Neighbors stole 15 trees by logging their property and lying to the logger that the property line is straight when it's not

[justalayman]

I’m not sure what you mean by you will cement the corners but not only is the unrealistic to expect to be present during the field portion of the survey, you cannot do anything with the stakes placed for markers. The stakes are placed with a fairly high degree of accuracy and anything you do to the stakes is likely to result in them not being properly placed.

It is often a criminal act to disturb surveyors stakes. I haven’t checked your state but it isn’t unusual for it to be illegal to disturb a surveyors stakes. You also have to realize that to encircle a stake, you would have to trespass onto the neighbors property. That might not be a great idea given the issues at hand.

As to being there when the surveyor is: it’s not uncommon for a surveyor to not schedule time with the hiring entity. They generally don’t need the input of the land owners nor their help. They may simply show up, do their thing, and move on without anybody knowing they were there.

If you know the survey company, contact them and ask about them setting a concrete encased marker rather than a stake, if you are willing to pay for it anyway.

 

[HRZ]

You are missing the point .....your neighbor could be looking at a long stay in jail plus a rather hefty fine plus a judgement for 3 X your damages which may well be 12 K and simple math says that's $36 k ....your neighbor might be wise to accept a very low buy out and you might be wise to find a way to make it happen and eliminate future issues with them....with attention to not assuming any other debt on these lands

 

[Lia]

It is often a criminal act to disturb surveyors stakes. I haven’t checked your state but it isn’t unusual for it to be illegal to disturb a surveyors stakes.

Yes, it is illegal but for the neighbors who knowingly stole the trees, got caught and confronted and might be facing a jail time and court appearance with fines and settlements, do you think they wouldn't move those stakes for their benefit? I'm 100% sure that's why she went and paid for it and if we are not there, we will order and pay for it again unless it goes exactly like it shows on the county site with all measurements. Their neighbor on another side has a cemented survey stake on the corner and fence running along the property line and that's what we used to get our corners.

HRZ --- it's an investment property. We're going to develop it and sell it. We won't be living next to them so no worries about any future issues with them. Hopefully it'll be over within a year or so for us.

 

[justalayman]

Yes, it is illegal but for the neighbors who knowingly stole the trees, got caught and confronted and might be facing a jail time and court appearance with fines and settlements, do you think they wouldn't move those stakes for their benefit? I'm 100% sure that's why she went and paid for it and if we are not there, we will order and pay for it again unless it goes exactly like it shows on the county site with all measurements. Their neighbor on another side has a cemented survey stake on the corner and fence running along the property line and that's what we used to get our corners.

HRZ --- it's an investment property. We're going to develop it and sell it. We won't be living next to them so no worries about any future issues with them. Hopefully it'll be over within a year or so for us.

i don’t knkw if they would move stakes or not but it doesn’t mean you can also break the law to attempt to circucumvent what you think they may do.

 

[HRZ]

The value of your investment property may darn well be less with this person as a neighbor ?

 

[not2cleverRed]

Logger came to us with a letter of apology and $500. He mentioned before that he didn't get paid what he was supposed to so I guess she might've cheated him out -- or is he lying? He's about 70 and can't read or write so his woman wrote the letter for him.

And the neighbor finally texted back that she ordered a survey and already paid for it. We said that we want to be there but she said that they'll let her know when which we doubt. We want to be there for sure as she might try to change the spikes so we'll call them first thing Monday morning and ask. It's a good thing as we were going to survey before putting the fence so it's a 2 grand not coming from our pocket. We told her about the logger's apology so she asked is she'll do the same, will we forgive her. We answered that 4.5K will do that since the logger paid 500 and she replied that they had equal share. We replied that she hired him so it's between the two of them how they are going to share the 5 grand but it's the least we'll settle out of court. If we are present at survey, we'll cement the corners and give her credit for 2 grand.

No. *You* don't do that. You pay the surveyor extra to install (permanant) survey monuments. After that, you keep the area clear arount the monuments or install identifying markers near enough to the monuments so that they can be "found" more easily.

 

[Lia]

No. *You* don't do that. You pay the surveyor extra to install (permanant) survey monuments. After that, you keep the area clear arount the monuments or install identifying markers near enough to the monuments so that they can be "found" more easily.

Yes, that's what my husband said that survey is something they should have done before logging the trees. We called the survey firm and yes, she is to be scheduled next week because they are backed up but they can't tell us the date for privacy. After we told them about "timber trespass", they said that they will record every stump that was logged on our side and have a map for that so even if she moves the stakes, it will be recorded with the survey firm.

 

[HRZ]

Absent any new evidence that the trees were on neighbors property , I think you would be very wise to focusing on a way to get rid of this neighbor by use of the poker cards you hold . And wiser to employ a skilled poker player /lawyer to play your cards.

 

[154NH773]

Electrical grounding rods make excellent corner markers They are steel with a copper jacket and can be pounded into the ground 6-8 feet, making them impossible to remove by hand. They are easily located with a metal detector if they are cut off or pounded beneath the surface. You can ask the surveyor to place them, or put them in yourself right next to the surveyors marker (they won't be off by more than an inch, which you can note for your records the distance and direction). You can buy them at any electrical supply house.

The logger is obviously afraid of a large fine, as he is probably liable by his contract with the landowner to stay within the boundaries indicated to him by the landowner (my contract with a logger required me to locate and mark the boundary and then the logger was liable to stay within those bounds). I think he would be sued, and he would then have to prove he was following the landowner's directions and sue the landowner.

Before you set an arbitrary settlement figure, get the estimates and mill information. You might be surprised at the amount a fine could be for them.

 

[Lia]

I am trying to located the timber tax that they paid. Does anyone knows where I can find that (WA state, Pierce county)? They are both lying. The neighbor does know the property outline and she's saying that he took more than he was supposed to. He says that she told him the property boundary is the straight line and she wanted to take more trees even after that straight line but he refused because he was sure they were not hers. It's the case of "he said, she said". I took a pic to show the outlines of our parcels -- how do I inset the image into my post??? The upper one is ours 1.5 acres and hers is lower one 1.12 acres. It's easy to see how logger could've been fooled by her and thought it was the straight line.

 

[Lia]

Ok, it looks like they didn't get any logging permits and nothing is recorded on the county site. I checked the parcels in the area that were logged by a professional logger and they all had an application on file and had a "6 years development moratorium" in parcel alerts. Her parcel doesn't have anything besides the applications and permits to bring in the mobile. So if they didn't get the permit and didn't file anything, how were they able to sell it? And most likely this means they didn't pay any timber tax.

 

[154NH773]

So if they didn't get the permit and didn't file anything, how were they able to sell it? And most likely this means they didn't pay any timber tax.

I think it’s time to get a lawyer if you want to recover damages.
It is probably legal to clear trees on her property under the guise of moving the trailer
in, for which she had the proper permits. It becomes a gray area if the logger sold those trees.
Whether it was a logging operation or not, taking your trees is still “timber trespass”.

 

[HRZ]

You seem intent on beating around the bush and failing to take decisive action to get rid of a problematic neighbor when fate has given you a set of poker cards in you favor.