Police k9 car search

[HighwayMan]

Stopping someone with a history of violating the law would hold up as a reason for a Terry Stop in any court in Georgia.

That's hard to believe if there are NO additional suspicions at the time of the stop. If I walk up to someone on the street who I've locked up several times before for criminal activity I do not get to stop them for no reason because I feel like it.

While a known prior conviction history may add to the circumstances that, in and of itself, does not provide reasonable suspicion.

 

[HighwayMan]

a police dog is considered to be an officer when speaking of actions of the police.

At the very least the dog is working under the direction of a police officer - the dog doesn't decide to search a car on his own! So even if the dog isn't considered a member of the department, it is certainly acting as an agent of the police - same as if I stop somebody on the street and tell them "hey go search that car for me and tell me if you find drugs".

Haven't you ever noticed that if you hit a police dog, you do get charged with assaulting an officer.

Well, not everywhere. In some states there is a statute specifically targeting assaults on police dogs though.

 

[Proseguru]

we are all assuming the the cop did not lie ... that the guy was a drug dealer .... there is no RAS here that I can see .. OP would have to sue to find out..

Why the OP talked to the cop is unknown, it was not smart. Maybe RAS is what was communicated.

 

[7654]

Maybe someone can else can chime in on that. I'm not very good at finding case law, but if I have time I might try to find it.



In addition, some cops like to "play games" if you assert your rights. "Oh so you wanna play hardball?" "This would be a lot easier if you just comply with my requests, please step out of the car". Google what a Terry Stop is. Sometimes you will assert your rights and they will take you outside of the car and sit you down and question you with all kinds of questions. "If you tell me where the dope is I'll go easy on you" "Just tell me who is selling dope and I'll get you a good deal" "If you tell me the truth now it'll be a lot better than if I catch you lying", etc. Basically they can and will try to intimidate you to get you to change your story or confess under pressure and this will take longer. Just remember that they can't have you out there forever, only a reasonable amount of time. And also remember you can choose to be silent at any time. All you have to do is identify yourself to the officer and provide any vehicle paperwork he requests. Beyond that, you pretty much don't need to say a single word except to decline a search.


Usually it doesn't work well that way. If he tells you to stay put and you get up that could be bad. I have been yelled at before by a pissed off officer because I took the time to close my door and lock it. The police can lie, they can be pissed off, and they can yell at you for something that is completely legal and within your rights to do. Like I said, they may intimidate you into not doing something that you have every right to because you don't know what will make them mad enough to do something like handcuff you or arrest you. You should try to close the door as you're exiting the vehicle to make things easier. If you make any move while exiting the vehicle or getting back up to close the door that could be perceived as you hiding something, that could end up being very bad.


The meanings of the words reasonable and probable pretty much tell you the difference. Reasonable suspicion is what any reasonable person would believe given what they know. Would a reasonable person have a suspicion that you had done a drug deal if they knew you had been arrested for drugs before and they saw you exchange a handshake and conversation with somebody? Probable cause is a higher level of suspicion. Is it probable that you have drugs in the car? If it smells like weed, yes. If there's a pill container in visible sight, yes. If there are needles in the car, yes. Nothing in sight and no smells = no probable cause. A dog alerting that there are drugs in the car is probable cause. The officer you encountered was operating on reasonable suspicion to initiate contact with you. He had no probable cause and you didn't admit to anything so he could not search your car. If he had probable cause, he wouldn't have even asked you if he could search your car, he would've told you to get out and he would've tore it up right in front of you. Just remember reasonable suspicion is a lower level of proof and probable cause is a higher level. If you are being asked consent for a search, they don't have probable cause that you've done anything illegal so hold your ground and don't give in or admit to anything. Remain silent if you must.

Now would be a good time to visit http://www.flexyourrights.com and see some examples of enforcing your rights.

Thanks for all the advice and tips Cali408nia. And for the link too.
Yeah, I had other times when a cops tried to intimidate me, confuse me, get me to change a story. This is the first time I had a car search, so I wasn't exactly sure.
And I admit that in the past I've argued with cops which is dumb because you always end up saying something! I'm trying to be the strong, silent type who knows their rights now. Until they get bored of me.

So they can't say you avoiding a question = probable cause?
When the cop was patting my friend down he touched his cigarette box, asked him "what's that?" Friend did say "cigarettes". Cop said "you keep marijuana with your cigarettes?" (cop was done with pat down at this point), my friend just said "you want me to sit down too?"
It seemed to piss off the cop but - there's nothing he can do right? I mean, I'm guessing not, since he didn't...

