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Safeway racially profiled and humiliated my brother!

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Mavurik

Junior Member
seniorjudge said:
It's not theft until they leave the store.
You're 100% wrong there. Theft requires intent to steal and if you conceal something inside a store, that's the intent that is needed to complete the act.
Yes, but you forget he didn't conceal something. He was just a customer. He didn't do anything wrong. That's why I'm so shocked with the responses here that imply that my brother was the one who did something wrong and not the manager. How ridiculous.
 


Mavurik

Junior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Your story changes, you never said he was arrested before.

You are looking to make a lot of money on a trumped up case.
Your brother goes into a store acts like he is going to steal something, then repeatedly returns to the store until he is confronted then claims the race card. :rolleyes:
Call the ACLU then :rolleyes:

California has laws against frivilous lawsuits.
He didn't act like he was going to steal something. He was accused of stealing on three separate occasions at three different Safeways. All three times he did nothing. I even think in the other instances he actually BOUGHT something. All he did in this instance was pick up a ravioli can and put it down. He didn't even carry anything! You guys are really ridiculous. He was just a regular customer and he was singled out because like the manager said, "blacks and mexicans have been stealing my alcohol".

This is not a frivilous lawsuit. If this goes to court it's safeway that won't have a leg to stand on. They're going to have to prove why they falsely arrested him with no proof and basically no reason for suspicion except for race. Why the manager didn't say anything to his friend. Why the manager wasn't properly trained and if he was, why did he violate his training. Why did other managers and employees violate their training on the other occassions. They're the ones that are going to have to be on the defense, not my brother. He did NOTHING, absolutely n-o-t-h-i-n-g wrong. I don't know how to spell it out more plainly for you.

I could see if he acted suspicious and like he was going to steal but he didn't. All it boils down to is they had no reason to stop him and say what they did.
 
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rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Mavurik said:
He didn't act like he was going to steal something. He was accused of stealing on three separate occasions at three different Safeways. All he did in this instance was pick up a ravioli can and put it down. He didn't even carry anything! You guys are really ridiculous.
So, his little plan is now discovered.
 

Mavurik

Junior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
So, his little plan is now discovered.
Wow, how sad. Instead of looking at this as something that the manager did wrong and not holding him accountable for his actions and words you're putting my brother on the defensive as if he was wrong for being a customer and sticking up for himself. There is no plan. That's just some idiotic assumption you would come up with to support your ignorant view that the manager should not be held accountable for what he did. He was just a customer and he was tired of getting picked on because of his race so he stuck up for himself this time. That's what's wrong with the law these days, innocent people get stepped on because of jerks like this manager who think they can get away with anything. Well, not anymore. If you don't like it then screw you. My brother will get his compensation and safeway will pay for their misconduct whether you like it or not. If this happens to you one day you'll be singing a different tune. I know right and wrong and it was wrong what that manager did to my brother and there are thousands of people who will feel the same way as soon as I spread the word about this incident.

I'm sorry. You can't go around yelling at customers accusing them of stealing and falsely arresting them when they haven't even done anything to warrant that type of accusation. If it was the other way around and my brother had stolen they would be making sure they get their justice. Now we're making sure my brother gets his justice and we have a lot more support than the ignorant people here who are trying to back up this racist manager.
 
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rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Mavurik said:
Wow, how sad. Instead of looking at this as something that the manager did wrong and not holding him accountable for his actions and words you're putting my brother on the defensive as if he was wrong for being a customer and sticking up for himself. There is no plan. He was just a customer and he was tired of getting picked on because of his race so he stuck up for himself this time. That's what's wrong with the law these days, innocent people get stepped on because of jerks like this manager who think they can get away with anything. Well, not anymore. If you don't like it then screw you. My brother will get his compensation and safeway will pay for their misconduct whether you like it or not.

