Police Employment/Take Home Vehicles

[Johnmelissa]

California

Carl, my neighbor/cop had his son apply for police employment and both neighbors on each side were interviewed. I presented a less than positive opinion with evidence and the other neighbor hated the neighbor/cop's entire family so much that he was selling and moving at the time - he had written to the Mayor about noise and the Animal Control about dog barking etc. Do you think an applicant would be hired if both neighbors were strongly opposed giving negative reactions? Also, if a motorcycle officer rides his vehicle home, can he park it at his father's house 2 miles away. What's the take-home vehicle policy, can you travel 100 miles per day and must the officer keep the vehicle at his residence? Some counties disallowed personal use of taxpayer funded vehicles being used for personal commutes. Some agencies said it was necessary because the officer might be "called back" to work. That is ridiculous. A personal vehicle can be used in the event of a "call-back." The neighbor/cop has never been called back and wants to save gas money and wear and tear on his personal vehicle. Are the use of a taxpayer provided vehicle, gasoline expense and maintenance costs taxable income for the motorcycle officer - does the agency withhold for imputed dollar benefits stemming from the personal use of an agency vehicle?

Thanks.

 

[justalayman]

I know you were shooting at Carl but...

In my area (not in California) the justification for take home vehicles is that the presence of the vehicle tends to defer crime in the area. In most cases, they are no longer allowed to use the vehicle for personal use (although I see it all the time). In other words, it sets at home even if they are out to the movies.

to the callback using a personal vehicle: depending on the situation, it may be necessary for them to respond directly to the scene and there may be a need for the equipment in the police vehicle to be available. If so, they would have to report to the station and obtain a vehicle prior to heading to the scene.


to the statements from neighbors: a lot of neighbors don't get along and there are a lot of people willing to tell everybody how bad their neighbors are. While I suspect the information will be given its due weight, I suspect what that is can only be determined when compared to statements from others not so closely associated with the applicant.

 

[Johnmelissa]

Motorcycle is not displayed, it is parked in a garage overnight. Are you saying that cops drive motorcycles home and leave them out it the street at night. Are you serious? A lowly motorcycle officer that has never been called back for any reason who drives 100 miles per day to save himself paying for gas in his pick-up truck that gets about 10 mpg. He is 50 miles from his area of operations and a call-back would take an hour response time. There is NO tactical rationale. That's a b------- excuse and we all know it. The guy saves money using taxpayer vehicles and gas and maintenance. Does he pay INCOME tax on that? Ridiculous. And a WASTE of tax dollars. PERIOD. Your response? Question was can he park the motorcycle overnight at his father's house 2 miles away. What's the policy? And 2 neighbors hate the employment applicant because of his behavior - that can't be a good thing.

Let me add that the motorcycle officer's wife was laid off and he owes $387,000.00 (home equity loan) on a 40' motorhome (w/interest), the manufacturer (in bankruptcy which is public info on the Internet) of which he is suing under "lemon law," aside from his mortgage, 5 other cars and pick-ups, sand rails, private off and on highway vehicles and massive home improvements including insurances and the expenses for two children, 18 and 20. Driving a county vehicle saves him much needed money, right?

 

[Zigner]

What's the policy?

Yours is not a legal question. Rather, you are asking about departmental policies...
Perhaps you need to ask the department

 

[Johnmelissa]

If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. The cogency of your contribution is dubious.

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

Why are you stalking your neighbor and his children?

 

[CdwJava]

Do you think an applicant would be hired if both neighbors were strongly opposed giving negative reactions?

Interviewing neighbors is only one facet in the investigation. If the neighbors' reactions are as a result of ire against the applicant's parent, then it will have less of an impact than it might if the neighbors were able to articulate specific acts on the part of the applicant that might tend to show he is not fit for the job.

Also, if a motorcycle officer rides his vehicle home, can he park it at his father's house 2 miles away. What's the take-home vehicle policy, can you travel 100 miles per day and must the officer keep the vehicle at his residence?

Every agency has their own policy. Most agencies that provide motors (motorcycles) seem to allow the officer to ride it home even if they live outside the jurisdiction a way. The local agencies around here do not allow take home cars outside the county, but others might. These policies vary by agency and many have stopped permitting take home cars altogether.

Some counties disallowed personal use of taxpayer funded vehicles being used for personal commutes. Some agencies said it was necessary because the officer might be "called back" to work. That is ridiculous. A personal vehicle can be used in the event of a "call-back."