 

[7654]

.


absolutely agree. When you get out of your car, close the door behind you, and lock it (with keys in your pocket). Wiley folks make provisions to get into their cars even when leaving the keys in the ignition. Problem with that; cops will break a window if they believe they have PC. You will not be able to go back to your car (on your own for your purposes) once you walk away from it until the detention has ended.


Not always true cali. Cops often ask for permission even when they believe they have probable cause. It helps prevent an objection later to the search. Think about it; later, driver is arrested and want to plan strategy for defense. If no permission given, they can always argue no PC and make the cops prove there was. If driver gave permission, cops go; you said it was ok. No PC required. It does make things easier for the prosecution if a driver gives permission. Don't do it. If they believe they have PC, even if you refuse to allow it, they will search. If they don't have PC, they either won't search or will have to prove PC later/

along with cali's link, here are a couple you should view:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc


www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk

Thanks to you for the advice and the links too.

 

[7654]

OP, if I were you, I'd be pretty pissed because a K9 dog going through my car probably would have scratched or damaged part of my car's interior (and I'm a car enthusiast which is the only reason I'd care or be pissed). If the dog did any damage to your car I would get an estimate and then go to the agency where the officer works and file a complaint. It can't hurt to file a complaint and try to get something out of a very questionable search if it caused some kind of damages.

Yeah I wish I had a car that I could get annoyed by scratches and damage over...lol.

Is it real bad, with all this 'rights' talk, that I don't really want to go make a scene because I think it will make me more of a target...that ain't cool.

 

[7654]

we are all assuming the the cop did not lie ... that the guy was a drug dealer .... there is no RAS here that I can see .. OP would have to sue to find out..

Huh? You mean the other kid. No, he's not, cops don't know him. They didn't approach him at all after this (I know cos I've asked him since).

So you think there wasn't even reasonable suspicion at all...?
So then no pat search allowed either? (though I realize I ended up giving permission)

There ain't no black & white about all this at all is there.

Why the OP talked to the cop is unknown, it was not smart. Maybe RAS is what was communicated.

You mean saying anything at all?
All I said was we were going to work, and I talked about the weather with the kid (I'd say it was the type of day where it's not unreasonable to mention the weather...and it was why I wanted a drink to start with!). Everything else I said was a question. Or me denying what he wanted.
So you wouldn't have said a thing? Would you worry that that would make you seem 'hostile' or anything?

 

[Banned_Princess]

Huh? You mean the other kid. No, he's not, cops don't know him. They didn't approach him at all after this (I know cos I've asked him since).

So you think there wasn't even reasonable suspicion at all...?
So then no pat search allowed either? (though I realize I ended up giving permission)

There ain't no black & white about all this at all is there.



You mean saying anything at all?
All I said was we were going to work, and I talked about the weather with the kid (I'd say it was the type of day where it's not unreasonable to mention the weather...and it was why I wanted a drink to start with!). Everything else I said was a question. Or me denying what he wanted.
So you wouldn't have said a thing? Would you worry that that would make you seem 'hostile' or anything?

I think something very important must be said here.

Knowing your rights, and calling out a cop, while they are dealing with you, will not likely cause them to back down or "get scared" and leave you alone. It might make them look at you harder, come up with their probable cause and take you to jail.

the only time a search can be over turned to your benefit is at court, after the arrest and detention and bail is over. any other time, its just the cops being a PITA. Unless you are seriously hiding something, it is my suggestion, as someone who has more run ins with police then I care to mention, let them toss the car. Yes maam, No Sir! Thank you officer.

its really just easier for you, and will get through the stop faster.

If you are hiding something, still be polite, but don't do too much talking, and don't consent to the search. after you are (still) caught with whatever you were hiding, you might have a better chance at beating it in court.

 

[justalayman]

Unless you are seriously hiding something, it is my suggestion, as someone who has more run ins with police then I care to mention, let them toss the car. Yes maam, No Sir! Thank you officer.

I can't disagree with you more. Not only are you giving up your Constitutional rights (bad idea), you are presuming the cop is a good clean cop or some friend didn't drop something in your car unknowingly. I have known a situation where the cops planted dope trying to catch a known drug dealer. I have also known several people that had something (very very little something) in their car but the cops didn't care; off to jail they go.

Heck, a left over beer can (open) that rolled under the seat is enough to get you in more trouble than you want.

its really just easier for you, and will get through the stop faster.

do you suggest carrying KY jelly with you at all times? At least it would make the screwing a bit less painful.

