quick help needed.

[stomperx]

What is the name of your state? NY

long story short, 13 year old son in middle school. over the weekend, his former friend made many calls (20+ calls in 4 hours) to my son, harrassing him about his girlfriend. i say former friend, because they had a falling out over summer because of this girlfriend.
school on monday: is a confrontation between the two boys. he is sent to vice prin. office. they question him. (school has already been informed by me they are not to question him, unless i am there, for any reason.) they also make him write a statement for the argument and the myspace account.
then they call me, precede to inform me of this argument. and add that my son has created a myspace account as a parody of a teacher. he is sentenced to 4 days of OSS immediately.
it turns out that the former friend involved in the argument, was also involved in the myspace account: the boys made this myspace together before they quit being friends over summer. the boys are equally guilty. however:
parents of other boy called me: their son has been serving inschool suspension this week. vice prin told them on monday, there would be a principal hearing for both boys on friday, at which time further discipline will be decided. the second boy WAS "written up" for the argument, but it is my understanding his ISS is due to the myspace account only.
my son was then "ordered" to attend an alternative school for these four days of OSS. i refused to send my son to this alternative school. the school is billed as an "alternative" to an "unstructured OSS where the child stays home". i object to this school for many reasons. the other boy was not given OSS.
i have asked the school several times what happens monday: does he go to his regular school? no one can tell me.
i finally am able to talk to vice prin today. she finally tells me today AFTER i demand another conference, that there IS in fact a principal hearing scheduled for my son on friday as well, to determine further punishment. when i ask her why she is only just now informing me of this, she says she only just found out. when i tell her quite bluntly that she knew this MONDAY, she took an attitude, and told me she does not have to inform me of anything according to any schedule.
in regards to the argument between the two boys: my son did not touch the other boy. the other boy shoved my son. according to that boys mother, he is not in trouble at school for this argument because the evidence against him is purely "hearsay".?????!!!!!!
in regards to the online account: i deleted it immediately. and i have already seen a few cases where the aclu has been involved, and basically it has been decided that this is free speech and my son can not be suspended for it. however, he already has been?
what are my rights? my son is no angel, i am not defending his actions. i am trying to protect my son from the school that told me "you are stupid" and "you have given up your parental rights the day you enrolled in public school".
i have been present when this vice prin. questioned my son in other matters, and i have seen how she lays verbal traps, deliberatly confuses the issues, and "leads" the conversation to get the responses she wants: a thirteen year old boy is simply no match.
she takes the situations personally. for example: asked him a yes or no answer: he said no, very honestly. the next day she asks him the same question in a diff way, he responds with a no, but with more info. she immediately accused him of lieing because, even though he answered the same way as the first time she asked, he added more. then her entire demeanor changed: "you lied to ME". she took it as a personal insult to her, and her treatment of my son since then has changed: she is now jumping on any excuse to punish.
but back to today: in conversation today, she tells me that she now has an email alledgedly from my son. this email was supposedly sent to my high school aged daughters friend from my son. this email supposedly states that my son is threatening to get a switchblade and stab someone. my son denies this, says no such email exists. i have no idea how this email came to be at my sons school.
to complicate this even more: there is a group of kids at his school that he simply does not get along with. everytime my son has been called to the office, it is because these other boys have said "he did this" or "he did that". there is a definite pattern that the school refuses to aknowledge. when my son voices a defense, the vice prin simply says that my sons defense is "hearsay".
in reading our handbook and in conversation with other parents: before the school can do an OSS, the parent MUST have a principal hearing TWICE. neither i nor my son have ever had such a meeting in 4+ years at this school.
they are now threatening all kinds of action against both my son and myself: permanent expulsion, charging my son with liable and slander, refusing to allow him to return to school until he serves the 4 days at the alternative school, they are hinting at charging me for refusing to send him. they are even threatening sending the police to my house in regards to the myspace.
as stated: he is no angel. he has had several detentions for not doing homework, ISS for skipping detention, detention for swearing, and ISS for one fight last year (that he did not start). i am not trying to downplay his previous bad behavior, but he is now in a hostile type environment: it does not matter how he tries to improve, he is labeled and any screwup he now makes, no matter how minor, brings the full wrath of this vice prin down on him.
while serving a detention, he also got in trouble for drawing a picture. the picture had the initials SFU= the band Six Feet Under. he wrote the title for one song. granted, the song title was not appropriate, but he then got sent to the school counseler, who called me before (?) she interviewed him. during this interview, she asked permission to give him a questionair style evaluation to determine if he was a danger to himself or others. her analysis was that no, he was no danger to anyone, however she then lectured him and me about his choice of music. she attempted to use her own personal values to judge both my son and i, strictly because she personally does not approve of the music. in addition, he got 2 more detentions for the picture. let me clearify: this picture was NOT depicting a threat to anyone, they were just offended by it.
where do i go for help? i am trying to implement a CYA program. i want to get a MFE and/or an IEP. i am trying to get him an appointment with a private counciler, but that takes 2-3+ weeks. i am also moving to another state at the end of nov. i need this school to co-operate with me for only a few more weeks.
in regards to the OSS and the alternative school: that school is closed on friday. so his regular school is sending an inhome instructer for that day. they will pay for busing and the alternative school, they will pay for the inhome instructer. but when i ask them to help with an inhome tuter for our remaining time here, they refuse. it would be beneficial to all parties to offer him legal inhome schooling for this last month.
please help.