It's a time saver. If the officer is called back to duty - particularly an investigator or supervisor - the delay caused by having to go from the house to the office to secure equipment and vehicles before going to the scene can be detrimental to the incident at hand.

I have a take home unit. But, I also live within the city limits. Before I had this vehicle my response time was doubled as a result of having to respond first to the station, then find a car, make sure it had the equipment I might need, and then respond to the scene. Now, I can respond directly to the scene.

While the average officer is not going to be subject to regular callout, investigators and field supervisors can be (depending on the agency size, structure, and need).

This is a decision that each agency must make for itself depending on need. In some agencies it is a nice luxury, for others it is a luxury. If the officer works for a large city or county, the delay caused by forcing him or her to drive first to the office then to the scene could be measured in hours rather than minutes. In my city the delay was measured in minutes for the delay, but for the Sheriff's Office it might be measured in hours. Heck, they might even PASS the scene on their way to the office to get a car and gear.

The neighbor/cop has never been called back and wants to save gas money and wear and tear on his personal vehicle. Are the use of a taxpayer provided vehicle, gasoline expense and maintenance costs taxable income for the motorcycle officer - does the agency withhold for imputed dollar benefits stemming from the personal use of an agency vehicle?

Not knowing his agency policy on take home vehicles, I can't say. Does this have to be reported as income? Generally, no, unless he uses the vehicle for his own personal use.

Motorcycle is not displayed, it is parked in a garage overnight.

That's usually where motor officers park them.

A lowly motorcycle officer that has never been called back for any reason who drives 100 miles per day to save himself paying for gas in his pick-up truck that gets about 10 mpg. He is 50 miles from his area of operations and a call-back would take an hour response time. There is NO tactical rationale.

For motors it is not a tactical issue so much as it is a maintenance and care issue. Motor officers also take care of their bikes. They clean them, maintain them and baby them. You find that they have a longer term of service when bought home than they do if they remain on station. The rationale for a motor is not that they might be called back, but because it is more convenient than requiring the motor officer to drive in, dress at the station, check out a bike, and then go 10-8. This way he can be dressed when he leaves the home, and can go 10-8 when he enters the jurisdiction ... often times, his presence acts as a deterrence to malfeasance on the way in to work as well.

And, in some agencies, motor officers are also collision investigators, though callouts for the motor at night would be rare in my experience.

Question was can he park the motorcycle overnight at his father's house 2 miles away. What's the policy?

Sure he can. Unless the policy for some reason that he park it in his own personal garage, I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to park it where he wishes. But, it all depends on the agency's policy.

And 2 neighbors hate the employment applicant because of his behavior - that can't be a good thing.

It's certainly not a good thing. But, if the statements were largely focused on the applicant's father, then it will play out a little better for the applicant. Dad being an ass does not mean the son is.

 

[justalayman]

Johnmelissa;2858955] Are you saying that cops drive motorcycles home and leave them out it the street at night. Are you serious?

I haven't seen them on a street but in a driveway. What would be wrong with that?

A lowly motorcycle officer that has never been called back for any reason who drives 100 miles per day to save himself paying for gas in his pick-up truck that gets about 10 mpg. He is 50 miles from his area of operations and a call-back would take an hour response time. There is NO tactical rationale. That's a b------- excuse and we all know it.

I didn't say his situation was justified. It is a matter of policy and if you pay taxes that support that police force, I would at least ask the chief or whatever title the head guy has about the policy.

Question was can he park the motorcycle overnight at his father's house 2 miles away. What's the policy?

that i can't tell you but his department head should surely know. I don't have a problem with controlling tax expenditures if they are without justification as most citizens wouldn;t either. Ask those with the knowledge.

And 2 neighbors hate the employment applicant because of his behavior - that can't be a good thing.

no but given the overall situation, I suspect the interviewer is not going to get an objective perspective.

Let me add that the motorcycle officer's wife was laid off and he owes $387,000.00 (home equity loan) on a 40' motorhome (w/interest), the manufacturer (in bankruptcy which is public info on the Internet) of which he is suing under "lemon law," aside from his mortgage, 5 other cars and pick-ups, sand rails, private off and on highway vehicles and massive home improvements including insurances and the expenses for two children, 18 and 20. Driving a county vehicle saves him much needed money, right?

