Recovering property from landlord?

[Vance357]

HOWEVER , OP, if the law mandates such a sale , and your LL failed to have one conducted that gives you a good bit of leverage to sue under the law you say is there--and I doubt any DJ is going to cut the LL any breaks for doing it wrong.

It's worth noting that this landlord has been sued multiple times for similar issues, is on a first name basis with the police chief and every single officer for being a trouble maker, and makes a constant habbit out of doing things the wrong way.

I would estimate the possibility that he had an actual legal auction that was advertised correctly at about 2%. Probably less. To say this man is ignorant would be a massive compliment.

 

[justalayman]

I’m not going in circles. I’m responding to your incorrect statements although I did add a bit of advice suggesting you don’t piss off a judge before you even see one.

You do what you want. I saw nothing obligating you to make a demand for payment of your property. That means you can skip right to filing suit.
Of course if the landlord has complied with the requirements of the law and shows there was much less than the $6000 realized, well, that’s all you get.

 

[HRZ]

You are looking for answers as you think they should be--go back an read the law line by line for example prior notice :
(3) Prior to storing, selling or disposing of the tenant’s personal property under this section, the landlord must give a written notice to the tenant that must be:
(a) Personally delivered to the tenant; or
(b) Sent by first class mail addressed and mailed to the tenant at:
(A) The premises;
(B) Any post-office box held by the tenant and actually known to the landlord; and
(C) The most recent forwarding address if provided by the tenant or actually known to the landlord.
Which is likely the LL go right., then go down to section on contents ..did he get all the provisions right?

I don't know if auction value is depreciated value, but if replacement cost of X is $600 I d not jump to a lower valuation absent relevant facts of what counts.

There seems to be some wiggle room in law for holder to dispose of obvious junk --unwise for a LL to push that to extremes but hey I wasn't there and you didn't follow up.

To me, you credibility is badly hurt by lack of prompt follow up , efforts, requests, demands or whatever ..and I'd patch that as best I could tomorrow .

 

[Vance357]

I’m not going in circles. I’m responding to your incorrect statements although I did add a bit of advice suggesting you don’t piss off a judge before you even see one.

You do what you want. I saw nothing obligating you to make a demand for payment of your property. That means you can skip right to filing suit.
Of course if the landlord has complied with the requirements of the law and shows there was much less than the $6000 realized, well, that’s all you get.

So do I need to make a "good faith effort", or not? You still are in fact going around in circles. The lawsuit form posted clearly states I must make a "good faith effort". I'm simply asking what form to use or if I need one at all, no need to get pissy.

Also, as I already explained, the landlord gave me a letter stating in his own words he believes the property to have a value of more than $1,000 and intends to have a sale if not collected. This is a simple piece of paper I can show in any court. He can't change his mind now and say it was worth less.

 

[Vance357]

You are looking for answers as you think they should be--go back an read the law line by line for example prior notice :
(3) Prior to storing, selling or disposing of the tenant’s personal property under this section, the landlord must give a written notice to the tenant that must be:
(a) Personally delivered to the tenant; or
(b) Sent by first class mail addressed and mailed to the tenant at:
(A) The premises;
(B) Any post-office box held by the tenant and actually known to the landlord; and
(C) The most recent forwarding address if provided by the tenant or actually known to the landlord.
Which is likely the LL go right., then go down to section on contents ..did he get all the provisions right?

Quite simply, NO, the landlord did not get any of that right. He doesn't know what he's doing as a landlord.

 

[Vance357]

the law says “up to twice”. I presume it’s judicial discretion as to the amount.

This is where is gets back to chasing tails before you go to court. If you do nothing and even if the landlord owes you money but it was easily remedied by you contacting then landlord, especially if the judge is a “landlord friendly” judge, that “up to” may become nothing over actual value.


So generally, it isn’t wise to assume much of anything.

ORS 90.425
"The landlord is not responsible for any loss to the tenant, lienholder or owner resulting from storage of personal property in compliance with this section unless the loss was caused by the landlord’s deliberate or negligent act. In the event of a deliberate and malicious violation, the landlord is liable for twice the actual damages sustained by the tenant, lienholder or owner."

