on Saturdays." You might want to amend it slightly.

The modifications were made because petitioner indicated that she had already contacted CYS to do the visits on Saturdays, because of the children's sports schedules, so Judge (name) specifically indicated that the visits would take place at CYS. Also respondent lives in Long Beach so he requested/agreed the visits be on Saturdays.

Even if you were to go to CYS wasn't there a waiting list of several months so they could not accommodate the court ordered therapy that was to begin immediatly, at all?

 

[daddenied]

- Yes, the FLF attorney made it very clear that I was lucky and only because it was a complicated issue they were doing this. She said they will only write up motions for people who come into their office in person armed with all supporting documents.


-And, yes I will file the motions that the courts directed me to file after finding out my attorney didn't do what he said he would do.


- I've been discussing my madness so long I can't remember if I told you how I first found out about the therapy. In my ex's response to the motion for the July 1st hearing was included a letter dated Apr. 2004 from the therapist who saw our son. This letter was very short and I don't have it right here with me, but it said something like...

"(son's name) has been seeing me for counseling from Apr. 2003 through Apr. 2004 for a total of 22 sessions. (son's name) was in therapy due to distress over his parents recent divorce and separation. (Son's name) has also expressed some distress when visiting with his father..."

That was pretty much all the letter stated. Of course you know my ex stated that our son had to see this therapist because he was suicidal. ??? I had been puzzled since from Apr. 2003 through Nov. 2003 all my visits with our children had been in their own home in the company of their mother, when she was being civil and not lying all the time...In Dec. 2003 the kids came down and spent New Years with me over their break for a week and 6 of those 7 days we were all sick in bed at my parents home being nursed by my mother. Jan. 2004-Apr. 2004 this particular son visited with me 3 times in LA County and we had a great time with each other...I don't recall any incidents at all. Therefore, I was totally confused with the letter from this therapist. I'm still leaning toward the idea that my ex and this therapist are friends or acquaintances. Is that possible or am I just being paranoid? I will try to call this therapist tomorrow to find out when she will be back in town.


-It's funny that you mention insurance. Sorry...this is going to be along one again. Earlier in the month I received an email from my ex and was unable to respond until this past weekend. This is a copy of my faxed message to her:
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Dear (ex's name),

This is in response to your email message dated July 22nd @ 9:04am which stated:

”The boys attended the dentist prior to the court hearing for a cleaning and check-up. All 4 boys had fillings. The claim has yet to be paid because our two insurance companies are fighting over who will pay. According to law, unless ordered by the court, the rule of thumb is that the parent whose birthdate falls first in the year (i.e. mine in August, yours in October) will be the insurance that covers the claim. I will fax you a copy of the outstanding bill once I locate it, there are still many boxes to unpack since our move this month.”

Why would our insurance companies be fighting over these claims? Did you forget that it IS court ordered that I cover our children? Therefore, the law applies here that my insurance company pay their claims. Please send me documentation of this supposed fighting between our insurance companies so that I can check into this. If you have insurance, wouldn’t they be considered the co-insurance and pay the balance of what is left? Why would you be paying for medical or dental insurance through your employer when you know that 1) it costs me nothing to cover all of our children and 2) it IS the order of the court from our original divorce decree agreement that I cover our children. If it’s free for you to cover our children, then having double coverage can’t hurt, but if not, you may want to reconsider just having yourself covered by your plan. Do we have to furnish a copy of the court order from Dec. 2002 to Delta Denta to pay on these claims or have you already done that? I will check with Delta Dental next week regarding these claims, but please send me any and all bills, statements or invoices from the all the boys’ visits to any medical, dental or mental health providers since Apr. 2003. I need this information as soon as possible and think 14 days is sufficient enough time for you to provide me with these especially since our children are all supposedly out of town visiting your family. You should have more than enough time to find all of these documents and forward copies to me. It seems these types of records and documents regarding our children’s health would be important enough to be in a marked box or filing cabinet for easy access even in a move. I will also be requesting this same information from the providers myself, but remember that it is the court’s order that YOU furnish me all of this information. Have a good day.
----------------------------------------------------------------
This is her response I got today with my comments to you in CAPS:

"Your newfound intrigue with prior year medical/dental/counseling billings is amusing, although I’m not entirely sure how funny the court will find it. (I NEVER HAD TO ASK IN THE PAST BECAUSE SHE WAS NEVER THIS WICKED AND DISHONEST...I COULD TRUST HER)

