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NY odometer rollback

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midnitepunkin

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? NY.undefined January 2002, I went to Major and bought a 1998 Blazer LT 2-tone, fully loaded with only 24,050 miles, for $18,900.00. I checked out the car and found a few minor problems, but the dealership assured me that they would address them as soon as I bought the car. Since the vehicle only had 24,050 miles, once the minor problems were fixed, I'd have a dependable car with all the options I loved. With taxes, tags, fees and financing, the car's total was almost $24,000.00. After a couple of months, my title came showing 24,050 actual miles.
Soon, the transmission, drive shaft, ball joints, and several other things began to fail. The car was in Major's service shop constantly for the year I had their warranty. Halfway through the year, I was begging them to give me my money and take the car back or give me a car worth what I paid for this. Major refused to even extend my warranty, much less entertain my requests. I didn't find out till much later that according to NYS Lemon LAw they SHOULD have let me return the car because vehicle was in the shop multiple times for same repairs.
After my warranty expired, I purchased an extended warranty from another company. At first, I used it for a few minor repairs that Major had attempted to repair. Then, when I took my car to have electrical and transmission problems repaired, the warranty co. found that my car had approximately 65,000 miles on it in 2001. That was almost a year before I bought my car and they estimated that my Blazer could have up to 80,000 miles on it when I bought it, after averaging the mileage that was incurred during the past years. Since the mileage could not be proven, my warranty was voided until actual mileage could be shown. I was told to contact a lawyer since I was now a victim of "rollback".
I confronted the manager. He said I could trade in my "greatly depreciated" vehicle towards another car. He pulled out my files and went through my paperwork. I saw a computer printout stating the vehicle's mileage wasn't actual mileage. My signature was on it, but I know I didn't sign that particular paper. I wanted a copy of it, but he wouldn't copy it for me. The manager told me to leave. I went back another day and one of the other employees copied the paper for me. We couldn't find a paper that showed the actual mileage.
I have the title, all paperwork I had from the sale, all the service orders from the dealer, the copy of the mileage paper from the dealer, carfax report, and proof of all work done to vehicle that I had to pay out of MY pocket. I also paid $1,400.00 for a warranty that was void, because I used it for repairs before we discovered the rollback. With the purchase of the vehicle and the money I put into it, I'm dumping more than $28,000.00 into a car that was worth less than $9,000.00 when I bought it.
As far as I'm concerned I have proven that Major had intent to deceive me. They also deceived the Dept of Motor vehicles. They're on the NYS Attorney General's "Lemon Laundering" List and they were cited for not disclosing lemon status of their vehicles. I have heard that according to the NHTSA, victims of odometer fraud can be awarded 3 times the damages.
Major is still willing to let me trade in my "greatly depreciated" vehicle towards another used car.
I hired a lawyer over a yr ago. This is his first time doing this and he seems to be eager to settle. Should I sit back and let my lawyer take some money towards another used car, or should I get more aggressive? If I do hire another lawyer, would they want their money up-front or would it be taken from the settlement? What type of lawyer handles this? What type of damages should I be suing for? What kind of proof do I need? How do I find previous cases against Major?
 


teflon_jones

Senior Member
Did you or did you not sign the piece of paper saying the vehicle's miles weren't actual miles? You said it has your signature on it, but you say you didn't sign it. I don't see how this is possible!
 
What exactly did you sign????????

"I saw a computer printout stating the vehicle's mileage wasn't actual mileage. My signature was on it, but I know I didn't sign that particular paper"

Is this a case of odometer "rollback" or purchasing a vehicle that did not show "actual mileage"? Odometer rollback is a federal offense. However, to pursue that, I expect you would have to prove who did the actual "rollback". Another explaniation could be the odometer quit working and was changed out in which case it would be sold as "mileage not actual". Where was this vehicle since 2001 and the time you purchased it. Most likely through many dealers and auctions. Where did the Warrany Company get this "rollback" information from? Most likely Car-fax. Selling a vehicle with "mileage not actual" is not illegal. However,the purchaser must be made aware of it.This SHOULD be noted on your title and on your bill of sale/purchase agreement.( Sometimes mileage discrepencies do not get applied on titles when they are transferred as they should by error not intent.)This is not something that should be noted on a seperate piece of paper. I don't think that will float and could indicate intent to conceal this fact from you. Now the fact that your signatures on it ?????????.

Did you keep a copy of the title you received from the dealer before you transferred it into your name? On the assignment area on the reverse, there are two boxes, one indicates the mileage mechanical limits are exceeded and the other indicates the "miles are not actual". Now if this was checked, you have a problem. This would indicate you were advised it was not actual. If you do not have a copy, the dealer is required by law to keep one and ,if they will not produce it, you can get one from DMV. This is where I would start.

