Neighbor claims my property is preventing rain water from draining from his back yard.

[In2b8er]

I moved into my house 2yrs ago in Michigan. We have a pool in our backyard and it takes up most of the back yard. Around the whole back yard is a pool fence and directly inside the pool fence are arborvitae trees for privacy. Our next door neighbor started complaining this spring that there’s water collecting from rain and not draining from his property because the arborvitae raised the elevation of my property overtime. The pool was put in in 2000 same with the pool fence and we assume the arborvitae. The neighbor called the city to complain, the city came out and said that there’s a natural drainage easement running through the back of our backyards and that a pine tree in our backyard over time changed the elevation of the easement and now it obstructs natural flow of water. They recommended I dig a small trench to allow for the water to drain again. However, there are many areas along our fence line that are low points on the neighbors property and collecting water. He wants us to pay for the installation of a dry well and French drains to dry up his backyard, cost of ~$3,000. This is the first time he’s complaining about this and says water has always collected their but never this bad. We’re the 3rd owners of the house; and the pool, fence, and arborvitae were installed by the first owner 22yrs ago. The houses were built in the 1990’s. The neighbor is the original owner of his house and has lived there for almost 25yrs. We’re digging the trench that the city recommended and will call the city back to inspect it and sign off on it. Does the neighbor have any legal rights to demand I pay for the dry well and French drain or is he full of it? The neighbor is an attorney so if this has to go to court it will be a lot more expensive for me than him and it would be cheaper to just pay him for the drain. I’ll take all the advice I can get. Thank you all in advance.

 

[adjusterjack]

What has happened over the last 25 years is irrelevant. What counts is what is happening now during your ownership of the property. If something about your property is adversely affecting the neighbor's property, you're going to be responsible for the remedy.

Right now the city said trench, you're making a trench. That's all you are obligated to do.

The neighbor, as does anybody, has a "legal" right to demand anything he wants to. But I'm guessing that's not the question you meant to ask. Would he win in court? No way to predict.

You might approach it by saying "I dug a trench, let's see what happens when the rains come."

Don't be afraid of him because he's a lawyer. Were he to take this to court he would have to pay an expert because his word about what's causing the problem would be meaningless.

 

[quincy]

I moved into my house 2yrs ago in Michigan. We have a pool in our backyard and it takes up most of the back yard. Around the whole back yard is a pool fence and directly inside the pool fence are arborvitae trees for privacy. Our next door neighbor started complaining this spring that there’s water collecting from rain and not draining from his property because the arborvitae raised the elevation of my property overtime. The pool was put in in 2000 same with the pool fence and we assume the arborvitae. The neighbor called the city to complain, the city came out and said that there’s a natural drainage easement running through the back of our backyards and that a pine tree in our backyard over time changed the elevation of the easement and now it obstructs natural flow of water. They recommended I dig a small trench to allow for the water to drain again. However, there are many areas along our fence line that are low points on the neighbors property and collecting water. He wants us to pay for the installation of a dry well and French drains to dry up his backyard, cost of ~$3,000. This is the first time he’s complaining about this and says water has always collected their but never this bad. We’re the 3rd owners of the house; and the pool, fence, and arborvitae were installed by the first owner 22yrs ago. The houses were built in the 1990’s. The neighbor is the original owner of his house and has lived there for almost 25yrs. We’re digging the trench that the city recommended and will call the city back to inspect it and sign off on it. Does the neighbor have any legal rights to demand I pay for the dry well and French drain or is he full of it? The neighbor is an attorney so if this has to go to court it will be a lot more expensive for me than him and it would be cheaper to just pay him for the drain. I’ll take all the advice I can get. Thank you all in advance.

Michigan follows, as do most states, the “natural flow rule,” which permits water to flow in is natural path from property at a higher elevation to and through property at a lower elevation. Here is a link to a brief summary of this rule: https://oceana.mi.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Drain-Law-Drains-Page.pdf

Problems can arise between property owners, however, whenever this natural flow is disrupted, altered or diverted by changes made to the higher property. Your neighbor apparently is claiming that the addition and growth of the arborvitae is such a change.