Sending daily e-mails and FAXes full of frivolous, inconsequential and repetitive inquiries can indeed be considered harassment. (I MAKE IT A POINT TO EMAIL ONLY ONCE A WEEK ASKING VALID QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR CHILDREN AND WHEN SHE DOESN'T ANSWER THEM, I EMAIL AGAIN ASKING HER TO REPLY TO THEM, BUT ONLY ONCE A WEEK. ANY OTHER CORRESPONDENCE FROM ME ARE DIRECT REPLIES TO MESSAGES SHE SENDS ME. I LAST EMAILED HER LAST WEEK FRIDAY SINCE THAT IS THE DESIGNATED DAY...NOT SURE WHAT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT "DAILY EMAILS")

This latest FAX and accompanying barrage of questions is a perfect example of the utter ridiculousness of your feigned concern. (BARRAGE OF QUESTIONS!? I WAS ASKING QUESTIONS THAT COULD HELP US CLEAR UP THE INSURANCE COMPANIES DENIAL OF CLAIM PAYMENT)

#1 Until today, I didn’t realize that a routine appointment – that had not generated a bill – could be considered “urgent”. NOWHERE ON MY FAXED LETTER DID I REFER TO THE MESSAGE AS URGENT ?????

#2 My decision to have insurance coverage is none of your business. (???? THIS LADY IS UNBELIEVABLE!)

#3 If you are concerned about insurance policies and procedures call and speak to an insurance representative.
(????? )

#4 I do not have any billing materials, invoices, or other paperwork which needs to be maintained, much less forwarded. Rest assured, per the court order, all significant communications will be forwarded, posthaste.
(THE COURTS ORDER IS THAT SINCE SHE IS CP SHE IS TO PROVIDE ME W/ANY AND ALL INFORMATION ON OUR CHILDREN THAT I REQUEST)

I again recommend that you stop playing games, wasting time, and redirect your energies to repairing your relationship with the boys. Stop this absurd inundation of correspondence, call C.Y.S. and schedule your orientation.
(SHE IS STILL STUCK ON CYS EVEN WHEN I AND THEY HAVE INFORMED HER THEY CANNOT ACCOMODATE THE ORDER ????)
----------------------------------------------------------------
No, I have no idea who insures her... just that when we were on civil terms in 2003 she complained much about it and not having enough money to pay for her own premiums...???? and was grateful I had excellent coverage for nothing.


-I just emailed the FLF attorney asking her to slightly amend those two sentences...thank you. I plan on calling her in the morning too. She should receive it tomorrow and I hope it doesn't pose a problem to amend it.


- Yes, there was a 4 month waiting list with the first possible visit at CYS "Mon-Fri only" some time in November if I signed up after the hearing. The waiting list was for people who don't have money like me and who would be using their sliding scale fee. CYS said they could actually schedule therapeutic visitations (during the week only) asap after I signed up and attended their orientation but I would have to pay out of pocket about double of what my co-pay is with my insurance company.
Since the beginning they have been very clear that they do not offer therapeutic visitation on Saturdays. Did I tell you that last week I received an actual letter from their program manager stating this and a copy was sent to my ex as well from them. She continues to ignore all the facts.

 

[daddenied]

Got a hearing date...

Hi Met4. The FLF attorney made the amendment you suggested and set a hearing date for Sept. 14th. It seems so far off. Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks!

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Good news although not the news you wanted but now you have a court date and she will be served and have to simmer until then, in fact her attitude may change. Now you have to work on the other motions. Glad the amendments were included as well, it is important they the court realize that the reason the therapy sessions are on Sat is because of your Ex and you are accomodating her and yet she knew they could not be done at CYS on Sat, this is an example of intentional interference with visitation and her ocntinued insistance on this after being informed otherwise. Remember while she may answer some of your communications she is likely to claim she didn't get the ones she wants to ignore.

The insurance thing, that is how it works when both parties have insurance whether you are married or not and actually, you may end up with no co pay. Her insurance will pay the first, then yours the second leaving only what is not covered between the two plans, just be careful she doesn't take them in for things that are not covered without your knowledge and consent, because she will try.

You both need to understand that with joint legal custody school and medical issues are to be discussed while she may, due to having residential custody, have the final say or handle acute problems, she needs to inform you in a timely manner, not keep these thing intentionally hidden from you or allow bills to accumulate. This is not harassment and avoiding your communications is not an excuse. You may have to keep records of everything and email/fax/usps crrr her once a week.

As I said before, her actions with your son's therapy will not look good for her and she can't use the fact that you didn't provide care because some visits were covered, she has no excuse. While she said you could obtain the records from the insurance or provider she will need to provide a release, or you will have to subpoena them and at least you have a court date.

