School field trip permission & release form - what does it mean?

[Ohiogal]

I'm new her so tell me...Is zinger and Silverplum the only ones who can give advice? You all keep saying my advice is nonsense but actually i'm pretty smart.

I know her child can hire a lawyer because my niece sued my sister over a car accident that they were in. She was 10 years old. Ex-hubby had my niece do it and the insurance company paid.

I know about those releases for field trips because I have a 6 year old and I sign them all the time. I asked my attorney husband what it meant years ago.

That is nice but it doesn't make you correct. So shush. Zigner and Silverplum are not the only ones who can give advice. Newbies who post incorrectly are NOT ALLOWED to continue giving incorrect advice.

As for your niece suing your sister -- there was nothing preventing that lawsuit from going forward. Maybe your attorney husband can post but you CANNOT. Got it? You may be smart but you are also ignorant.

 

[las365]

WILLIAA, are you related to Willyjo?

 

[mrcozza]

The only alternative that I can suggest is to take your daughter to the field trip destination yourself, stay with her throughout the trip, and drive her home afterwards. Depending on district policy, you may or may not be allowed to join the school group, but you can certainly follow them.

Yes, it's probably what I'll have to do. But I don't like the idea of having to do this every time they have a field trip, which is about twice per semester. My daughter is also not too thrilled with the idea of being the only kid with her parent at the outing!

 

[mrcozza]

but you make an error in presuming that whomever is "translating" the statute is doing so properly. A misinterpreted statute is worse than no statute verbiage provided.

You are absolutely right. So, if the lawyer who created the form might "translate" the law incorrectly, just imagine how incorrectly hundreds of parents would "translate" it! And each would be different too!

There are now laws that require residential leases to be written in plain English, as well as home mortgages, auto loans, consumer warranties, etc. So it is apparently possible to do this. I don't think I'm asking too much of the school's lawyers, am I?

 

[justalayman]

You are absolutely right. So, if the lawyer who created the form might "translate" the law incorrectly, just imagine how incorrectly hundreds of parents would "translate" it! And each would be different too!
?

but that is their option or they can have an attorney review it. If it is translated for them, they do not have this option. Some things cannot be translated into laymens terms and retain the same meaning.

also take note; there are some rights you cannot waive.

 

[FlyingRon]

FlyingRon, thanks for your comments. Inserting (sic) is an editorial mark indicating that the included grammatical or spelling error is in the original text, and is not an error in copying.

That would be [sic]. And yes I know what it means.

OK, you don't like my term "plain English". I hope you understand my point though. In order to understand this form, the parent must either be a lawyer who is already familiar with this part of the Pennsylvania law

No, I do not believe that. The operative word is "indemnify and hold harmless" which you can find in any dictionary (either the online kind or a paper one. Even your beloved wikipedia would have told you that). Essentially, it says you won't be involved in suits against the immune government entities.

If you were overly wrapped around the axle about the PA statute referenced you could have looked it up with a little googling like I did. However, it's by and large spurious because if you read the permission slip it says you're giving up any option that that statute gives you (which is pretty much nothing anyhow).

i'm not going to waste my time doing it again. But it says that local governments and their agencies are not liable. It's only once sentence long.

If your so paranoid about your rights and your precious snowflake, then yes either take our free advice or get your pennies together to consult a real lawyer but calling us names and throwing out insults to the volunteers here isn't going to get you anywhere.

 

[mrcozza]

That would be [sic]. And yes I know what it means.

No, I do not believe that. The operative word is "indemnify and hold harmless" which you can find in any dictionary (either the online kind or a paper one. Even your beloved wikipedia would have told you that). Essentially, it says you won't be involved in suits against the immune government entities.

If you were overly wrapped around the axle about the PA statute referenced you could have looked it up with a little googling like I did. However, it's by and large spurious because if you read the permission slip it says you're giving up any option that that statute gives you (which is pretty much nothing anyhow).

i'm not going to waste my time doing it again. But it says that local governments and their agencies are not liable. It's only once sentence long.