In other words, if the landlord didn't hold a proper sale, he is now liable for twice the cost. Not "up to".

 

[Eekamouse]

How is it that you were evicted by a sheriff?

 

[Vance357]

How is it that you were evicted by a sheriff?

Not relevant, I'm not going to take this post even further off topic.

 

[HRZ]

Well if LL blew notice..he may have blown contents of notice too?
(5) The notice required under subsection (3) of this section must state that:
(a) The personal property left upon the premises is considered abandoned;
(b) The tenant or any lienholder or owner must contact the landlord by a specified date, as provided in subsection (6) of this section, to arrange for the removal of the abandoned personal property;
(c) The personal property is stored at a place of safekeeping, except that if the property includes a manufactured dwelling or floating home, the dwelling or home must be stored on the rented space;
(d) The tenant or any lienholder or owner, except as provided by subsection (18) of this section, may arrange for removal of the personal property by contacting the landlord at a described telephone number or address on or before the specified date;
(e) The landlord shall make the personal property available for removal by the tenant or any lienholder or owner, except as provided by subsection (18) of this section, by appointment at reasonable times;
(f) If the personal property is considered to be abandoned pursuant to subsection (2)(a) or (b) of this section, the landlord may require payment of removal and storage charges, as provided by subsection (7)(d) of this section, prior to releasing the personal property to the tenant or any lienholder or owner;
(g) If the personal property is considered to be abandoned pursuant to subsection (2)(c) of this section, the landlord may not require payment of storage charges prior to releasing the personal property;
(h) If the tenant or any lienholder or owner fails to contact the landlord by the specified date, or after that contact, fails to remove the personal property within 30 days for recreational vehicles, manufactured dwellings and floating homes or 15 days for all other personal property, the landlord may sell or dispose of the personal property. If the landlord reasonably believes that the personal property will be eligible for disposal pursuant to subsection (10)(b) of this section and the landlord intends to dispose of the property if the property is not claimed, the notice shall state that belief and intent; and


HOWEVER
1. The LL may be a certified rotten apple --but right now that doesn't count.

2. Your credibiliy suffers if you dont make a prompt prudent effort to recover the stuff...form of your efforts may not be as important as getting it started and content...IE two different transmission forms of email and snailmail letter demanding return of all your stuff and asking for a time with suggestions as to times to get it picked up , and repeat !
2.1 Personally I'd not send lists of depreciated items/values --for all he knows there may have been 1507 items there ---and I'll bet there are 15000 in my garage alone
2.2 Forget the rules, there is a general requirement that you take steps to mitigate your damages --and as plaintiff its up to you to move your points forward...but if the judge asks what did you do to arrange prompt pick up and you stick your foot in non responsive mouth..you lost it .

 

[Vance357]

HRZ, I appreciate your help and you actually sticking to the topic at hand.

The landlord did give ONE correct notice, about the property, asserting that it was worth more than $1,000 and would be sold if not retrieved in the specified time, which I ignored.

I ignored this notice because:
1. At this time the landlord was threatening me and harassing me, I had to call the police 5 different times. I did not want to go back to the premises, and this is documented.
2. I am disabled and the property in question is large and heavy, it was not possible to arrange for it to be moved in the limited time I was given nor could I move it myself.
3. The landlord purposely tried to hurry my move to unreasonable levels, I strongly suspect so that he could keep my stuff illegally.
4. I was told I had at least one year to recover the property or the money the property turned into after I left the property.
5. I moved to a different state making it nearly impossible to collect truckloads of items from 3,0000 miles away.
6. I knowingly gave up any rights to the actual property however still should hold the right to it's fair value even if I was just lazy and it hasn't been a year.

 

[HRZ]

If you are 3000 miles away you face some logistical issues to appear in court ..and LL knows it.

IF LL gave you correct notice at the time then all the excuses in your list wont help you ( and that's not what you posted earlier) ...you failed to take prompt steps to do anything appropriate--had you showed up with van and he denied you access it would be all different ...even a threat to shoot you on sight , if he wrote same ...might give you an excuse the judge buys --but you haven't listed a sale-able one yet.

