Question for a friend

[Motherto6]

Can the alcohol injections cause the liver to bleed, or is it the whole laceration/alcohol combo that caused that?
My Mother-in-law was diagnosed with IBC after she had gone through 2 weeks of antibiotics. We found out later that many, many Doctors misdiagnose things such as this and in one instance a woman had been on various forms of antibiotics for 6 months! The Doctor thought it was skin infection that would not clear up. I hope people learn to get second opinions. I know we don't because we typically have a "realationship" with our Doctors and don't want to offend them, but a good Doc would never truly be offended when it comes to someones life.

 

[Whyte Noise]

Can the alcohol injections cause the liver to bleed, or is it the whole laceration/alcohol combo that caused that?
My Mother-in-law was diagnosed with IBC after she had gone through 2 weeks of antibiotics. We found out later that many, many Doctors misdiagnose things such as this and in one instance a woman had been on various forms of antibiotics for 6 months! The Doctor thought it was skin infection that would not clear up. I hope people learn to get second opinions. I know we don't because we typically have a "realationship" with our Doctors and don't want to offend them, but a good Doc would never truly be offended when it comes to someones life.

I honestly don't know if it could or not. Maybe bleeding is a side effect of the injections itself...?? Perhaps EC, panzer or Rmet could answer that.

And I agree wholeheartedly with not trusting anyone completely. In 1997 I had a physician. I'n been having heart palpitations for a while and told this doctor this. He did an in-office ECG on me (Or EKG... I can't ever remember which is the correct term) and said it was fine and normal. After each visit to him he'd always tell me... "You have friends on medicaid? You tell them to come here and see me." Uhhh... yeah, sure. I'll get right on that. Yes, I was on medicaid at the time. It's not like all us medicaid patients had get togethers and knew one another. LOL

Anyways, I changed my PCP to my GYNO doctor! I'd asked this first doc for a referral to a cardiologist and he refused. There was nothing wrong with me he said, blahblahblah. I'm sorry, but I KNOW when something is wrong, even if I may not know what it is. So, I changed my PCP to my OB/Gyn doctor and got the referral to the cardiologist. Guess what? I have Mitral Valve Prolapse. Got the stress echocardiogram done, Cardiolite screening, etc. Had to wear a Holter monitor for 30 days to monitor the palpitations. I have inverted T-Waves on my ECG (EKG... whichever). I don't know what inverted T-Waves mean, but I have them. I had them on the one that the first doctor did and it even SAID on the sheet "abnormal". But yet, he said I was fine..?

Yes... doctors are professionals, but I know they're also human. I don't trust anyone implicitly when it comes to my health or the health of my family. When my 13 YO daughter started having problems, I PM'ed EC and have kept her up to date on my daughter's progress or lack of. Her liver is 2 1/2 times the normal size it should be right now, her doctor says it's fatty liver disease. It may well be, but still... a liver that size is NOT normal, something is causing it, and we have to find out why/what. The last round of tests she had, had some abnormal results. I PM'ed those to EC as well and she told me her opinion. I'll speak with the doctor about what she told me at her next appointment on the 21st.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Bleeding is not a complicaiton of the alcohol injection its self, esentially, it kills the cancer cell by dehydrating it, where as drinking alcohol may increase the tendency to bleed by interferring with the clotting factors in the liver.

ECG is corect/current usage, EKG is the old.

MG,
Has your daughter been tested for Alpha-1-Antitrypsin deficiency? Genetic testing, even varients may have problems?

 

[Motherto6]

rmet ~ Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering how drinking alcohol could cause bleeding, but injecting it would not. Obviously if it was into cancer cells they would be affected and not the liver, however if there were no cancer cells then I reasoned that it would hurt the liver.
Our body is a very complex thing. More than I will ever understand, but am glad it works.

 

[Whyte Noise]

Rmet, no.. she hasn't been tested for that. (I used Google and checked it out... she's never had either the fingerstick test on that nor the blood draw... I have all of her lab results and there's no AAT test listed as a result. She's never had a fingerstick test, period.)

What started all of this is when we moved to TN and took her to a new doctor to get established. His SOP is to get bloodwork and urinalysis on all new patients up front. Took her in and that that done at the lab. He got the results back and that's when we found out about all her problems. Her doctor in Missouri never ran any bloodwork on her, just saw her for the normal kid things (colds, etc.). Before she was with me in Missouri, she was with her dad in Georgia for 3 years and didn't see a doctor the whole time she was with him. Prior to our separation and divorce, she'd seen the doctor as needed, and had been hospitalized once with a massive ear infection that didn't respond to the antibiotics her ped. prescribed. Now that you have that history, back to the bloodwork..

Bloodwork showed high triglycerides, high cholesterol, high glucose, etc. Lots of abnormal results. Massive amounts of protein in her urine. She was referred to an Endocrinologist and Nephrologist. Both did separate bloodwork and urinalysis on her. Endocrinologist diagnosed her as a Type II Diabetic (even at 12 YO) and prescribed Starlix for her. She was taking that, her sugars would drop to 50 and below, so her normal doctor took her off of that and put her on metformin. She still takes it. Nephrologist wanted to do a kidney biopsy because of the amounts of protein in her urine and that was done last December. The biopsy was done at Vanderbilt in Nashville on a Friday, the next day we were back at Vandy because she was in so much pain... had developed a blood clot from the biopsy behind her kidney. She was admitted. Diagnosis from the biopsy was that the changes in her kidneys were due to the diabetes, even though her doctor stated they usually don't see these type of changes until a person has had diabetes for years. (maybe she's had it for years and we didn't know, because no doctor had ever done a blood test on her for it..?)