 

[quincy]

I apologize in advance for what I am going to say, because I have a feeling you won't want to hear it.

I think you need to get your son some help. He is, in many obvious ways, crying out for help. The best way for you to get him the help he needs is to let the experts who are trying to help your son do it without your interference. You seem to be fighting every suggestion, recommendation and accommodation the school is making for your son.

Your son's current school wants him to attend the alternative school and, from what you have posted, I agree that that is where your son belongs. There is a reason for this. The alternative schools have smaller class sizes and teachers who are trained to deal with disruptive students and students with needs beyond the regular classroom. There are counselors trained to deal with children like your son, and there are police on hand to deal with altercations.

Your son has already accumulated quite a list of violations at his current school, some rather serious. Your post suggests that you believe your son's problems are due to those around him - the vice principal is a problem, the other students are a problem, his former friend is a problem, a teacher is the problem. The problem, stomperx, is your son, and your inability to accept that fact. I understand defending your son - you love him - but you are not helping him by shifting the blame for his behavior on others.

I suggest that you contact the new school he will be attending in November and set up an appointment for an IEP in advance. Have the new school contact the current school about doing an evaluation before you leave. In the meantime, have your son attend the alternative school as requested and required.

 

[Just Blue]

I apologize in advance for what I am going to say, because I have a feeling you won't want to hear it.

I think you need to get your son some help. He is, in many obvious ways, crying out for help. The best way for you to get him the help he needs is to let the experts who are trying to help your son do it without your interference. You seem to be fighting every suggestion, recommendation and accommodation the school is making for your son.

Your son's current school wants him to attend the alternative school and, from what you have posted, I agree that that is where your son belongs. There is a reason for this. The alternative schools have smaller class sizes and teachers who are trained to deal with disruptive students and students with needs beyond the regular classroom. There are counselors trained to deal with children like your son, and there are police on hand to deal with altercations.

Your son has already accumulated quite a list of violations at his current school, some rather serious. Your post suggests that you believe your son's problems are due to those around him - the vice principal is a problem, the other students are a problem, his former friend is a problem, a teacher is the problem. The problem, stomperx, is your son, and your inability to accept that fact. I understand defending your son - you love him - but you are not helping him by shifting the blame for his behavior on others.

I suggest that you contact the new school he will be attending in November and set up an appointment for an IEP in advance. Have the new school contact the current school about doing an evaluation before you leave. In the meantime, have your son attend the alternative school as requested and required.

Excellent advice!!

 

[stealth2]

I have to say that I agree.

 

[lealea1005]

I agree with all of the above posters. In addition, unless your son has a documented learning disability (ADHD, processing disorder, dyslexia, etc) your chances of your son qualifying for an IEP are slim to none.

IMO, I think the alternative school is the best way to go for all the reasons quincy pointed out. Good luck.

 

[stomperx]

I apologize in advance for what I am going to say, because I have a feeling you won't want to hear it.

I think you need to get your son some help. He is, in many obvious ways, crying out for help. The best way for you to get him the help he needs is to let the experts who are trying to help your son do it without your interference. You seem to be fighting every suggestion, recommendation and accommodation the school is making for your son.