I would have to say yes, it does save him much needed money. I cannot see how a cop can afford all of that so I suspect he needs all the savings he can get.

 

[Johnmelissa]

Sorry, Carl, this is for OZARK to engage his inanity briefly. Did you answer the question? My neighbor rides a motorcycle right in front of me and my house twice a day 50 miles from his worksite. I have a 40' bus 15' away that he starts up twice a day to harass us. As a result of his violations, he's had three of my complaints for tresspass, unlawful detention, obstruction of police investigation by fellow police officer, rudeness etc. sustained against him. The police agency came to my house and left a notice requesting that I call so that they could ask me questions. I think the police agency may be stalking my neighbor and his applicant son. Most basic information was developed in police reports, in discovery for my lawsuit and resultant arbitration hearing. The neighbor on the other side must have been stalking also when he came down to my house yelling about how he hated the neighbor and wanted to contact the city and his employer...oops, then he moved! Next question - I presume your answers to posted questions typically come in the form of questions, correct?

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

Sorry, Carl, this is for OZARK to engage his inanity briefly. Did you answer the question? My neighbor rides a motorcycle right in front of me and my house twice a day 50 miles from his worksite. I have a 40' bus 15' away that he starts up twice a day to harass us. As a result of his violations, he's had three of my complaints for tresspass, unlawful detention, obstruction of police investigation by fellow police officer, rudeness etc. sustained against him. The police agency came to my house and left a notice requesting that I call so that they could ask me questions. I think the police agency may be stalking my neighbor and his applicant son. Most basic information was developed in police reports, in discovery for my lawsuit and resultant arbitration hearing. The neighbor on the other side must have been stalking also when he came down to my house yelling about how he hated the neighbor and wanted to contact the city and his employer...oops, then he moved! Next question - I presume your answers to posted questions typically come in the form of questions, correct?

Your posts clearly indicate an unhealthy obsession with your neighbor. The more you obsesson, stalk and antagonize him, the worse the situation is going to get for you. Seek counseling.

 

[Johnmelissa]

OK, Carl, what a relief. You should get your own site so posters might avoid the chaff that lingers here. Also, this site itself may cause posts to be out of sequence. I appologize for responses to others that are not directed to you.

Thanks for the usual excellent response. I question the genentic disconnect, "like father, like son." Where did that come from if not an intelligent source. I and the neighbor have offered complaint letters and reports directly naming the son for harassment and nuisance creation from dog feces deposition and barking to code violations of "major vehicle repair in the driveway" along with CVC violations of exhaust system modification, glass tinting and excessive noise, including deliberate engine revving. This is in conjunction with the son filing a false report to police in a case that was immediately rejected by the DA - there's something wrong when your complaint is thrown out post haste.

I don't see how an officer is in a good position to rapidly respond when he is 3 counties away. It's good sense to be prepared, I agree, and stopping to dress and checkout sounds time consuming but it's hard to believe that an entry level motor officer is indispensible and absolutely necessary on a motorcycle with no special equipment. The problem is that, it appears that the callback has never happened and is simply an excuse to provide higher compensation to an employee. I wonder if workers at a nuclear plant are provided with a vehicle to use for their personal commute or firemen, they don't drive fire trucks home. These arguments are kind of silly and they appear to require a gullible audience. I don't buy the "call-back" rationale but I can clearly see that it would cost the neighbor/cop $50 a day to use his personal pick-up. Most workers would love to have their commute paid for and could present some logical rationale, like the mail must go through or what if you couldn't get your Big Mack for lunch or DOUGHNUTS (just kidding). It's the case globally that high ranking officers in every industry have the ability to be on site immediately when necessary. I get that. But a low grade motor officer, 50 miles away. That's just taking advantage of the taxpayer.

Any union official would say forcefully that maintenance and care MUST be done per regulation by a UNION mechanic in a union (OSHA) facility. I can't possibly buy that a motor officer can and/or should do his own vehicle maintenance. What does your maintence shop union say about motor officers going home and doing the work of union mechanics and laborers?

Thanks.

