Request of Discovery, misled

[JIMinCA]

Wow ... WHERE did I say anything like that?

What I said was that intentionally disobeying the law with the intent to use whatever loophole or maneuver available to avoid the consequences is reprehensible. Doing something that is wrong, intentionally, just because you can get away with it is immoral.

It is one thing to apply due process, it is quite another to commit intentional wrongdoing.

That is why most of us never have to go to court more than once, if at all ... we try NOT to break the rules.


- Carl

Post # 25 above is where you said something like that.

I agree that doing something wrong just because you may be able to get away with it is wrong. However, you and I appear to part company when I apply that same concept to the state. As I have stated before, I would argue that 95% of the speeding tickets written in California could be easily defended against because the State simply does not follow its own rules. I also have evidence of the State intentionally not following its own rules to the detriment of unsuspecting motorists.

Case in point:

I was issued a speeding ticket (VC22349) on a two lane highway (hwy 178) by CHP. The speed limit on this road was 60mph. It drops down (for no apparent reason) to 50mph for a half-mile stretch. I got caught in the 50mph zone. At the time, I asked the cop if he thought the speed limit was justified by a traffic engineering survey. He stated that he was positive it was. As I left, he was in the process of pulling over another "speeder" in the same zone.

I went to court, produced a copy of the traffic engineering survey which clearly showed the speed limit was unjustified (speed trap as per California VC) and had the ticket dismissed. But, I am sure the other motorist wasn't so lucky.

About a month after this, a friend asked me to help them with a speeding ticket. This ticke was issued in the same place as mine!!! And it was issued by the SAME COP!!! He knew it was an unjustified speed limit, yet he was still writing tickets!!!


Out of 50 tickets he may have written in that one spot, I am probably the only one (and now my friend) who challenged him. This is where I say that the concept of "do no wrong even if you think you won't get caught" applies. Who holds that cop accountable? Who gives him a ticket? Who stands up to the State for not following its own rules? The answer: I do... and those like me do. We are the minority of people who will stand up for our rights and not allow the State to take advantage of us simply because it is inconvenient.

Now, if you believe only half of my arrogant claim that 95% of speeding tickets could be defended easily because the state doesn't follow its own rules... that would mean that about 47.5% of all speeding ticket revenue would go away. California already has its hands in my pocket so much I think we are on a date. But, for them to write inappropriate tickets just because the believe I'll pay them (or worse, go to traffic school) out of convenience is reprehinsible.

 

[JIMinCA]

Carl is one of the most respected members of this site. The accusation of his "bias" is easily refuted by posts of his that encourage the OP when there has clearly been a procedural error, the links to which I'll be happy to find if you want me to go to the trouble.

The valuable advice Carl offers on this site is based on his vast professional experience, and anyone that comes to this site is fortunate to have the benefit of his knowledge of California law. He is often argued with, and rarely proven incorrect.

In addition to offering his practical advice, he also encourages accountability and responsibilty, and there's not a damn thing wrong with that. I don't know why you seem to have a problem with him including his personal opinions, when you apparently have no problem availing yourself of that privilege.

Well... I don't really want to enter an argument about Carl's bias. However, I will point out that making the statement that he is biased is not a derogatory remark. We all have biases. I clearly have biases. I am only pointing out the fact that we simply look at the same issues from different perspectives. It is a "glass is half-empty or half-full" thing. I don't suggest that Carl is inappropriate. I never have. However, I do see that someone seeking opinions could do well to benefit from people with opposing perspectives. Then, they can make their own decisions.

I have read many of Carl's posts. Apart from being a bit preachy, I think he consistently offers good information to people. I'm just wondering why people such as yourself become so defensive of him when he doesn't appear to be defensive. He and I usually disagree, but I have never seen him act defensively. So... just what is your motivation?

 

[Zigner]

Jim -

Your arrogance astounds me. You drive as if rules don't apply to you and then find a loophole to get out of it.
Ok, you CLAIM you got out of a speeding ticket for exceeding the posted speed limit. Well, what about the folks who actually OBEY the posted speed limit? How unsafe do you (and others like you) make it for them?