Your son's current school wants him to attend the alternative school and, from what you have posted, I agree that that is where your son belongs. There is a reason for this. The alternative schools have smaller class sizes and teachers who are trained to deal with disruptive students and students with needs beyond the regular classroom. There are counselors trained to deal with children like your son, and there are police on hand to deal with altercations.

Your son has already accumulated quite a list of violations at his current school, some rather serious. Your post suggests that you believe your son's problems are due to those around him - the vice principal is a problem, the other students are a problem, his former friend is a problem, a teacher is the problem. The problem, stomperx, is your son, and your inability to accept that fact. I understand defending your son - you love him - but you are not helping him by shifting the blame for his behavior on others.

I suggest that you contact the new school he will be attending in November and set up an appointment for an IEP in advance. Have the new school contact the current school about doing an evaluation before you leave. In the meantime, have your son attend the alternative school as requested and required.

actually? you may have missed the bigger picture? i lumped the issues together because this all happened at the same time. lets take these one at a time.

unless you have more intimate knowledge of my sons school history, you are making some huge assumptions about him and the violations. over three years, his violations amount to not doing homework and swearing. there was one fight that he did not start, he was jumped. since when does self defense warrant such extreme measures? punishment for lack of homework was served thru detention and reflected in his grades. he served his time already.
actually, you rather sadden me. to think that a 13 year old that doesn't do his homework should be in an environment that includes inner city gang members, drug dealers, 18-20 year old students placed there for bringing weaons to school etc.... yes, i am in denial. i simply fail to see how THAT is in my sons best interest.
wow. you are right. i don't want to hear what you are saying. somehow, you have become judge, jury, guidance councelor and mental health expert. you were able to glean enough knowledge about my son to to advise me that i should step back and let the school raise him and then commit him? that i should not defend my son against such blatant, unfair treatment? is that how you raise your kids?


the myspace: the school has no jurisdiction. according to my research, the school can not punish him because of this. he is day three into a 4 day suspension. i have another meeting with the school today: the two boys are equally guilty. the second boy is NOT being punished the same. again do you not see the problem here? the other boy has admitted to an equal part. the other boy has the same record in regards to homework and detentions etc, but lets add smoking cigs and pot to his record, and lieing about it. if the teacher involved wants to file charges, that is her right. but do so in the proper setting: the police station and not the school. this issue has repeatedly been upheld as a freedom of speech issue, NOT a school issue. regardless: right or wrong on my sons part is not in question. right or wrong on the schools part is the issue. do you see the distinction here?

the argument: after a weekend of harrassment by the other boy with a total of 20-30 phone calls from this boy in which the boy did everything in his power to upset my son because of the girl, this other boy then confronted my son in the hallway. the other boy pushed my son. my son did NOT initiate the argument. my son did NOT initiate the calls. my son did NOT touch the boy. my son simply raised his voice and swore at the other boy. the other boy has freely admitted his starring role in both issues to his parents and the school and to me. the school says the other boys actions are purely hearsay even though he has admitted it AND it was witnessed. the phone calls were also done as a "three way", with a third boy from school. with my phone company, i need to wait until the billing cycle ends in order to get the print out of his incoming/outgoing calls to prove this. the third boy is in no trouble whatsoever, even though he was named by BOTH boys. um HELLO????? report the calls to the police? sure. they instruct you to dial * 67 or something, and THEN call the police. the calls are traced. but if the kids "block" caller id, or you get another call etc, the calls can't be traced i believe. if i am wrong, that is my mistake.

this email: we do not know anything about it. i have not even seen it. my son denies he wrote this. until proven otherwise, i am chosing to believe my son. at this point, he knows he is in so much trouble that lieing about this would not do him a bit of good. if this email is in fact legit, it will be easy to prove. however, an email such as this is also very, very easy for other kids to create. these would be the same kids he has had trouble with. repeatedly. i have, in the past, doubted my sons defense based on the attitude and questioning done by the school, i have willingly and openly supported the school. but NOW in THIS instance, everything my son is saying is being backed up by other people. in hindsight, the things he has said about other issues when i DID side with the school, my son is now proving that he was telling the truth in those instances.


the picture drawn: maybe you can think back to when you were in eigth grade: you ever doodle on a piece of paper???? did you ever get in trouble for it????? he was not hurting anyone. he was minding his own business, serving his detention for not doing homework. this is now a capital offense for a 13 year old??? i only mentioned this picture to give everyone a broader picture of the schools mentality, to try and show how they over react. the picture was of a band. you do not need to approve of the music, but do not let your own personal taste in music make you better than someone else. if you like opera, and i like country music, does that make you better than me?????? WHERE is the crime???