Your work is cut out for you. Also check with the court re the Sept date, let them know there will be several other motions to be held at that time so they can block out the time but get the motions prepared asap, perhaps the LA county FLF office can help you with the contempt motion and possibly sanctions.

 

[daddenied]

All the email that is attached to the motion filed today shows she responded, but a similar response to the one I posted.


My ex is saying that unless it is court ordered, since her birthdate falls before mine her insurance is required to pay for the services rendered to our children. BUT, I am confused because it IS court ordered right? Or am I just ignorant?

For some reason she doesn't understand that whole joint legal custody deal. I understand she is the CP, but her questions of why I am asking so many questions over the last year about the children, etc...is answered "Because prior to that I never had to beg for the information...I was always informed and trusted she would continue to do this" But, I don't have to tell you how it ended...

She is refusing to give me the name of her insurance company. I am unsure of how to find this information out, but I have already contacted the dentist office requesting information on the unpaid claims. Maybe I can get it from them.

In reference to what you said:

Your work is cut out for you. Also check with the court re the Sept date, let them know there will be several other motions to be held at that time so they can block out the time but get the motions prepared asap, perhaps the LA county FLF office can help you with the contempt motion and possibly sanctions.

Sorry...I just want to be sure I understand...I call the Clerk of the court and let them know other motions will be held at the same time. When I complete the other motions and file it, will I be able to request that these motions be heard at the same time of the change of therapist hearing? I do plan on going into the LA FLF office for help with the contempt motion and anything else. Also, what I found out about my attorney, or former attorney who abandoned me will blow your mind. I will post it in the attorney's forum.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

All the email that is attached to the motion filed today shows she responded, but a similar response to the one I posted.

Good, it will show what is happening, give her enough rope......

My ex is saying that unless it is court ordered, since her birthdate falls before mine her insurance is required to pay for the services rendered to our children. BUT, I am confused because it IS court ordered right? Or am I just ignorant?

She is refusing to give me the name of her insurance company. I am unsure of how to find this information out, but I have already contacted the dentist office requesting information on the unpaid claims. Maybe I can get it from them.

That is how it works, usueally there isn't an issue after a divorce because there often is only one insurance to deal with, my guess is that because of her intentional violations of the court orders, the dentist office is not appropriately informed, thus they submit the claim on way and the insurance then denies the claim because it is not properly submitted. At least you have the name of the dentist office, hopefullly they will cooporate with you to resolve the issue so her pays first and yours the rest and you have little to pay left over. Either she doesn't understand joint custody and thought that she was doing you a favor or she is intentionally undermining the process because you are moving on in your life. Has the dentist office responded to you?

For some reason she doesn't understand that whole joint legal custody deal. I understand she is the CP, but her questions of why I am asking so many questions over the last year about the children, etc...is answered "Because prior to that I never had to beg for the information...I was always informed and trusted she would continue to do this" But, I don't have to tell you how it ended...

This is because she thinks being CP gives her much more power than intended.

 

[daddenied]

I haven't heard from the dentist office, but have not been home for a few days, housesitting a home much closer to work (usually a 2 hours drive in traffic) but will be home tomorrow. Haven't heard anythng over the phone or through email so hope something came through the mail at home.

I called her this past weekend to ask for the cell # of her parents home where my sons are visiting. My oldest son had a birthday yesterday and I have called his grandmother's home # and left 2 messages, but no return call plus the answering machine that usually has her voice on it is an automated computer generated message so I wasn't sure I had the right number. When I asked my ex for their cell # she told me she doesn't have to give it to me. I dug in my old phone records since I knew that her father had given me theri cell in the past when they helped transport my children, but left a message and still not response...unable to speak to my son on his birthday yesterday, I'm feelng beat and beaten by the system again. My ex was served the paperwork last week and I don't look forward to her response that I expect to be filled with lies. Hmmm...

I heard from the therapist who saw my child without my consent today and she emailed saying she is actually out of the country and won't be back for 10 days. I want to believe her, but with all the untruths from my ex, I can't help but wonder if they are plotting. Should I wait until Aug. 17th to call her and bug her again? Or, should I do something else?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Make sure the issue of contact numbers and the ability to communicate with your children is clarified in your contempt motions and any future modifications.

Hopefully you will have some mail and also the papers from your attorney tonight so you will know what all has transpired.

You will have to wait until the therapist returns in 10 days.

Check the online access for proof of service filed.

 

[daddenied]

Check the online access for proof of service filed.

I did. The FLF office filed the proof of service the same day they received my check and signed motion. Thanks!