If your so paranoid about your rights and your precious snowflake, then yes either take our free advice or get your pennies together to consult a real lawyer but calling us names and throwing out insults to the volunteers here isn't going to get you anywhere.

Dear FlyingRon,

I do appreciate your taking the time to try and help me out. I'm not sure where your last remarks are coming from. I'm sorry if you've wasted your time, but it was your choice whether to respond to me or not. I don't like your snide remarks about my "precious snowflake", and getting my "pennies together to consult a real lawyer". And I don't think I called anyone names or threw out insults to anyone. I have been trying to be polite. Maybe you inadvertently attributed one of the other posts to me. There are some people on every forum who seem to enjoy insulting others, but I don't like it at all and I don't participate in it. Please show me which insults I made and I will happily apologize for them.

By the way, I'm just wondering, are you a lawyer? Or are you involved in the field of law in your work?

 

[mrcozza]

but that is their option or they can have an attorney review it. If it is translated for them, they do not have this option. Some things cannot be translated into laymens terms and retain the same meaning.

also take note; there are some rights you cannot waive.

I assume the "they" you are referring to are the parents. But I think it's unreasonable to expect all the parents to get an attorney to review a field trip permission form, don't you? The suggestions that I made to the school have two options: they could either rewrite the form in plain English, that all normal parents could understand, or they can leave the legal language in and attach an explanation in plain English. The second option would, I think, satisfy your concern about retaining the same meaning.

I'm really interested in your last statement. What are the "rights you cannot waive"?

 

[mrcozza]

Just to let you all know, before I posted the original question on this thread, I did a Google search on field trip permission forms. I looked at the first 10 or so forms that I found for public schools, and all of them were better written than our school's form. Almost half of them had waivers in them, but most were written in plain English. The one that was closest to ours was from a California school: It referenced the California statute by number, but then included the relevant excerpt from the statute on the form. The wording of the statute itself was quite clear and plain. I did a second search for only Pennsylvania schools. Again, looking at the first 5 or so, they were all very easy to understand and acceptable to me. If anyone is interested in seeing these other forms, I'll be glad to email them to you.

Anyway, my point is that it is possibe to do what I asked the school to do, and apparently that's how most schools are doing it already. Our school is resisting doing anything about it, and I don't understand why. It seems that they want to keep the parents in the dark.

 

[stealth2]

Or maybe they just don't like you.

Personally, I quite liked "precious snowflake". Much nicer than the "snotleigh" I would have used.

 

[mrcozza]

The school's lawyer finally replied with an explanation, basically saying that the statute referenced on the form is already in effect anyway, whether I sign the form or not, and my signing of the form only signifies my agreement that the school's responsibilities and liabilities are the same while on a field trip as when my child is in the school. This is the answer I was looking for.

It would have been easy to put this explanation on the original form, but unless they have a change of mind, I don't think they're going to do it. Anyway I agreed to the conditions and my daughter went on the field trip on Friday.

To all of you who genuinely provided your constructive opinions and help, I appreciate it greatly and say "thank you"! You were very helpful to me.

To those of you who only had criticisms and insults for me, I honestly don't know why you wasted your time replying, and I wish you to have a change of heart toward others in the future.

 

[Zigner]

The school's lawyer finally replied with an explanation, basically saying that the statute referenced on the form is already in effect anyway, whether I sign the form or not, and my signing of the form only signifies my agreement that the school's responsibilities and liabilities are the same while on a field trip as when my child is in the school. This is the answer I was looking for.

It would have been easy to put this explanation on the original form, but unless they have a change of mind, I don't think they're going to do it. Anyway I agreed to the conditions and my daughter went on the field trip on Friday.

To all of you who genuinely provided your constructive opinions and help, I appreciate it greatly and say "thank you"! You were very helpful to me.

To those of you who only had criticisms and insults for me, I honestly don't know why you wasted your time replying, and I wish you to have a change of heart toward others in the future.

Interestingly enough...FlyingTon told you this in post #4.