Not a DUI yet

[cbg]

So the family can't manage him but they expect the bar to be able to. Each and every staff member is supposed to be able to recognize him on sight and know instantly that they are supposed to adhere to the family's wishes, whether the family is present or not, and not to those of the customer.

And if you're going to pull out the, It's illegal to sell alcohol to an intoxicated person, card, you might want to remember that in your state it is ALSO illegal to be intoxicated in any public place. Yet you have indicated that you are not willing to have him arrested or jailed. Sauce for the goose?

 

[t74]

Thank you for your honesty. If pushed right now, he would choose suicide in his mental state most days. His alcohol abuse is his self medication for depression about his unrelated but potentially life threatening health problems.

 

[t74]

So the family can't manage him but they expect the bar to be able to. Each and every staff member is supposed to be able to recognize him on sight and know instantly that they are supposed to adhere to the family's wishes, whether the family is present or not, and not to those of the customer.

And if you're going to pull out the, It's illegal to sell alcohol to an intoxicated person, card, you might want to remember that in your state it is ALSO illegal to be intoxicated in any public place. Yet you have indicated that you are not willing to have him arrested or jailed. Sauce for the goose?

If getting arrested would help, I will leave him there. The normal judicial system won't do anything; he needs to go through mental health court. I have more than enough medical history to justify them taking control over his case. If it meant getting him involuntarily committed to inpatient, then he could not check himself out.

Yes, the owners and each staff member at this bar knows him well as he often does computer work for them (unpaid except for the drinks they provide) as well as works at their other "events" (chili cookoff, etc.). It is a small bar in a strip mall not in a restaurant.

 

[Ohiogal]

If getting arrested would help, I will leave him there. The normal judicial system won't do anything; he needs to go through mental health court. I have more than enough medical history to justify them taking control over his case. If it meant getting him involuntarily committed to inpatient, then he could not check himself out.

Yes, the owners and each staff member at this bar knows him well as he often does computer work for them (unpaid except for the drinks they provide) as well as works at their other "events" (chili cookoff, etc.). It is a small bar in a strip mall not in a restaurant.

YOU have nothing to do with any of this actually. Quite frankly, you seem to be really nosy. Your "information" or "history" doesn't justify anyone taking over his case because he doesn't have a case.

 

[cbg]

Look.

Either this guy is competent to manage his own affairs or he's not.

If he is, then it's none of your business.

If he's not, then it's his family's responsibility. Not the bar's.

 

[CdwJava]

Part of the Catch-22 with mental health is the alcohol. Most mental health systems won't involuntarily commit a person who acts erratically when they have been drinking because they view it as inebriation and not a mental health issue.

So, if you want to put the kibosh on his drinking, you can keep him from going to the bar (and hope he doesn't report anyone for kidnapping or false imprisonment), report his drunkenness or impaired driving to the police, report the bar's continued serving to obviously inebriated persons (which may be hard to enforce and might also result in his arrest), or find a way to accompany him to keep him out of trouble.

The bar is not going to get in trouble for legally serving someone drinks when he is apparently able to make up his own mind and is not clearly schnockered. The consequences of this man's poor decisions are his and no one else's.

 

[margaretB]

Well, that is a bar. It really serves alcoholic beverages to everybody, intoxicated or not, as long as the costumer ordered for the drink.

 

[CdwJava]

Well, that is a bar. It really serves alcoholic beverages to everybody, intoxicated or not, as long as the costumer ordered for the drink.

The laws in all states generally prohibits a commercial establishment from serving an obviously intoxicated individual. The bar would very likely adopt civil liability by doing so, and in some instances could adopt criminal liability.

 

[t74]

I know they can be held criminally liable in the event of an accident; this would be easy to demonstrate that the alcohol was served at this bar. I cannot find any information about civil liability in the statutes.

I do not know if they have had any lawsuits filed against them; I do know how to search the court records and will look at those records. I know that not long ago one of the regulars was killed in a single car traffic accident while driving home; I do not know if it was judged to be alcohol related. I have no idea how to look up police/sheriff records. So if an intoxicated person is killed in a DUI accident, I would be unable to find charges filed in the records I can search since there would be none.

Also, even more recently another of the regulars was arrested in the parking lot for gun related crimes. That I did find those records when advised to look him up by name. However, since they are shooting each other regularly in other parts of town (4 shootings in one day ! not to count the recent home invasions involving guns), I guess the area in which the bar is located does not get a lot of police attention due to the resources being needed elsewhere. Unless it is a death related DUI, it is not a big deal here at this time. It is going to be a long summer!

On a positive note, I did find the number for the mental health crisis intervention team which I thought had been abandoned due to budget problems. They have been moved to a private agency from the public agency that ran it 10-15 years ago.

 

[CdwJava]

I know they can be held criminally liable in the event of an accident; this would be easy to demonstrate that the alcohol was served at this bar. I cannot find any information about civil liability in the statutes.

I would think it to be the other way around - they might be found to hold some CIVIL liability if they were clearly served after they were inebriated, and criminally liable only under some very unique and extraordinary fact sets.

As a note, it is exceedingly rare for lawsuits to be filed in these cases without substantial witness testimony as to the inebriation of the subject served.

But, unless your goal is to sue the bar after your friend or family member dies or kills people in a DUI, none of this theorizing does ANY GOOD in getting help for your friend!

If he is an alcoholic, you should get him help! Finger-wagging at the bar will NOT stop an alcoholic from drinking! If this bar doesn't serve him, he'll find one that will - or he'll drink at home or a friend's house. I doubt there is but one source of alcohol in your community.

On a positive note, I did find the number for the mental health crisis intervention team which I thought had been abandoned due to budget problems. They have been moved to a private agency from the public agency that ran it 10-15 years ago.

They might be willing to talk with him, but, if he is unwilling to admit he has a problem and reach out for help, then there will be nothing at all that any mental health counselors or therapists can do.

 

[t74]

I did find from a records search that either the bar owner or his father of the same name has had multiple DUIs. In addition, the bar owner had been charged with a felony for serving alcohol to a minor which was dismissed with the payment of court costs.

Obviously, if the owner / sometime bartender does not deal with DUIs in his own family or self, he doesn't care about his patrons.

 

[CdwJava]

I did find from a records search that either the bar owner or his father of the same name has had multiple DUIs. In addition, the bar owner had been charged with a felony for serving alcohol to a minor which was dismissed with the payment of court costs.

Obviously, if the owner / sometime bartender does not deal with DUIs in his own family or self, he doesn't care about his patrons.

Which is entirely irrelevant to your friend's situation.

Your friend has made the decision to drink and drink excessively. It is his actions that are creating the situation that places him and the public at risk. The bar might be contributing to it, but the bar is not to blame for it - HE is.

So, start brainstorming what you can do to get your friend help! It might include a confrontation with him, it might include disabling a car or hiding the keys so he can't go to the bar. Ultimately HE has to make the decision to change or nothing else that happens will change him.

 

[Ladyback1]

I did find from a records search that either the bar owner or his father of the same name has had multiple DUIs. In addition, the bar owner had been charged with a felony for serving alcohol to a minor which was dismissed with the payment of court costs.

Obviously, if the owner / sometime bartender does not deal with DUIs in his own family or self, he doesn't care about his patrons.

The bar is NOT the issue. You really need to grasp that.

Whoever this person is to you? He's alcoholic. And all the blaming someone else, will not help him or you.

Please find a support group for Alcoholic's friends and families (I hear Al-Anon has been helpful to others).

If you truly care for this person, and feel that they are a threat to themselves or a threat to others, then you need to have them admitted to a psych facility for help. And stop trying to blame the bar.