If there is nothing on your bill of sale/purchase agreement or on your title to indicate the mileage is not actual, I would contact the local DMV to find out what department handles dealer complaints, speak with an investigator, explain the facts and see what they suggest.

I will not coment on what to do about your lawyer or settlement. I do know, based on what you've said, I would not want another vehicle from these guys!
 

midnitepunkin

Junior Member
No, I would not/did not sign any paper saying that the mileage was not correct. The only thing I can think of is that they may have printed out the information on the paper AFTER I signed it...I just don't know. It didn't seem odd for the vehicle to have such low miles as I drive 5,000-8,000 miles a yr. The low mileage was one of the key reasons I bought the vehicle. Also, DMV was deceived because the title came back stating ACTUAL mileage. Also, I didn't register the vehicle, I paid the dealer to do that so I never had the previous title.
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
If your NYS title doesn't say TMU, then what is the specific basis for saying the truck actually had 60K+ miles on it?


PS: And by "Major", do are you referring to a dealer on Northern Blvd. down in LIC?
 

midnitepunkin

Junior Member
Carfax report, another report (not carfax, but another co.) that the dealership has, and the dealership HAS a paper saying TMU that they didn't want ME to have, but I got one of the employees to copy it for me. Warranty co. ran truck's vin thru other reports and same info came up with red flags and exclamation points. Truck has shown all symptoms of a vehicle with higher mileage, as it needed trans rebuilt, rear replaced, suspension problems, and needs total tune-up before each inspection. Plus, when confronted, dealership said that vehicle was now "greatly depreciated" and would allow me to trade it in towards another car.
They were charged with violating numerous consumer protection laws and forced to pay penalties. The NYS atty genl's office cited them for failing to disclose lemon status and they are also on the "Lemon Laundering list". Too bad that list came out AFTER I bought the car.
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
midnitepunkin said:
Carfax report, another report (not carfax, but another co.) that the dealership has, and the dealership HAS a paper saying TMU that they didn't want ME to have, but I got one of the employees to copy it for me. Warranty co. ran truck's vin thru other reports and same info came up with red flags and exclamation points. Truck has shown all symptoms of a vehicle with higher mileage, as it needed trans rebuilt, rear replaced, suspension problems, and needs total tune-up before each inspection. Plus, when confronted, dealership said that vehicle was now "greatly depreciated" and would allow me to trade it in towards another car.
They were charged with violating numerous consumer protection laws and forced to pay penalties. The NYS atty genl's office cited them for failing to disclose lemon status and they are also on the "Lemon Laundering list". Too bad that list came out AFTER I bought the car.
Did you give this paper showing the dealer knew of the TMU prior to the sale to your attorney? He really ought to have a field day with this one - it's pretty rare that you have written evidence of a dealer's fraud. Makes one's lawsuit much easier to win :)
 

midnitepunkin

Junior Member
Yes, I gave atty ALL my original paperwork, including paper stating TMU that dealer's employee copied for me. I am having issues with my atty's eagerness to settle. Which is why I wrote in asking if I have all the proof, should I hire another atty, and what types of damages would I be suing for (punitive or others?), etc. What court should this go to? I don't even know what type of lawyer handles this, since atty is part of my company's benefits. I want to know how this works, this way I know I won't be taken for another ride, if you know what I mean.
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
midnitepunkin said:
Yes, I gave atty ALL my original paperwork, including paper stating TMU that dealer's employee copied for me. I am having issues with my atty's eagerness to settle. Which is why I wrote in asking if I have all the proof, should I hire another atty, and what types of damages would I be suing for (punitive or others?), etc. What court should this go to? I don't even know what type of lawyer handles this, since atty is part of my company's benefits. I want to know how this works, this way I know I won't be taken for another ride, if you know what I mean.
I can't tell you what to do about your current lawyer, but if it were me, I'd be using someone with experience in fraud litigation. The remainder of your questions are something you'd need to decide personally (with your attorney's input), or decisions for your lawyer to make.