I'm sorry. You can't go around yelling at customers accusing them of stealing and falsely arresting them when they haven't even done anything to warrant that type of accusation. If it was the other way around and my brother had stolen they would be making sure they get their justice. Now we're making sure my brother gets his justice and we have a lot more support than the ignorant people here who are trying to back up this racist manager.
You are the racist. Your story changes.
Your plans are clear, make a complaint but he has no damages so he will not find an attorney to take his case. Tell your brother to shop somewhere else and stop going into stores with no intent to buy anything and be sure to buy what he takes off the shelf. :rolleyes:
 

Mavurik

Junior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
You are the racist. Your story changes.
Your plans are clear, make a complaint but he has no damages so he will not find an attorney to take his case. Tell your brother to shop somewhere else and stop going into stores with no intent to buy anything and be sure to buy what he takes off the shelf. :rolleyes:
The story doesn't change. It's just that I'm not being very careful with my words here and I admit that because I don't have the time. I don't have time to go back and check if my posts are exactly correlating. If you want to assume that changes in the words I use means my story is changing then go ahead and take everything that literally. However, there is one main issue here that doesn't change. My brother was falsely arrested and he was completely innocent. We are very loyal customers to safeway and in fact, that's the only grocery store I shop at because I think they have great deals. However, in this case the manager was wrong towards my brother and that's as plain as day.

Besides, what do you mean there is no damages? What about false arrest? False accusation? I think he ran and grabbed my brother as well, but I'm not sure. I'd have to check. If so, that would count as an assault. The embarassment from being yelled at and humiliated in front of customers and his friends? The racist comment that was made towards him? You don't think those will have any significance in court? I do. Safeway does. That's all there is to it.

This is not all about money so don't misunderstand the intentions here. The way we're looking at it is this. If my brother had stolen he would be made to pay for his consequences. Both in money and other ways. I'm sure nobody would have any qualms about that. But when a safeway manager does something like this to my brother, what, all of the sudden are we supposed to settle for "I'm sorry". Hell no. They have to pay for their consequences as well so it's made clear that this is not tolerated and should not be going on.

Like I said, it will have significance in court. We think so and safeway thinks so which is why they're doing a thorough investigation. My brother did nothing wrong and safeway is not even looking at it that way because they realize that as well (which is why im shocked some individuals here have indicated so). This might go even deeper than we expected if they find out that it's part of a larger scheme since it happened at other stores. But in any event, my brother will get the justice he deserves. As long as they're fair about it, that's all. But this time "I'm sorry" is not going to cut it.
 
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Mavurik

Junior Member
And geez, at the very least show some distaste for the racism here instead of acting like it should be tolerated. It's 2005, not the 50's. This stuff shouldn't be happening to anyone.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Mavurik said:
No crime YET. They're still investigating it.
WHAT crime?!? Against who? The manager? for what?

Unless he hopes for false imprisonment (and nothing you stated rises to that level), I don't see any criminal violation in what you wrote.


Only by a police. Not by store employees.
Store policies vary. And since what we are talking about is criminal law, store policy is irrelevant to the matter. The elements of theft can be met without leaving the store.


I know this from working in Loss Prevention. It's not theft until they leave the store.
An dthat is a good, safe policy for a store to operate under. But the law does not REQUIRE them to operate under this policy.


My brother was suspicious in no way unless you see being black and looking at food suspicious. Picking up an item and putting it back down is not a shoplift indicator and no jury would see it that way. So I'm sorry, you're just wrong. It's not theft until you leave the store. Only police can stop on suspicion like that.
You weren't there so you don't know WHAT the employee(s) saw. And yes, i CAN be seen as suspicious. And a private person CAN stop someone or ask them to stay - they can even use reasonable force to effect an arrest (though this is highly discouraged in a private person's arrest).

Read PC 836 et al and you will see the laws of arrest for private persons and the police are very similar.


Hah, wait until I get the civil rights groups involved in this. You'll see a civil "tort" alright. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell this manager was in the wrong.
Maybe. And he might have been. The question is going to be what can be proven, and whether any damages can be demonstrated.


"Manipulating the items on a shelf". Oh please. He looked at a ravioli and put it down. Then he went to the bathroom. Since when is that against the law?
It's not. But when you look at a series of otherwise innocuous acts taken together, they can demonstrate reasonable suspicion under the law - and even probable cause to support an arrest. It's all in the articulation and what the observer saw and perceived.


So in this case SAFEWAY is the one with no reason to have stopped him.
Maybe not. But, depending on what the manager saw, they may very well have had cause to detain him long enough to ask him the pointed questions.