 

[7654]

Knowing your rights, and calling out a cop, while they are dealing with you, will not likely cause them to back down or "get scared" and leave you alone. It might make them look at you harder, come up with their probable cause and take you to jail.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. And I'm not asking questions so that next time I can look like some know it all or be all 'na-na-na-na-na-nah'. I just want to know. Cos how cops don't let you know the difference between, 'this is what you have to do' and 'this is what I want you to do'.

Unless you are seriously hiding something, it is my suggestion, as someone who has more run ins with police then I care to mention, let them toss the car. Yes maam, No Sir! Thank you officer.

Really? I mean, I'd be polite. But I dunno, I don't really like how the answer to making things easier and faster is to comply with things you don't want to or have the right to say no to...
Maybe my wishful thinking is that if I act like this, if I do things 'the hard way' a few times, and they come up empty every time. Maybe they'll back off...(like I said, this was the first car search, but they stop me other times)
But I dunno, maybe they'll just think I'm some uncooperative butthead.

 

[7654]

Heck, a left over beer can (open) that rolled under the seat is enough to get you in more trouble than you want.

I mean to be honest, stuff like that and other people dropping something were on my mind. I am guilty of not cleaning my car very well or much often.

 

[Banned_Princess]

I can't disagree with you more. Not only are you giving up your Constitutional rights (bad idea), you are presuming the cop is a good clean cop or some friend didn't drop something in your car unknowingly. I have known a situation where the cops planted dope trying to catch a known drug dealer. I have also known several people that had something (very very little something) in their car but the cops didn't care; off to jail they go.

Heck, a left over beer can (open) that rolled under the seat is enough to get you in more trouble than you want.

do you suggest carrying KY jelly with you at all times? At least it would make the screwing a bit less painful.

Lol JAL !! i don't usually have anything but pot. I find the nicer I am the nicer they are. yes, sometimes I deserve a ticket, or they got me and I have to go to jail. its not a game to me, its their job to get the bad people, sometimes I am mistaken for a bad person.

No convictions ever, I find thats the most important detail.

 

[Banned_Princess]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. And I'm not asking questions so that next time I can look like some know it all or be all 'na-na-na-na-na-nah'. I just want to know. Cos how cops don't let you know the difference between, 'this is what you have to do' and 'this is what I want you to do'.

keep this in mind, what they want you to do, is most likely what you have to do, unless you want to be answered much more agressively.

Really? I mean, I'd be polite. But I dunno, I don't really like how the answer to making things easier and faster is to comply with things you don't want to or have the right to say no to...

don't tell on yourself, but try not to be vague, and suspicious.

Maybe my wishful thinking is that if I act like this, if I do things 'the hard way' a few times, and they come up empty every time. Maybe they'll back off

they come up off me empty all of the time. that has never stoped them from "I smell weed get out of the car"

...(like I said, this was the first car search, but they stop me other times)
But I dunno, maybe they'll just think I'm some uncooperative butthead.

do you want them to think you are an uncooperative butthead? or a cooperative pleasant pot head, they have never had to taizer.

 

[7654]

keep this in mind, what they want you to do, is most likely what you have to do, unless you want to be answered much more agressively.

I have had times in the past when cops wanted me to do or say things that I didn't have to. And which could be incriminating to me or someone else. That's where my suspicions come from. And yeah, the cops have a job to do...but THEY can do it...

they come up off me empty all of the time. that has never stoped them from "I smell weed get out of the car"

Does your car smell like weed? Mine doesn't. I KNOW it doesn't, it's a pot-smoking-free zone. I'm planning to keep it that way and hope it helps. Because there was a time when I realized people were on to me (and they still try to stay on me - I DO know where it comes from) and I decided to get smarter.
This cop didn't say a thing about my car smelling like pot (I guess that would've given him probable cause right!)

do you want them to think you are an uncooperative butthead? or a cooperative pleasant pot head, they have never had to taizer.

Can I just be quiet and pleasant and deny requests? I ain't a pot head anymore. Just a now and then-er.

 

[Cali408nia]

Unless you are seriously hiding something, it is my suggestion, as someone who has more run ins with police then I care to mention, let them toss the car. Yes maam, No Sir! Thank you officer.

In addition to what JAL said, I will reiterate, the cops don't have to take care when searching your car. They can rip the seats out. They can literally tear things up. I've had my car damaged by a police search before that I gave consent to when I was older than the OP but still young enough that I didn't know my rights. The cop left his gloves in my trunk too. I don't appreciate a cop that can't respect my property and leaves his garbage in my car as well as causing damage. Now, if you have a beater and don't care about your car, then it probably will get you done with the situation faster. After what I've personally had happen to me and how it made me feel, I will never do it again regardless of whether I am hiding anything or not.