the alternative school does not have smaller classes. they do not have "teachers". the kid is sent to a room with 25-30 other students. the school sends his work. the "teacher" simply acts as a chaperone, a glorified babysitter, in the room while the kids do the work sent by their own teachers: the "teacher" can not teach because the kids in the room all come from many schools and range in age from 6th grade to 12th grade. this school is filled with many violent offenders. my son does not fit that discription. as explained to me by the school: the reasons for sending my son here are purely financial: our school has a contract. they pay for x amount of kids there. the kids attendance there counts as attendance at the regular school, and the school gets the regular state funding based on attendance. if i keep my son at home for his OUT of school suspension, the school does not get their money. do you understand this part???

you did get one part correct. my son IS crying out for help. there is no way a 13 year old can stand up for his rights in this situation. i would hope for your childs sake, that if your child were in this situation, as his parent, you WOULD HELP and PROTECT him. if you would blindly allow the school to do as they wish with your child, you should give up all parental rights and contact with your kid. your response implies that you are not in touch with the reality in which the schools routinely overstep their authority. they have taken the zero tolerance policies and run with them. if this were any other institution, say a bank or a grocery store etc, their actions would not be tolerated by the general public or their employees. wake up.

 

[mb94]

The school doesn't have to punish both boys equally for the same infraction. And "but the other kids got away with it" isn't a valid defense. Maybe the other kid seemed more sorry. Maybe he doesn't have an attitude. Maybe he confessed to it. Life isn't fair. I'm not sure where you got the idea that the school has to treat everyone exactly the same, they don't. They can't treat students differently based on race or religion, but they can treat them diffirently because one has a bad attitude and the other doesn't. Or because one has an annoying mother and the other doesn't.

Also, the school is well within it's rights to discipline them for the myspace page that they made to mock a teacher. It is disrespectful to the teacher and the school. If your research has said that it is free speech, then go back to the library. Impersonating another person and making libelous statements about them is not free speech. Free speech doesn't mean that you have the right to do and say whatever you want. Your right to swing your arms wildly ends where my nose begins. Once your son infringed on the teacher's right to privacy, then his "free speech" no longer applied.

I can see you in three years, standing in front of a judge and complaining that it isn't fair that your son got three years in prison when the other co-defendants only got two. You are missing the forrest from the trees. You are so concerned with making sure that your son is treated fairly and nicely and never has to deal with anything unpleasant that you've raised a thug.

 

[stomperx]

wow, thanks for the advice you guys. really appreciate it.

Mb, you should read through some of the other threads here, and take a trip back to the library yourself. the school does not have the authority to discipline because of the myspace. this is well documented. these are just two links from other sources. i have seen this same internet situation discussed on here as well.

http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/youth/25381prs20060427.html
http://www.fmew.com/archive/web/

the defense is not that the other kids got away with it. the defense is, that the boys harrassed my son. when brought face to face, the other boy started the argument. the other boy then layed hands on my son and pushed him. my son did NOT fight back, did not touch the other boy at all. um hello????? NOT the actions of a thug.
if my son can be in trouble for actions that took place out of school, why not the other boys, starting with the harrassment??????
and if being an involved parent makes me annoying, so be it. the alternative is to be a doormatt and let the school have all encompassing power over my child. that may be ok for you, but not me.

and Mb? this sentence of yours:
Free speech doesn't mean that you have the right to do and say whatever you want.

just what exactly is free speech???? not allowed to say what you want???? are you kidding me????? wow. are you a lawyer?

i am very curious which side of the brain you guys are thinking with? are you all employed by schools and uniting purely out of a sense of brotherhood and a sense of duty to your union? since when does a kid who doesn't do homework equal a thug? there was nothing said about a bad attitude? in fact my son is consistantly complimented to me by the school officials on his politeness, his co-operation and his respectful attitude. did you miss the part where he was deemed no threat BY the school??

maybe i misunderstood. i thought this forum was based on the law.

 

[quincy]

stomperx -

Free speech has limits, and lawsuits are being filed at a rate of over four a month for libelous material posted on sites such as MySpace. Your son and his friend (and the parents of both boys) could very well be sued over defamatory content posted about the teacher.