 

[Johnmelissa]

OZARK, the neighbor/cop just started his 40' bus 15' from my bedroom windows for the second time today to vibrate our entire house as harassment. As I read your words, my video monitor is vibrating. I guess you think that if I hear that, I'm stalking my neighbor. Because I hear and feel the neighbor's 40' bus twice a day vibrating my house, I'm stalking him. How many times a day does an unused, stored bus need to be started? He had complaints sustained because he acted officially off-duty and traumatized my daughter and her friends on a trumpted up charge of eratic driving and practically broke into my house while tresspassing against a lawsuit settlement agreement not to come on my property...complaints sustained by his own supervisors and department. Get it? When he rides his motorcycle past our house twice daily it further traumatizes us through that memory. I'm asking what the rationale is for saving him gas money by allowing him to drive his taxpayer provided motorcycle 100 miles a day for his personal commute and no other reason, such as being called back to work from 50 miles distance. Preposterous. Do you think the other neighbor was stalking the neighbor/cop when he videotaped the barking dogs over the fence to file a report with animal control or when he wrote a letter to the mayor about distrubance, noise, major auto repair work in the front yard, was he stalking for the mayor? Was the other neighbor unstalking when he sold his house and moved away last week having had enough and getting no help from city officials. You sound as if you can't comprehend facts and process information logically. Did you see the video of the cop in Rochester, N.Y., who arrested an American citizen in her front yard for videotaping, her Constitutional right, claiming that she threatened him, as if a 5 foot girl was a threat to 4 police officers? Did you think that was a good cop doing good work?

 

[Zigner]

It is apparent that anyone who presents something different than what you WANT to hear is wrong and only out to get you. I would add paranoia to the list of things you are dealing with.

 

[CdwJava]

Thanks for the usual excellent response. I question the genentic disconnect, "like father, like son." Where did that come from if not an intelligent source.

I have known a great many good people who came from poor homes, and vice versa. Realistically, we cannot conduct a background on the applicant's family, only on the applicant. Even if the spouse has a history, it does not necessarily reflect poorly on the applicant ... though all matters must be considered based upon the facts presented.

I and the neighbor have offered complaint letters and reports directly naming the son for harassment and nuisance creation from dog feces deposition and barking to code violations of "major vehicle repair in the driveway" along with CVC violations of exhaust system modification, glass tinting and excessive noise, including deliberate engine revving. This is in conjunction with the son filing a false report to police in a case that was immediately rejected by the DA - there's something wrong when your complaint is thrown out post haste.

And if you could point a finger at the applicant's behavior, then it would reflect poorly on his suitability.

I don't see how an officer is in a good position to rapidly respond when he is 3 counties away. It's good sense to be prepared, I agree, and stopping to dress and checkout sounds time consuming but it's hard to believe that an entry level motor officer is indispensible and absolutely necessary on a motorcycle with no special equipment.

As I mentioned, with motors it is less about callout and more about efficiency and maintenance. Whether you or I might agree with such a policy is entirely irrelevant as that is the policy and practice of that agency. Any disagreement with that policy and practice is best taken up with the agency that adopts it.

It's the case globally that high ranking officers in every industry have the ability to be on site immediately when necessary. I get that. But a low grade motor officer, 50 miles away. That's just taking advantage of the taxpayer.

Again, it is an effective way to keep the bike maintained and to get the officer to work quickly and efficiently. Plus, it is an issue for the agency. If they find it an advantage, they will do it.

As for high ranking officers needing to get on site quickly, in law enforcement that has always been a silly notion. Rarely does the Chief, a captain, or often even a lieutenant have to get on scene quickly. Those folks get there long after the poop has hit the fan. Giving the take home rides to the on call investigators, supervisors, and special teams or officers that DO need to respond quickly is far more effective. For higher ranking personnel it is, indeed, usually a perk and not so much a necessity.

Any union official would say forcefully that maintenance and care MUST be done per regulation by a UNION mechanic in a union (OSHA) facility.

There is a difference between routine care of the vehicle and dismantling it. This is a common practice by most every agency in the state with motors, so apparently none of the unions seem to have an issue with it. Uniform issues, efficiency, cleaning, maintenance, and deterrence are all arguments for these to be take home bikes. The expense with a motorcycle is minimal even of the commute might be 50 miles. A car could be far more costly, but a motorcycle is really a low cost item when it comes to travel.

 

[Zigner]

Any union official would say forcefully that maintenance and care MUST be done per regulation by a UNION mechanic in a union (OSHA) facility.

Why do you mention OSHA in the same breath as UNION? One has nothing to do with the other (in the way you seem to imply.)