School Contributed to Negligence in Truancy Case?

[Humusluvr]

Now am I saying that I am not accountable for my children? Absolutely not. Am I saying there is a valid excuse for their absences? Again, no! But when faced with no other alternative and I ask for the school's assistance, something that is provided for by law, and they refuse....do they share some obligation in this? That is my question.

Sorry I didn't get in on this one earlier.

The attendance officer, if he were to come to your home, would have the duty to either get the children to school or to jail. The attendance officer couldn't just come to your house alone, and the school might not have the resources to send the attendance officer and multiple police officers to your home. Because, in the "duties with respect to enforcement of compulsory school attendance requirements: at the request of a parent, to escort a student from any location to a school campus to ensure the student's compliance with compulsory school attendance requirements;" the officer also has to look at his safety. Have your children every been violent? That could definitely affect this situation.

What you are going to run into in court is that you will say the attendance officer had a duty to bring your kids to school, and the school will say that the officer was not able to go to your house, so YOU had the duty. Which, ultimately, you do.

If you are having this much trouble, you should send the children to a camp for troubled students or "boot camp" of sorts. There are a lot of resources for turning around these kinds of kids. IMHO, it's not going to change until you take drastic measures.

 

[ajkroy]

I teach in a high school for at-risk teens (our free lunch % is over 80). Even before budget cutbacks, we didn't have a "Truant Officer" or any such position. Is it possible that they didn't send such a person because they have no one to send?

In addition, I would think that whomever they did send to the home would be exposing themselves to potential liability.

 

[BryanK519]

How and why has the situation reached this point? How old are your sons?

It's a LONG story. They are 12 and 13. They are, obviously too big for me to physically carry them out to the car. I can barely lift 160 lbs of dead weight, yet alone 160 lbs of weight that is fighting against me. I have done everything short of getting into a physical entanglement, aside from trying to drag my son to the car, for which I was threatened to be turned into Child Protective Services for doing, so they have to get into the car under their own volition. And every consequence I have thrown at them has not been anough to sway them. So I started pleading to the school for help. As much as I hated to call the police or truant officer to show them that this is serious, I did so to show them that this is the law...it's NOT optional...but my pleas to the school have been ignored, and they are now filing suit. I understand the school's obligation to file suit. I understand that it's the law. And to be honest with you, this isn't about the money. Fining me, means nothing to the kids. They know I will be fined. What I want is a solution to the problem and I honestly believe that having a person of authority (other than dad) show up at the door, and tell them, this is the law, you are coming to school with me, will shake them out of it. I have told the children that I am having an officer come out to take them to school, but unfortunately, when I call, I get denied, and the children see that I now have no teeth to back up my threats. That is why I would like to have the judge issue an order or directive, to the truant officer to make a visit to the home and show the kids the school means business. I'm not trying to avoid a penalty or shift the blame, I'm trying to solve the problem.

 

[BryanK519]

How does one define duty in this context?
So if an officer has a duty to pull a person out of a burning car, then he can choose to do what he wants legally?

Well, I think that is the question. I searched the definitions chapter in the Education code and that term is not defined. At best, I think the law is somewhat ambiguous.

 

[BryanK519]

Sorry I didn't get in on this one earlier.

The attendance officer, if he were to come to your home, would have the duty to either get the children to school or to jail. The attendance officer couldn't just come to your house alone, and the school might not have the resources to send the attendance officer and multiple police officers to your home. Because, in the "duties with respect to enforcement of compulsory school attendance requirements: at the request of a parent, to escort a student from any location to a school campus to ensure the student's compliance with compulsory school attendance requirements;" the officer also has to look at his safety. Have your children every been violent? That could definitely affect this situation.

What you are going to run into in court is that you will say the attendance officer had a duty to bring your kids to school, and the school will say that the officer was not able to go to your house, so YOU had the duty. Which, ultimately, you do.

If you are having this much trouble, you should send the children to a camp for troubled students or "boot camp" of sorts. There are a lot of resources for turning around these kinds of kids. IMHO, it's not going to change until you take drastic measures.

And ultimately, that may be what the judge orders, and if he does so, I will be fully supportive. And, I really thought calling the police and the truant officer was a drastic step.

In answer to the previous questions, no the chidlren are no violent, per say, they have struggled when I have attempted to physically coherce them into the car, but not in the way of hitting. I do understand the liability and resource issue. The law also provides for "home visits" by the attendance officer, which is a little les intrusive. I have also requested that and have been denied. The statute, clearly anticipates the need, in some cases, for the attendance officer to make a visit to the home, otherwise the language wouldn't be in there. Filing a suit, is only the last step in the statute for the attendance officer to fulfill. In this situation, the attendance officer did not utilize any of the other duties and powers to help...he skipped right to the last step, filing a case. What is the relevance of the other portions of the law if the attendance officer simply refuses to abide by them?