You are right that the ACLU is involved in some suits over free speech on the Internet. They are not involved in suits over libelous postings, however, as even the ACLU recognizes that you cannot shout "fire!" in a crowded theater. Free speech is only free when it is legal. Otherwise it costs a lot of money in attorney fees and court fees and damages awarded.

I can see from your recent postings that you are not willing to accept help from anyone who doesn't agree that your son is being railroaded by everyone, and he is just a misunderstood boy. I don't buy that assessment. And I think you are doing a lot of harm to your son by believing that, as well.

Accept the help that is being offered. THAT is how you demonstrate your love for your son.

 

[stomperx]

Quincy:

the aclu is involved with exactly the same case as my son is involved with. only difference would be the names of the kids involved. i believe i posted a link to it earlier.
and you obviously missed the bigger picture: the SCHOOL does not have the authority to disipline/punish in the manner they did.
having said that: IF the teacher chooses to pursue this matter in CIVIL court, then yes, she has full authority etc. but YOU need to see the difference: CIVIL vs SCHOOL.

in regards to this other email threat i mentioned earlier, it was investigated fully by the police. it simply did not happen. it was an accusation lobbied by the other boy in this case, simply to get my son in more trouble.

as it turns out, we reached a settlement of sorts. my son will return to school on monday like normal. the school will not pursue this further if i don't pursue this further. neither side has the time or desire to make this a federal case. the school does not have a defense for THEIR action.
but understand Quincy and everyone else: you guys jumped the gun here. you simply assumed that my kid was a problem kid with issues. wow. you refused to see past your own pompass assessment based on your own superior attitudes. i very thoroughly believe that you guys are affiliated with schools, and you let "oh the poor teacher" cloud your ability to separate the true issues here. not every parent that posts here has mentally disturbed kids that are "crying out desperately" for mental health help, and not every parent is looking to keep their hoodlum child out of trouble. some of us have very normal kids that make mistakes. go figure, a 13 year old that made an honest mistake.

all in all, i was very disappointed in this forum. there was no "law" here. this should not be billed as a legal advice forum, this should be billed as a "only post here if you want your child labeled, your parenting judged, and you want to be told that your kid is a mental case that should be institutionalized, because the regular posters here seem to be under the impression that good kids never screw up forum".
what a disappointment. the pompass nature with which you guys decided to be judge, jury and mental health expert prevented you from clearly seeing the legal issues involved. since you posting members on this board don't seem to be able to view these issues with complete impartial neutrality, maybe you guys shouldn't give "advice" on these issues anymore. you few that responded here were very, very far away from being impartial: you let your own personal feelings get in the way.
you guys really need to wake up and understand that the school and teachers are not always right. when you finally accept the fact that maybe they make mistakes as well, then you might be in a position to give parents legal advice.

 

[lealea1005]

What is the name of your state? NY

long story short, 13 year old son in middle school. over the weekend, his former friend made many calls (20+ calls in 4 hours) to my son, harrassing him about his girlfriend. i say former friend, because they had a falling out over summer because of this girlfriend.
school on monday: is a confrontation between the two boys.
as stated: he is no angel. he has had several detentions for not doing homework, ISS for skipping detention, detention for swearing, and ISS for one fight last year (that he did not start). i am not trying to downplay his previous bad behavior, but he is now in a hostile type environment: it does not matter how he tries to improve, he is labeled and any screwup he now makes, no matter how minor, brings the full wrath of this vice prin down on him.
while serving a detention, he also got in trouble for drawing a picture. the picture had the initials SFU= the band Six Feet Under. he wrote the title for one song. granted, the song title was not appropriate.....

Your son made more than 1 "honest mistake". He has a history of repeated inappropriate behavior, which has gotten him in trouble at school several times. A 13 year old making an "honest mistake", is old enough to learn from the consequences of his mistake and endeavors NOT to get in trouble again. He is not in a "hostile environment". He is in a learning environment and his actions are disruptive to the scool's community. I applaud the vice principal for being on top of the situation. I hope, when he returns to school this week, he is able to begin fresh and make better choices with his behavior.

No one suggested "insitutionalizing" your son, the advice to place him in an alternative school, with smaller well controlled classes, was one of several suggestions for your situation.

Your "disappointment" in this site doesn't surprise me. You did not receive the answer you were looking for, therefore you become defensive and project your anger for your failure to parent on us.