Need Advice Please

[quincy]

Quaere -
Just a few comments on your advice, which is sound on the whole and the references are helpful.

In order to be hired as a teacher, background checks are done. Most districts require that their teachers be fingerprinted. Wannateachintx was hired, so apparently the background check came up clean and apparently references from the old school were good. The school administrations have both supported wannateachintx, as well, which indicates to me that they do not believe the claims made by the other teacher are valid - and if no one believes the claims, what was said cannot really support a defamation suit, and if wannateachintx is still employed, there is more difficulty showing damages.

It is obvious that Wannateachintx was slandered. And anytime something derogatory is said about someone, there are those who will look at that person differently, despite proof of its falsity. I still don't believe this alone can support a successful defamation suit, however - and I think any litigation could jeopardize Wannateachintx's current employment. This is what concerns me the most.

Having a complaint against this other teacher on file is important, I think, and certainly sworn affidavitts would help support the complaint - but involving the NEW school and its employees in anything like this will probably not be in Wannateachintx's best interests. Schools don't like having their employees involved in litigation, certainly not at the beginning of their employment.

Schools generally take any complaint against a teacher seriously, and I have a feeling this odd teacher is going to be investigated, or kept under close watch, by the school, in spite of the impression Wannateachintx had about their lack of concern. Additionally, this odd teacher has not had, apparently, her own classroom, so there are probably good reasons for that that the school and administration are already aware of.

But I will bow to your judgment if you feel she needs to carry this further.

 

[Quaere]

The school administrations have both supported wannateachintx, as well, which indicates to me that they do not believe the claims made by the other teacher are valid

Employers that answer to UNIONS are especially well versed in their rights and responsibilities to employees. W’s boss has no choice but to claim he is unaffected by the allegations. There is no reason to believe his stated opinion on the matter is truthful.

- and if no one believes the claims, what was said cannot really support a defamation suit

A defamation plaintiff has no obligation to prove another person believed the defamatory allegations. Once the falsehood is conveyed to a non-privileged third party, there is an assumption that the falsehood will be relayed to others. We KNOW that some of the people that hear the falsehood will believe it because there are some people who will believe ANYTHING (as evidenced by the popularity of such rags as the “Star” and the “Enquirer”) about anyone.

Is it nice to have a witnesses that admits he believed the allegations? Sure, such witnesses can bolster the PRESUMPTION the jury will be INSTRUCTED to make regarding damages in a defamation per se case. Such a witness is definitely not required though.

, and if wannateachintx is still employed, there is more difficulty showing damages.

If W was really accused of taking the teacher into a closet and threatening her, and if he is innocent, the statements are defamation per se. He does not have to show ANY damages. The damages are presumed.

I still don't believe this alone can support a successful defamation suit, however

Why not?

- and I think any litigation could jeopardize Wannateachintx's current employment. This is what concerns me the most.

A teacher is free to litigate any matter he wants to litigate. Why in the world would his new employer have any problem with something that does not concern him?

Having a complaint against this other teacher on file is important, I think, and certainly sworn affidavitts would help support the complaint - but involving the NEW school and its employees in anything like this will probably not be in Wannateachintx's best interests.

The new school is already involved.

Schools don't like having their employees involved in litigation, certainly not at the beginning of their employment.

Why do you say that? Are school employees expected to waive their right to recourse for a civil wrong committed against them?

Schools generally take any complaint against a teacher seriously, and I have a feeling this odd teacher is going to be investigated, or kept under close watch, by the school, in spite of the impression Wannateachintx had about their lack of concern.

That may be so, but nothing the old school does will undo the damage that has occurred to W’s reputation.

But I will bow to your judgment if you feel she needs to carry this further.

As I said before, the important thing is to find out ASAP, what the witnesses are willing to SWEAR to. Too many people exaggerate when giving an informal report on the contents of a conversation.

Right now, W doesn’t even know for sure exactly what the other teacher said. W should not be relying on or reacting to unsworn hearsay in this matter. Until the witnesses give a sworn account, everything they told W should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[wannateachintx]

Employers that answer to UNIONS are especially well versed in their rights and responsibilities to employees. W’s boss has no choice but to claim he is unaffected by the allegations. There is no reason to believe his stated opinion on the matter is truthful.

I really do not know what to believe here. The principal has been totally honest about this situation and says he backs me 100 percent. However, he also said that he will not say anything to anyone but cannot promise that the other person in the office who the teacher spoken with will not, especially in a small school district.

A defamation plaintiff has no obligation to prove another person believed the defamatory allegations. Once the falsehood is conveyed to a non-privileged third party, there is an assumption that the falsehood will be relayed to others. We KNOW that some of the people that hear the falsehood will believe it because there are some people who will believe ANYTHING (as evidenced by the popularity of such rags as the “Star” and the “Enquirer”) about anyone.

This is what I'm worried about. Nobody in this new district knows me and if this does leak out, that will be what they know me by, regardless of the fact that its all false.






A teacher is free to litigate any matter he wants to litigate. Why in the world would his new employer have any problem with something that does not concern him?