 

[BryanK519]

I teach in a high school for at-risk teens (our free lunch % is over 80). Even before budget cutbacks, we didn't have a "Truant Officer" or any such position. Is it possible that they didn't send such a person because they have no one to send?

In addition, I would think that whomever they did send to the home would be exposing themselves to potential liability.

They have a truant officer. His sole duty is truancy. The schools have their own campus police. All this guy does is file cases, which is only one duty out of many that are enumerated in the statute.

 

[BryanK519]

If you are having this much trouble, you should send the children to a camp for troubled students or "boot camp" of sorts. There are a lot of resources for turning around these kinds of kids. IMHO, it's not going to change until you take drastic measures.

They have been referred to something like this. What we have here in Round Rock is called a neighborhood Conference Committee. They have a case manager that they report to every week, and they have been scolded pretty strongly and threatened to to be referred to the judge to do community service. Another possibility, according to the case manager, that the judge may order them to serve some time in a juvenille detention center.

They have also been forced to go to Saturday school.

They are going to weekly counselling.

 

[stealth2]

It's a LONG story. They are 12 and 13. They are, obviously too big for me to physically carry them out to the car. I can barely lift 160 lbs of dead weight, yet alone 160 lbs of weight that is fighting against me. I have done everything short of getting into a physical entanglement, aside from trying to drag my son to the car, for which I was threatened to be turned into Child Protective Services for doing, so they have to get into the car under their own volition. And every consequence I have thrown at them has not been anough to sway them. So I started pleading to the school for help. As much as I hated to call the police or truant officer to show them that this is serious, I did so to show them that this is the law...it's NOT optional...but my pleas to the school have been ignored, and they are now filing suit. I understand the school's obligation to file suit. I understand that it's the law. And to be honest with you, this isn't about the money. Fining me, means nothing to the kids. They know I will be fined. What I want is a solution to the problem and I honestly believe that having a person of authority (other than dad) show up at the door, and tell them, this is the law, you are coming to school with me, will shake them out of it. I have told the children that I am having an officer come out to take them to school, but unfortunately, when I call, I get denied, and the children see that I now have no teeth to back up my threats. That is why I would like to have the judge issue an order or directive, to the truant officer to make a visit to the home and show the kids the school means business. I'm not trying to avoid a penalty or shift the blame, I'm trying to solve the problem.

This did NOT answer my question. How did your 12 & 13yo sons get to the point of openly defying you? This behavior did NOT happen overnight. Nor do I buy that they just decided to stop doing as they were told to do. What have you (both of you parents) been doing for the past 13 years when the kids defied you?

I can tell you that I have two teens (16 and 19) and it would never even occur to them to openly defy me as your sons do.

 

[BryanK519]

This did NOT answer my question. How did your 12 & 13yo sons get to the point of openly defying you? This behavior did NOT happen overnight. Nor do I buy that they just decided to stop doing as they were told to do. What have you (both of you parents) been doing for the past 13 years when the kids defied you?

I can tell you that I have two teens (16 and 19) and it would never even occur to them to openly defy me as your sons do.

I'm happy to hear that you don't face the same challenges that I do, Stealth. I wouldn't wish what I am going through on my worst enemy. It never occurred to me to challenge my parents either. While I am in complete agreement with you that this is an issue that has been in the stage of developing ever since early childhood, these are matters of a very personal nature that I don't wish to discuss in a public forum. It involves their mother and what I have been trying to convince psychiatrists and physicians of her somehwhat, unstable, mental state... but that's all I will say about that. If the entire history were brought out, yes, there can certainly be an argument made that this issue has arisen due to some very bad parental decisions (on behalf of at least one parent), but the point is, I have been desperately trying, for the past few years, to turn this around and begging for the school district's help in doing so. I am trying to find a solution.

 

[stealth2]

I'm happy to hear that you don't face the same challenges that I do, Stealth. I wouldn't wish what I am going through on my worst enemy. It never occurred to me to challenge my parents either. While I am in complete agreement with you that this is an issue that has been in the stage of developing ever since early childhood, these are matters of a very personal nature that I don't wish to discuss in a public forum. It involves their mother and what I have been trying to convince psychiatrists and physicians of her somehwhat, unstable, mental state... but that's all I will say about that. If the entire history were brought out, yes, there can certainly be an argument made that this issue has arisen due to some very bad parental decisions (on behalf of at least one parent), but the point is, I have been desperately trying, for the past few years, to turn this around and begging for the school district's help in doing so. I am trying to find a solution.

Then I don't see how you expect any real help. Sorry.