My brother's FRIEND was the one who asked him "Why didn't you stop me?" and the manager was the one who responded "Becaues blacks and mexicans have been stealing my alcohol". So there are other factors present and it will be used to show unreasonable bias, not might.
But, the statement by itself does not show prejudicial bias. If it was a statement of fact or perception, it doesn't make it prejudicial. It might be one piece in the whole that shows it was racially motivated, but by itself it is not likely significant. And it would have to be shown that the manager's sole or primary motivation was based upon race. Race CAN play a part in the equation in many cases.


If this ever goes to court Safeway won't have a leg to stand on, contrary to what you think.
I never said they DID have a leg to stand on. But I don't think that the case is as strong as you say it is. Civil torts generally require some damage. The "humiliation" factor here may not be considered much in the way of damage. Safeway may decide to pay a couple thouand dollars in "go away" money, but this is not going to make anyone rich.

Have him consult that attorney and see what the attorney says.

And I am still interested to hear what crime you think was committed here. I can't see any reason for the police to look in to it at all ... unless there is sufficient cause to believe that your brother actually committed a theft.

- Carl
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Mavurik said:
And geez, at the very least show some distaste for the racism here instead of acting like it should be tolerated. It's 2005, not the 50's. This stuff shouldn't be happening to anyone.
I don't get excited about "isms" all that much. I get called a racist occasionally when I simply talk to people of certain ethnic makeups; add an arrest or citation to the mix and I get accused again. So I also know the term gets shouted a lot for no reason other than to obfuscate the truth.

An individual with racist ideas or attitudes is not the problem so much as acting upon them. If this manager does hold these attitudes, he should be disciplined or terminated. But it's hard for me to get all excited about the accusation. Accusations are easy.

- Carl
 
S

seniorjudge

Guest
Originally Posted by seniorjudge
It's not theft until they leave the store.You're 100% wrong there. Theft requires intent to steal and if you conceal something inside a store, that's the intent that is needed to complete the act.
Mavurik said:
Yes, but you forget he didn't conceal something. He was just a customer. He didn't do anything wrong. That's why I'm so shocked with the responses here that imply that my brother was the one who did something wrong and not the manager. How ridiculous.
Okay, let's get something straight. I was not talking about your brother and you were not either. YOU made an erroneous statement as to the criminal law and I corrected you.

Then you come back with this ridiculous accusation against me! You're losing credibility.
 

Mavurik

Junior Member
Ok, well at least people are taking the time to explain to me and I thank you for that instead of earlier when I was getting one word responses. All we want is fair justice. We're not looking to get rich off of this. But we're not going to accept an "I'm sorry". My brother deserves justice in this event, just like Safeway would deserve justice if my brother stole from them. There's nothing wrong with that.

I still think a lot of this would have significance in court. The focus isn't even on my brother. He did not display suspicious behavior and for them to try to even make it look like that would have them as a store lose credibility. Why? Because they don't have any of the factors of shoplifting on my brother. Not one. In reality, no jury will even consider that claim. Basically, the only thing safeway could do is argue about what they're going to do to compensate him.

He picked up an item and put it down, and that's even irrelevant because the rest of the time he didn't have anything. You can't arrest somebody for stealing if they have nothing. Is it stealing because he picked up a ravioli can and looked at it? Is that what you're trying to imply? That because my brother looked at some food in a grocery store that he was "stealing". Really, I'd like to hear your arguments against that.
 
Mavurik:

You've been told time and time again you have no case. You refuse to accept this advice, which is fine. Stop wasting everyone’s time arguing on an internet forum. Get in your car, cruise on down to the bank, and withdraw $10K for a retainer fee. Simple enough, huh? Good luck.
 

Mavurik

Junior Member
Advice? More like criticism and people ignoring the fact of what happened. Hah, $10,000. Yea right. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. There's lawyers that want to take this case for free. :p

i guess some people will always be ignorant
 
There's lawyers that want to take this case for free

Then there is no need for further discussion. See how easy that was? Best of luck.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Mavurik said:
Advice? More like criticism and people ignoring the fact of what happened. Hah, $10,000. Yea right. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. There's lawyers that want to take this case for free. :p

i guess some people will always be ignorant
And, of course, you don't know what happened either because you weren't there.

I suppose your brother will either make himself a little scratch, or will be forking it out. One of the two. But, more than likely what he makes would be an out of court settlement and not at a jury trial.

But, oh well - no skin off our noses.

- Carl
 
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