Honestly, I find your stories unbelievable. Your advice of "break the law first, then find a way out second" is terrible.

Good day.

 

[JIMinCA]

Jim -

Your arrogance astounds me. You drive as if rules don't apply to you and then find a loophole to get out of it.
Ok, you CLAIM you got out of a speeding ticket for exceeding the posted speed limit. Well, what about the folks who actually OBEY the posted speed limit? How unsafe do you (and others like you) make it for them?

Honestly, I find your stories unbelievable. Your advice of "break the law first, then find a way out second" is terrible.

Good day.

Your arrogance astounds ME!!! I talk about getting a speeding ticket and you equate that to " drive as if rules don't apply to you and then find a loophole to get out of it." Since when does the California Vehicle Code become a "loophole"??? There are probably a dozen sections in the VC and many more court cases that speak about speed traps and how it is the obvious intent of the CA legislature to forbid engaging in such. By your analysis, every single person who comes here looking for opinions concerning a traffic ticket simply " drives as if rules don't apply to them and then look for a loophole to get out of it." I think your statement is the very height of arrogance!!

I honestly do not care if you find my stories to be unbelieveable. Truth is truth whether you choose to turn a blind eye to it or not. However, I'd like for you to refer me to the posts where I advocate breaking the law. Also, I'd like for you to explain to me how every single person who has come here for opinions has not allegedly broken the law themselves!!

I am more than a bit offended by your statements. I share an honest story that supports my perspective based on actual events. In this story I demonstrate how the State and its agents clearly abused the law and clearly had no intention of following their own rules, yet you are outraged at my actions!!! When did I go to sleep and wake up in Communist China??

It is not only the right, but it is the duty of each American citizen to criticize its government when its government is acting beyond its actual authority. If you read your history books, you'll see that a bit more than 200 years ago, we had a little argument with Britan for just that reason.

 

[Zigner]

Yep - your stories of evading all those tickets sure conjure up images of America breaking free of the oppressive British rule!

 

[JIMinCA]

Yep - your stories of evading all those tickets sure conjure up images of America breaking free of the oppressive British rule!

And your unconstructive quips sure conjure up images of what I scraped off the bottom of my shoe the last time I walked through the park.

 

[Zigner]

And your unconstructive quips sure conjure up images of what I scraped off the bottom of my shoe the last time I walked through the park.

Again, I really need to write this stuff down...priceless!

 

[>Charlotte<]

So... just what is your motivation?

My &#8220;motivation&#8221; is not to defend, but to respond to your reproach of the first post he made in this thread, your statement that perhaps he doesn&#8217;t belong on this forum (sarcasm, I&#8217;m sure, but a statement nevertheless), and your obvious belief that his bias influences his advice to an extent that it reduces it&#8217;s value to the OP. Your being allowed to make those statements is obviously within the rules of this forum, otherwise the posts would have been deleted. But I&#8217;m also allowed to let you know that I think you&#8217;re acting like a jerk.

Communist China? The Revolutionary War? Slandered and scorned?? Freakin&#8217; drama queen. I'm done with you.

 

[JIMinCA]

My “motivation” is not to defend, but to respond to your reproach of the first post he made in this thread, your statement that perhaps he doesn’t belong on this forum (sarcasm, I’m sure, but a statement nevertheless), and your obvious belief that his bias influences his advice to an extent that it reduces it’s value to the OP. Your being allowed to make those statements is obviously within the rules of this forum, otherwise the posts would have been deleted. But I’m also allowed to let you know that I think you’re acting like a jerk.

Communist China? The Revolutionary War? Slandered and scorned?? Freakin’ drama queen. I'm done with you.

First of all, you are quite defensive immediately following your claim to not be defensive. I challenge you to cite the post where I have suggested that Carl doesn't belong on this forum. Quite to the contrary, I have stated many times that he provides good, rational opinions and responses. I also have said that the OP is benefitted by seeing several opinions from several perspectives. This directly contradicts your inflamatory statements.

BTW... your statements above ARE in violation of the rules of this forum. I wonder if your post will be deleted.