Here are two Michigan cases to review that address the issues of nuisance and trespass as these relate to disruption in the natural flow of water:

Wiggins v. City of Burton, 291 Mich. App. 532 (2011): https://casetext.com/case/wiggins-v-city-of-burton

Schmidt v. Eger, 94 Mich. App. 728 (1980): https://casetext.com/case/schmidt-v-eger

I recommend you seek out a land use attorney to help you address your neighbor’s complaint and to assist you in limiting any liability for damage the neighbor claims and to handle the demands being made.

 

[FarmerJ]

Do your self a favir abd carefully read your citys ordinances about drainage your self , the drainage ditch i understand but what you may want to learn is if that was advice from your city inspector OR is what you were told based on your city ords. EG back when we had the four plex a neighbor to the west had property that was lower than our lot so one year she was having a fit because we had a very fast snow -ice melt and water from our parking area and the west side of our lot flowed into her yard , by this point we had changed nothing when this happened and MInneapolis told us that when changes were made like say a driveway -parking pad or other landscape projects we could not direct water to her lot . So we had not made any changes to the property to require us to change drainage. SO my point is to look into it to learn the details of the ordinance and if it doesnt require you to do more then should your neighbor sue you you may have to use the language of the ordinance to defend doing nothing more and that neighbor will have to prove to a court you changed something that prevented drainage. You also may want to have that inspector memorialize what you were told to do on city stationary for your records.

 

[quincy]

I suggest looking at the length of time between the installation of the pool and arborvitae, and the neighbor’s complaint. I personally think the neighbor is on shaky (and apparently soggy ) legal ground.

 

[In2b8er]

I suggest looking at the length of time between the installation of the pool and arborvitae, and the neighbor’s complaint. I personally think the neighbor is on shaky (and apparently soggy ) legal ground.

that’s what I think. The changes were made 22 years ago. He hasn’t complained about this for 22yrs and now starts complaining. According to Natural Flow Rule I believe if a complaint hasn’t been made for more than 15yrs than the change in landscape is considered natural and now is subject to the natural flow rule and the common enemy rule. Another words his statute of limitations is 15yrs and it’s been 22yrs.

 

[quincy]

that’s what I think. The changes were made 22 years ago. He hasn’t complained about this for 22yrs and now starts complaining. According to Natural Flow Rule I believe if a complaint hasn’t been made for more than 15yrs than the change in landscape is considered natural and now is subject to the natural flow rule and the common enemy rule. Another words his statute of limitations is 15yrs and it’s been 22yrs.

You will want an attorney in your area to confirm but, yes, I believe that your neighbor waited too long to complain about the changes to the property.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Let me get this straight: your neighbor's beef is that stormwater runoff is no longer going into your yard?

Or he claiming that your stormwater runoff is going into his yard?

 

[In2b8er]

Let me get this straight: your neighbor's beef is that stormwater runoff is no longer going into your yard?

Or he claiming that your stormwater runoff is going into his yard?

He’s complaining that storm water is not going off his yard into mine (because that’s how the sub-division was designed to drain when it was first built in the 90’s) and it’s causing erosion of his property making it collect even more on his property.

 

[quincy]

He’s complaining that storm water is not going off his yard into mine (because that’s how the sub-division was designed to drain when it was first built in the 90’s) and it’s causing erosion of his property making it collect even more on his property.

It sounds like your neighbor needs to work on his property so that the natural drain easement that runs between your lots accommodates his water flow. That would be on him, not you, unless you are artificially adding to the amount of water flowing from your property to the common drain.

Again, I don’t believe your neighbor can lay his needed repairs on you. Your water seems to be doing what it is naturally designed to do, in finding its way to the drain easement.

But you will want to consult with a land use attorney if your neighbor decides to push the issue by taking you to court.

 

[not2cleverRed]

He’s complaining that storm water is not going off his yard into mine (because that’s how the sub-division was designed to drain when it was first built in the 90’s) and it’s causing erosion of his property making it collect even more on his property.

How odd. So he thinks he has the right to have water run off his property and flood others?!

I was under the impression that the trend, in new construction at least, is to strive to contain one's runoff to one's own property. I could understand your neighbor's point if he were getting your runoff, but his own runoff?!

You lawyer neighbor doesn't necessarily know more than you about real estate law.

 

[quincy]

The rain water and snow melt from both properties should be flowing naturally into the drain easement, leaving no standing water on either property. It sounds (from what I can tell by the description) that it is the neighbor’s property that needs work rather than In2b8er’s property. In2b8er’s water seems to be flowing into the easement.