The new school is already involved.


This is what worries me. It was on advice from my new principal that I look into legal options. The absolute last thing I want to do is get my new district involved but certainly want this stopped.





That may be so, but nothing the old school does will undo the damage that has occurred to W’s reputation.



As I said before, the important thing is to find out ASAP, what the witnesses are willing to SWEAR to. Too many people exaggerate when giving an informal report on the contents of a conversation.

Right now, W doesn’t even know for sure exactly what the other teacher said. W should not be relying on or reacting to unsworn hearsay in this matter. Until the witnesses give a sworn account, everything they told W should be taken with a grain of salt.

Ok, do I go to them and ask them to write/type out an affidavit? I'm not sure on that. I know two of the parties probably would but also not sure if I have to go to a lawyer first and have them do that.



I really want this stopped and believe if I just "overlook" it, this will happen to me again by her. If not me, maybe another former co-worker. The last thing I want to do is jeopardize my job but want this stopped and want to do anything I can legally to ensure this won't happen again as well as make sure she is reprimanded.

 

[quincy]

Well, Quaere's advice is different than what I would recommend, but he thinks you should go ahead and get sworn affidavits from the people involved (the secretary, the principals, and whoever else this teacher contacted) explaining the content of their conversations with the weird teacher.

It would definitely be wise, prior to doing this, to hire an attorney. Your attorney will be able to tell you exactly what is needed and why. If your new principal recommended legal action, anyway, your principal is probably expecting litigation of some sort.

Have your attorney go over ALL of what you told us. I am still not convinced this is the way to go, but Quaere seems to think it is, so at the very least your own attorney can review all of what happened and when, and direct you on the proper course of action.

Good luck - and post again to let us know what happens.

 

[Quaere]

Ask each witness if they are willing to provide a sworn statement about the phone call. If so, you will ask them to recreate in writing, as much of the conversation as they can remember, from start to finish. This will be a rough draft of the official document so they need not take any pains with the format.

YOU will draft the final affidavit for them to sign (it must be notarized).

Find a sample affidavit on line. It’s a simple document but it has to have specific identifying information in the beginning along with a statement that the document is signed under oath.

Write the affidavit using the witnesses’ draft, give the witness a copy or two and ask them to sign it and have it notarized and return it to you.

A lawyer is not going to help you with any of this unless you first hand him a good sized retainer ($5,000.00 or so). You don't need a lawyer for this as you are really just trying to ascertain exactly what each witness is willing to swear to.

 

[Quaere]

I am a big believer in trying a cease and desist letter in a situation like this. I would wait until your witnesses give you sworn statements, but once you know you have evidence of actual defamatory statements, either you or an atty should send a C & D letter.

You have an entire year from the date of the calls, to sue this woman. Get your documentation while the info is fresh in the witnesses' minds. Then you can afford to sit back and consider your options for a while.

The principal has been totally honest about this situation and says he backs me 100 percent.

And he is probably sincere about that. BUT, should there be any type of accusation against you in the future, he will certainly remember this situation and I think most people would allow the earlier accusation to prejudice them in handling the new situation.

However, he also said that he will not say anything to anyone

He has a duty to keep such things confidential and he probably will do so.

Other witnesses but cannot promise that the other person in the office who the teacher spoken with will not, especially in a small school district.

Anyone that repeats the falsehood AS FACT (basically if they repeat it in a way that would lead another person to believe it is true), knowing you have denied the allegations, would become liable for defamation as well. Unfortunately too few people are aware of such liability and think that as long as they didn't START the rumor, they can freely spread it.

 

[quincy]

Ah dear, Quaere - I sure hope you are right about this. I honestly think a job could be jeopardized here.....

I am all for saving money, and $5000 is a chunk out of teacher's salary for sure, but I would advise wannateachintx at LEAST go over EVERYTHING with a legal aid attorney or a free-initial-consultation attorney or SOMEONE before approaching the new school people with requests for sworn and signed affidavits.

(We were posting at the same time and you beat me to it - a cease and desist letter was what I suggested first and I still think it makes the most sense. If drafted by an attorney, it will hold more weight, but even the threat of legal action may make this weird teacher back off. And I still think an on-file complaint, just with what wannateachintx was told by the principals, is important)

 

[wannateachintx]

Thanks. If I do the cease and desist letter, is there a place for samples. I believe this will be enough but will most certainly seek and exhaust all legal options if necessary. I know it is a huge chunk of my salary but I am proud of my reputation and what I have done and don't think it's right to stand by and allow this. Make sense?


I had to turn in my keys to the old district earlier this week and of course they knew about this. They told me they are sorry and also mentioned legal if it happens again. They told me that it wouldn't be a district issue and I got the impression that I couldn't file a complaint with them. Is this true? One (the worst) allegation supposedly occurred on school property so how is that now their issue? Sorry for the rambling. I'm really confused. I'm really excited and been working hard in getting my classroom ready for my new school but at the same time, am worried that something else is going to be thrown at me by her.