Bloodwork done again in February of this year. Glucose still high, triclycerides still high although not as high as previous, protein still in the urine. Doctor says her liver is 8 fingers wide, and that a normal liver is 4. CT and US done of her liver, showing fatty deposits. He diagnosis her with fatty liver disease and metabolic disorder.

She next saw him again last month. Upon exam he states her liver is now about 11 fingers wide. More bloodwork and urinalysis done. To save space, I'll only list the abnormal results from that panel here. Anything not listed was within normal ranges.

Blood Chemistry:

Sodium - 134 (low)
Chloride - 167 (high)
Uric Acid - 8.5 (high)
Triglycerides - 1,580 (high. Result repeated and verified)
Cholesterol - 288
HDL Cholesterol - 25 (Low. Result repeated and verified)
Chol/HDL ratio 11.5 (high)

C-Reactive Protein - 9.65 (high)

A1C Hemoglobin - 7.3 (high according to the normal parameters used by this particular lab, but not too excessive according to the doctor)

C-Peptide - 14.5 (high. Result repeated and verified)

Hemotology:

Platelet Count - 449 (high)
Sedimentation rate - 75 (high)

Urinalysis:

Protein - 300 (high)
Glucose - 100 (high)
Hemoglobin - Trace

Urine Microscopic:

WBC - 3-5 (high)


He didn't order a creatinine clearance test as he was leaving town the next day and wont be back until this month. She has an appointment on the 21st, and we'll be doing that then. The last one she had, done in February was >5,000. He also is thinking about putting her on a cholesterol med. but didn't want to do that until he got back in case she has side effects from it.

Her thyroid is fine. T4 total is 8.4 and TSH is 1.879. Liver function results are normal. AST is 23 and ALT is 28. Her ANA Screen was negative.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Most definately get your daughter (entire family) tested both a serum test which should take several days and you may be able to get it ordered by the doctor's office while they are away and genetic test for A1AD, this takes longer, U of Florida does this as well or you may be able to do the same at Vandy. A serum test may be in the normal range because it is an acute reactant all the more reason to get the phenotype test even if it is to rule A1AD out, a normal serum test does not rule it out. Many people are asymptomatic and few are tested even though there are approximately 12% of the population with some form of this disorder. Persons with a varient form, 1 bad gene, are considered carriers and thought by some not to have problems but that is not true, but haveing 1 good gene helps manage health conditions that may be more serious with a full deficiency and it may take years before symptoms become noticable.

Some of the things you describe could be attributed to A1AD, also there may be other genetic disorders not diagnosed as well. None of these are standard tests in otherwise healthy children and it could take years to diagnose, It is estimated tha 95% of persons with A1AD are never diagnosed, so the lack of lab tests is not unusual, nor did they diagnose exactly the cause of your daughter's test results. All the referals have been appropriate, however she may still need a GI/children's liver specialist and possibly a hematologist. Here is a link re protein analysis: Understanding and Interpreting Serum Protein Electrophoresis http://www.aafp.org/afp/20050101/105.html

Alpha-1-Antitrypsin is a proteiase inhibitor that effects more than just Antitrypsin, which is a pancriatic enzyme. It also effects elastin, collegan, the immune system, eyes, blood clotting factors vW VIII & XIa (thrombin) and is an acute reactant, remember that blood clot after the biopsy? NO response to antibiotic? Either not the correct drug for the infection, viral infection or not able to metabloize through the liver for some reason look up p450. Contact the Alpha 1 Foundaiton,
Alpha One Foundation http://www.alphaone.org/ they are very helpful with researching your questions and communicating with your doctors as well. Visit their site for more information. Here is a link about A1AD in ped's patients http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/svc/alpha/l/liver/diseases/alpha-1-antitrypsin.htm


Contact the Department of Medicine, Vanderbilt University Medical Center and specifically ask about this possibility? If they drew blood recently they may already have enough for the test. You can contact the Alpha-1-Antitrypsin foundation for free testing. Also research A1AD in children and liver disorders. Please keep me updated

 

[panzertanker]

Oh... I don't know him well enough to be in the will, so if I get no money, neither do any of you! *Neenerneenerneener*

That's it MG, I am calling your buddy, John Tesh (he fits your profile of having money and touring with one person )
and telling him that you do not share, and that I should get ALL of his money!!!

 

[Whyte Noise]

That's it MG, I am calling your buddy, John Tesh (he fits your profile of having money and touring with one person )
and telling him that you do not share, and that I should get ALL of his money!!!

John Tesh?!?! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH! You can have all that money. Bleh!

Was he ever in a band?? LOL

Rmet, I'll be calling the foundation about getting the fingerstick test. Since she and I both test daily anyways, one more fingerstick won't make a difference.

 

[panzertanker]

John Tesh?!?! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH! You can have all that money. Bleh!

Was he ever in a band?? LOL

Rmet, I'll be calling the foundation about getting the fingerstick test. Since she and I both test daily anyways, one more fingerstick won't make a difference.

You may want to talk to your MD about different testing methods. There are new ways to test other than your fingers, and you can preserve your sensitive fingertips....

 

[rmet4nzkx]

John Tesh?!?! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH! You can have all that money. Bleh!

Was he ever in a band?? LOL

Rmet, I'll be calling the foundation about getting the fingerstick test. Since she and I both test daily anyways, one more fingerstick won't make a difference.

Good and make sure that if you only get a serum level and not the phenotype test done that you don't take a normal range level as a negative, actually anything less than midrange may at least show some functional deficit. I will be curious what your phenotypes are.