 

[BryanK519]

Then I don't see how you expect any real help. Sorry.

Alright, fine.

About 6 years ago, my wife and I divorced. We agreed to a settlement that gave us joint custody, but she was designated as their primary residence. However, she had started allowing the children (at that time they were in 1st and 2nd grade) to stay home anytime they claimed to be sick. I obvjected to this and said that unless they had a fever, they needed to go to school. Oddly, they seemed to have a "fever" (according to my ex-wife) about 2 days a week. their absences were beginning to be excessive. on one particular day, when the boys stayed home, I paid her a visit and checked the boys temperatur. No fever. So, I argued that they needed to be in school and told my ex that if she didn't take them to school, I would. She decided to call the police. When the police arrived, I explained to them that I was only there to take the children to school because they have excessive absences. They explained to me that it didn't matter. If she wanted me to leave I had to leave and she signed a warning of criminal trespass so that I could no longer visit the kids at her apartment. When I asked the police how I could ensure that she was complying with the compulsory attendance law, they said that wasn't their problem.

So over the next year or so, I called their school and explained the problem. They didn't show any concern. I knew at that time, if we didn't nail this down, right then (when they were still small enough to carry to school) that this would be a serious problem later on. So I called child Protective Services. I communicated with case workers, supervisors, and eventually the Chairman. All them told me the same thing. This was the school's problem, not theirs. but the school was ignoring me. So I wrote the governor's office explaining to him that I could not get one city or state agency to assist me with this problem. once again, I was told that this wasn't an issue they could help me with.

So I filed a custody case against her. I couldn't afford an attorney, so I filed pro bono. I spent hundreds of hours researching the law. I filed my own petition, I sent my own interogotories, and we were about ready to go to hearing when my ex stated that she wanted to reconcile. So, I was faced with either battling this out in court, without an attorney, even though because of my ex's economic status, she was afforded a free attorney, and risk an uncertain outcome, OR agree to the reconlilation and have more direct control over our children.

We reconciled about three years ago, but the damage was already done. The habits were embedded and my struggles to undo the damage were burdensome. At first, my ex-ex, now wife, resisted my every effort to place consequences on their refusal to go to school. She was the one who threatened to turn me into CPS because I dragged my kid halfway across the floor to force him into the car. I tried grounding them, she said that it was unfair because she felt they were really sick (even though they had no fever). I was in constant contact with the school, asking them to try to talk to my wife and explain to her that attendance is manadatory by law. but again....they all said it's my problem. and it is...it is my problem, but while I have direct control over my kids, I do not have any authority over my wife, who is a grown adult. It is only now, after it has become an insurmountable problem, that I have finally convinced my wife to implement harsh consequences for unexcused absences, but now it's a little too late. had I been able to enforce this when they were in 1st grade, we wouldn't be where we are today.

Looking back on it, maybe I should have gone through with the custody case, but it is quite intimidating to do a pro bono case against a lisenced attorney.

I have been pleading for help now for six years, and after being ignored by nearly everybody, they now want to impose a fine on me for negligence. I just want to problem solved. I just want what I have wanted since they began school...I want them to go to school every day, but it is now to the point where I need someone to let them know, Mom can't excuse you from school. Dad is right and when an officer shows up at the door to take you to school you will see that neither mom nor Dad can exempt you from mandatory compliance.

now...all of you go ahead and take shots at me as I'm sure you will

 

[Zigner]

Are your court orders regarding custody still in place (even if they are moot now?)

 

[BryanK519]

Are your court orders regarding custody still in place (even if they are moot now?)

What court orders? Our agreement, and yes it is now moot, said we had joint custody with her being the primary resident. We filed without an attorney, so sadly, there are not a whole lot of details. but as I understadn, our settlement and agreement and divorce decree is now circumvented by our revowed marriage.

 

[Zigner]

What court orders? Our agreement, and yes it is now moot, said we had joint custody with her being the primary resident. We filed without an attorney, so sadly, there are not a whole lot of details. but as I understadn, our settlement and agreement and divorce decree is now circumvented by our revowed marriage.

Have you actually remarried? It sounds like it...

In any case, the school actually has a copy of the court orders and those would still appear to be in effect. They may not actually have any requirement to respond to your request as you are not the custodial parent, per the court order. (I'm just throwing that possibility out there...)

 

[BryanK519]

Have you actually remarried? It sounds like it...

In any case, the school actually has a copy of the court orders and those would still appear to be in effect. They may not actually have any requirement to respond to your request as you are not the custodial parent, per the court order. (I'm just throwing that possibility out there...)

We are re-married and I am, once again, co-custodial parent, and have every right to make decisions on their behalf. And this is an entirely different school - they have never received a copy of the court order which was vacated over two years ago.