 

[Quaere]

W:

One (the worst) allegation supposedly occurred on school property so how is that now their issue?

One might think they would be interested in knowing a teacher from their school, is running around telling people she was assaulted on THEIR grounds. I think I’ll retract my earlier statement that they have no right to deal with her. She’s making false statements about their school. HOWEVER, that is between the school and the nutcase. They can’t tell you what, if anything, they have done about it.

Quincy:

Ah dear, Quaere - I sure hope you are right about this. I honestly think a job could be jeopardized here.....

I assume W has a mind of his own and is capable of understanding that any advice given here is based on very limited knowledge of the facts. There are dozens of factors we are unaware of that should play into his ultimate decision on how to proceed.

I don’t understand why you think an employer would have any problem understanding that W wants to document this incident for his own protection and to create a record in case there are further attacks. I’ve been an employer and if I were W’s boss, I would be EXPECTING him to ask for a written statement. It is REALLY hard to find good employees and most employers will do anything they can to cooperate with an employee if he is performing well at his job. Some employers become very protective and will actually lead the charge against the enemy, lol.

Everyone has their own ideas, but when someone takes an aggressive approach to what he claims are false statements that were made about him, I am more likely to believe he IS innocent. People that have something to hide, generally try to keep a low profile after something like this.

I am all for saving money, and $5000 is a chunk out of teacher's salary for sure, but I would advise wannateachintx at LEAST go over EVERYTHING with a legal aid attorney or a free-initial-consultation attorney

Oh, if only there were competent assistance available for a reasonable fee!

My observation has been that when an atty deviates from his usual practice area, he can wreak havoc for his client. Too often, the atty fails to recognize his limitations and although he could bring himself up to speed with a little research, he doesn’t see that he needs to.

Defamation is not a common claim. Most attys were taught in law school that private defamation claims can’t be won and are not worth pursuing. To this we add the nearly universal lack of knowledge about presumed damages and we get a severe shortage of attorneys that are competent to advise a potential defamation party about any aspect of the claim.

Spending more money on counsel won’t necessarily help either.

When Intel was CLEARLY defamed, they sued for Trespass to Chattels. They lost and the court informed them that their actual claim was for defamation.

Then there was the “high powered” Philadelphia attorney that had a solid defamation claim against the New York Times. The attorney neglected to include a presumed damages jury instruction. Plaintiff won the case and his client was awarded $1.00 because the jury couldn’t award damages without the instruction.

I could go on and on with such stories. The point is it is easier to learn how to write an affidavit than find an attorney that is familiar with defamation claims.

It’s a simple sworn statement. Of course you want it to be as thorough as possible but if the witnesses write everything they can remember, that is as good as it’s going to get....with or without an atty.

(We were posting at the same time and you beat me to it - a cease and desist letter was what I suggested first

Yes, I know you suggested it.

If drafted by an attorney, it will hold more weight

True.

And I still think an on-file complaint, just with what wannateachintx was told by the principals, is important

I agree that W should put his own statement in his file at his new job, but I don’t know what the odd teacher’s employer would do with a written complaint from W about the nutcase. In fact, if I were her employer I would send the complaint back to W to make sure he understands that I have no responsibility and will take no responsibility for her outside activities.

 

[las365]

Stepping aside from statutes and case law, take a look at what you have to gain and to lose by suing this person for defamation.
1) your actual damages that can be reduced to monetary value are little or none. You didn't lose your job, you didn't get arrested or charged with a crime, you haven't had to seek mental health treatment for emotional distress. Given that, you are unlikely to find an attorney to take your case on a contingent fee basis. NOTE: I am not a lawyer and don't know what statutory damages you may be entitled to, as Quaere seems to indicate. I guess I work for one of those law firms that doesn't know enough about defamation claims to try to make a mint from them, but what about #3 below?
2) Do you have $5K-10K or more to spend on a lawsuit? Would you consider that money well spent just to prove your point? Or would you have better use for it?
3) Does she have assets to satisfy a judgment?
4) Do you want to stay immersed in this situation for the next couple of years during litigation? A lawsuit against this person would figuratively yoke you to her until it ended.

At this point, you may be the only one who is thinking about this stuff. Your employer seems to have let it go without much concern. Your former employer wants it to go away (of course that is probably from self-interest only). Things that may happen in the future but may not are not generally compensable even if you win, i.e., you don't get money because at some point in the future your employer might not give you a raise. I'm not suggesting any course of action, except that you step back and take a breath and not make any rash decisions like paying a bunch of money to sue someone if all it is going to do is keep the pot stirred up.

I am considering a "cease and desist" letter to be a precursor to litigation in this circumstance. 'Cause what do you do if she doesn't cease? If she has ceased already, what's the point of the letter? My opinion, not legal adviuce, is that the more you keep the situation inflamed by doing things like going around asking people to give you sworn statements (which they will probably not be very willing to do) and sending her letters, the less likely it is to just die a natural death. If she is obsessed and continues to do things to try to harm your reputation or career, or worse, you'll know soon enough and then can take action.