Have you tried actually speaking to you lawyer about your concerns?
 

midnitepunkin

Junior Member
Yes. I showed him the reports from the NY atty genl's website and told him what I wanted to sue for. A brand new equinox or escape (you can't mess with a brand spanky new car's odometer..and if you do...big deal..what's it gonna be, 5,000 miles?) and the rest of my lien settled (there's only two yrs left) and the money that I dumped into this put back into my pocket. I thought I was being reasonable. He seems to think I'm asking for too much. He says that they're offering me some money towards another car. Oh happiness. Someone slap me and call me stupid if I do take THAT offer. :(
I know that some victims of odometer fraud are awarded up to 3X the amount of their damages according to the NHTSA, that's another reason why I'm having issues. I feel I'm gonna be shortchanged on this and stuck with a $28,000. coat rack that I can't trade in or sell.
 

teflon_jones

Senior Member
midnitepunkin said:
Yes. I showed him the reports from the NY atty genl's website and told him what I wanted to sue for. A brand new equinox or escape (you can't mess with a brand spanky new car's odometer..and if you do...big deal..what's it gonna be, 5,000 miles?)
Why should you get a brand new car when you bought a used one?

midnitepunkin said:
and the rest of my lien settled (there's only two yrs left)
Your lien is your lien, not theirs. Period.

midnitepunkin said:
and the money that I dumped into this put back into my pocket.
Yes, you could be entitled to that.


midnitepunkin said:
I thought I was being reasonable. He seems to think I'm asking for too much.
And he's correct.
midnitepunkin said:
He says that they're offering me some money towards another car. Oh happiness. Someone slap me and call me stupid if I do take THAT offer. :(
If that amount equals what you "dumped" into the car, plus the difference between the value you paid and what the car was actually worth, I'd take the offer.

midnitepunkin said:
I know that some victims of odometer fraud are awarded up to 3X the amount of their damages according to the NHTSA, that's another reason why I'm having issues.
What are you basing this on?
 

midnitepunkin

Junior Member
1.Because the dealer comes out ahead on this deal that I offer. I paid top dollar for a slightly used car with hardly any mileage. After what I've been through, I would not accept another used car from them. Since the dealer pays less for the new equinox than what I paid them already for my car, they still make a profit and make me a satisfied customer.
2. My lien is a lot more than what it would have been had I paid what the car was worth. I think that they are somewhat responsible for that. If I had paid what the car was worth, my lien would have been paid yrs ago.
3. Yeh, that was about $4,000.00 of fixing stuff that the dealer ALREADY said that they fixed.
4. You may agree with him, I still think I'm not being unreasonable. But then again, I'M the one that was swindled.
5. The car cost me a total of almost $24,000.00. It wasn't worth $9,000.00. PLUS I dumped about $4,000.00 out of my own pocket into it. Plus the time I lost because of the car being in the shop constantly. What would be the total cost of my damages? Anyone have a ballpark guess? I don't think I want to take another used car from them no matter HOW much they put towards it. I still say slap me if I go for that one. I don't think I'll ever buy another used car again (from a dealer) PERIOD.
6. http://www.carprices.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?name=odometer.html Here's one of the articles you can check out.
Let me know if this answers all your questions about what I want. You can go to the Ny office of the Atty Genl website for the other info about the dealer if you want. I know for a fact that I'm not the only one who's been ripped off by them. Someone has to stand up and say something, might as well be me. Thanx.
 

Bluff Man

Junior Member
If you want the case resolved, simply take all of your paperwork and documents to the NYS Department of Motor Vehicles. If there has been odometer fraud they will resolve it. The DMV issues and controls a dealers license in NY and carries more clout than any other agency. If you signed an MV-50 stating that the mileage was "true mileage unknown", then you have no case. You are responsible to read what you sign. Written contracts and documents cannot be over ridden by verbal promises.
 

midnitepunkin

Junior Member
I didn't sign anything that said TMU or anything that would have led me to believe that the mileage would have been incorrect. Like I had mentioned before, they must have slipped this one in as a duplicate or under other papers or they could have even printed out the info after I signed it. I never would have signed anything that would have led me to believe that the mileage was tampered with because the mileage was one of the main reasons I bought the car. The car was advertised on the lot as LOW MILES which was the biggest selling point to me. I felt there was no reason to question anything since my title came back to me as "actual Mileage" with the low miles stated on the document.
I am waiting patiently so far. My lawyer and I are waiting to see what the dealership wants to do. I guess I'm one of the lucky people who found out how this dealership acquired their reputation. As far as DMV is concerned, they will not take care of this. I have the forms to fill out from them, but they are not like the the Genl Atty's office or the DA and cannot order the dealer to pay or fix the problem. Thanx so much for your input and concern.
 

msiron

Member
Mid... lets see exactly what has been done at any GM dealer and the mileage shown at those times. Post your trucks Vin and I will access the gm database and perform a VIS and post it. As a note: age is a factor too, not just mileage, remember that when you have vehicle problems.

Also depending on what the VIS shows it can either help you or hurt your case. Either way you will have a real VIS to go by.
 

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