What you were told about one year does NOT count unless you have law or contract that says it does. The specified time in the notice is very likely your end date.

I still think written demand(S) for your stuff might help whatever slim odds you have from being zero odds.

If the LL skipped the disposal steps he has a weakness ---but you are not postured to make use of it ....and even if you create the window --your logistical costs to appear in court may be killers---and I don't know about you area ..but I could pretty easily get one postponement locally so if you were planning a trip to be here in June---bet I could get 1 change a week before to July or next window on judges calendar?

NOT a lawyer, just a layman.

 

[Vance357]

The bottom line remains:

No matter how lazy I might have been or how many things I ignored, it does not transfer my property ownership. It always remains mine (or the value of it) unless I sign it over or owe money, neither of which happened. It can be sold but the money remains mine, the LL can never have it or make use of it.

No matter what happened the LL has to either return the actual property, or come up with a real good reason why not. If he doesn't have the actual property, he must have a detailed accounting of each item. We are talking about a lot of items. Can't get rid of it without it being accounted for.

The property in question took up a lot of space therefore I suspect it's already been "dealt with" and by the LL's own admission, worth more than the $1,000 cutoff for trash. It's possible he still has it all in storage somewhere but unlikely.

But the question remains:
Before I start an actual lawsuit for the value should I send a simple demand letter either for the stuff or an accounting of said stuff?

I travel back and fourth regularly so it wouldn't be too hard to file a lawsuit there. Also the LL doesn't know where I live, only a forwarding address at a private box in the same city.

 

[HRZ]

I would have MULTIPLE clear demand letters by different modes underway tomorrow morning . And keep copies and repeat in about 10 days demanding access to pick up all my stuff ...and be prepared to do just that if he calls your hand.

 

[justalayman]

ORS 90.425
"The landlord is not responsible for any loss to the tenant, lienholder or owner resulting from storage of personal property in compliance with this section unless the loss was caused by the landlord’s deliberate or negligent act. In the event of a deliberate and malicious violation, the landlord is liable for twice the actual damages sustained by the tenant, lienholder or owner."

In other words, if the landlord didn't hold a proper sale, he is now liable for twice the cost. Not "up to".

What section are you quoting. This is what I found;

17) If a landlord does not comply with this section:
(a) The tenant is relieved of any liability for damage to the premises caused by conduct that was not deliberate, intentional or grossly negligent and for unpaid rent and may recover from the landlord up to twice the actual damages sustained by the tenant;

Oh, i see. You’re quoting a section regarding damages to your property while stored. Presuming the property is long gone that obviously won’t apply.

But even in your section the damage must be deliberate AND malicious for you to recover double damages.

 

[justalayman]

The bottom line remains:

No matter how lazy I might have been or how many things I ignored, it does not transfer my property ownership. It always remains mine (or the value of it) unless I sign it over or owe money, neither of which happened. It can be sold but the money remains mine, the LL can never have it or make use of it.

No matter what happened the LL has to either return the actual property, or come up with a real good reason why not. If he doesn't have the actual property, he must have a detailed accounting of each item. We are talking about a lot of items. Can't get rid of it without it being accounted for.

The property in question took up a lot of space therefore I suspect it's already been "dealt with" and by the LL's own admission, worth more than the $1,000 cutoff for trash. It's possible he still has it all in storage somewhere but unlikely.

But the question remains:
Before I start an actual lawsuit for the value should I send a simple demand letter either for the stuff or an accounting of said stuff?

I travel back and fourth regularly so it wouldn't be too hard to file a lawsuit there. Also the LL doesn't know where I live, only a forwarding address at a private box in the same city.

I see nothing in the law itself. If the template states you must make a valid demand before filing suit, then that’s what you do. It is likely something based in the rules of civil procedure and not specific to this issue.

The landlord has a real good reason why he doesn’t have the property; you didn’t claim it within the allotted time frame. But if he still has it, then with as much as you suggest there is, the storage fees may consume the value of the property. This could all be in vain.



I’m not sure what relevence the landlord not knowing where you live is. As soon as he is served with a suit he will know where you live. You must reveal that or hire an attorney to represent you so the defendant has a valid address to send anything due to the suit to you.