Schools and facebook stuff

[Zigner]

Did you read what I just posted? Or are you posting what you WANT the conversation to be about? C'mon, you're usually spot on. But on this post - go back and read it.

I know what the administration claims is the reason for the suspension. But I've dealt with enough school administrators to be able to see through this.

 

[Humusluvr]

Ahh, so conversation OUTSIDE of school is what he was suspended for? Really?

Dude, seriously. READ THE THREAD.

The school knows this conversation took place. They are investigating as to WHEN.

*sheesh*

Drink some coffee.

 

[Humusluvr]

I know what the administration claims is the reason for the suspension. But I've dealt with enough school administrators to be able to see through this.

You are projecting. You aren't listening to the facts that the OP put out here.

 

[Zigner]

Dude, seriously. READ THE THREAD.

The school knows this conversation took place. They are investigating as to WHEN.

*sheesh*

Drink some coffee.

Oh, so you are saying they are trying to see if the conversation took place during school? Well, if it took place during school, that means the participants in the conversation were the ones breaking the rules, right?

Seriously, no matter how you want to try to sugar-coat this, it comes down to the OP being suspended because the administrator was ticked off at being told "no." The OP did a stupid and disrespectful thing, but it was NOT something to be suspended for.

 

[Humusluvr]

Oh, so you are saying they are trying to see if the conversation took place during school? Well, if it took place during school, that means the participants in the conversation were the ones breaking the rules, right?

Seriously, no matter how you want to try to sugar-coat this, it comes down to the OP being suspended because the administrator was ticked off at being told "no." The OP did a stupid and disrespectful thing, but it was NOT something to be suspended for.

Do you know what it means to investigate?

Seriously, the OP should have been suspended.

The original question - can they force him to turn over his FB password? No. Can't force him. Can they suspend him? Absolutely. He did violate the school code of conduct.

 

[tranquility]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc$ View Post
I think I said an opinion. And didn't defame her. I said "Mrs teacher = ..." and then said some disrespectful stuff.

And yeah, they were basically like you disrupted school. But it's not like I said "hey everybody should say this about Mrs teacher tomorrow!". I didn't encourage anybody to do anything, it just happened by itself. The people who requoted it made that choice all by themselves. It's not like I was trying to be some kind of leader of a revolution here.
Note the OP's own words.

He was suspended for disrupting school.

And the people who CHOSE to take part in the conversation, on his FB wall, added conversation that may have been hostile, defamatory, or aggressive. And everyone saw it.

He started it. He took the fall for it. Even if he didn't intend for it to happen, if he wouldn't have written something so stupid, he wouldn't have gotten suspended. And if he would have provided his FB password, so the school admin could see WHO was at fault, and when it occurred, he took ownership of the post and it's contents.

Live and learn.

I posted the law.

Humuslvr posts the power of unchecked authority.

Even when I offer the branch of how to argue the facts to make it not in direct violation of Supreme Court precedent, he declines.

We haven't even started talking about if a reasonable person could believe the OP's comments (whatever they were) “materially and substantially disrupt the work and discipline of the school,” if it WAS in the "school context".

 

[Humusluvr]

Humuslvr posts the power of unchecked authority.

Humusluvr posted the reality of a school code of conduct. The rules are there so that all students can learn. You don't get to remove someone else's right to a free and appropriate education.

and get over yourself, tranquility. I'm not some ****. Neither is the school admin. They were perfectly within their rights to nip this disruption in the bed. As they should have.

We haven't even started talking about if a reasonable person could believe the OP's comments (whatever they were) “materially and substantially disrupt the work and discipline of the school,” if it WAS in the "school context".

Apparently, they did. OP suspended.

 

[Zigner]

Humusluvr posted the reality of a school code of conduct. The rules are there so that all students can learn. You don't get to remove someone else's right to a free and appropriate education.

and get over yourself, tranquility. I'm not some ****. Neither is the school admin. They were perfectly within their rights to nip this disruption in the bed. As they should have.



Apparently, they did. OP suspended.

And, I maintain that the school actually suspended the OP for saying "no" to an unreasonable request and are attempting to hide behind the generic "disruption."

The colloquial phrase would be "power trip."

 

[Humusluvr]

And, I maintain that the school actually suspended the OP for saying "no" to an unreasonable request and are attempting to hide behind the generic "disruption."

The colloquial phrase would be "power trip."

You're allowed to have that opinion.

I share the school admin's opinion that this student created a school disruption.

 

[Zigner]

You're allowed to have that opinion.

I share the school admin's opinion that this student created a school disruption.

I am glad that we both have the freedom to express our opinion

 

[tranquility]

Humusluvr posted the reality of a school code of conduct.

Ah yes, the code of conduct, do you have a link for this code you think disappears legal rights? Not that it matters. I will AGAIN post some magic words, the conduct must “materially and substantially disrupt the work and discipline of the school,” for the school to act to violate core constitutional rights.

The colloquial phrase would be "power trip."

I agree. By the by, would the OP's posts here give the school a right to suspend him? What if a student finds it and starts talking about it? What if that student has all the other students look? (Would zigner's comment be actionable by the school if he were a student? Would my concurrence?)

 

[tranquility]

To the OP. From the article posted by I'mTheFather, it appears the ACLU is interested in this issue. If you like, you might give the local chapter a call to see what they say. It is said bad facts make bad law. Here, it seems like there are good facts to illustrate the issue and they may like to hear from you.

Info edit:
See also:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3587/is_2_49/ai_n29399335/?tag=content;col1
http://w.chtlj.org/sites/default/files/media/articles/v023/v023.i4.Verga.pdf
http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/ucinlr76&div=33&id=&page=
http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1125&context=wmlr&sei-redir=1&referer=http://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?hl=en&q=http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1125%26context%3Dwmlr&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm0CCfl33widGkej_CKuLW6YJENd2Q&oi=scholarr#search="http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1125&context=wmlr"
http://www.nyclu.org/content/changes-citywide-standards-of-discipline-and-intervention

 

[Ohiogal]

and, you appear to have a problem with authority figures keeping the school running so that other students have equal access to their education.

Has NOTHING to do with bullying, and you know it.

Actually to an extent it does. The school should have to prove what the child did before disrupting his education. If he did this on his computer, his internet access AND his time, they shouldn't be able to punish him on school time for it. For the school to punish him based on the fact that he wouldn't give into their bullying when it was NOT a school account is ridiculous and beyond the scope of Kuhlmeier and Tinker.
Just being a teacher doesn't mean people can never say anything negative about you.
The child had no reason to provide them access with HIS account information. If it were a school account, that would be different.

 

[Ohiogal]

You seem to think this ONE STUDENT lives in his own sea of free speech. That might be true, outside of school.

But in school, school admin have a DUTY to educate ALL STUDENTS. And the only way they can do so, is to maintain the learning environment. Which the OP disturbed. What do you do when a student makes it so other students can't learn? Send them to ISS or suspend them.

Because one kid, having this conversation on FB about a school employee, obviously disrupted the learning environment so much that they needed to remove him. One kid doesn't get to run that school with his outbursts. Or those that he incites.

I'm sure that the members here can't even imagine what it's like trying to keep the peace in a school, trying to keep the environment friendly enough that students can enjoy their learning, but I can. And I see exactly why they removed this student.

I'm sure that if you look in the student handbook, or code of conduct, that there is a rule that students cannot disrupt learning for others. Which is exactly what this student did.

He was outside of school. If his friends brought the disruption to school then his FRIENDS should have been the one suspended. NOT him. The school is also a government entity. The Constitution applies. And all the cases that have restricted it in schools have dealt with issues in schools or school events. If schools can dictate what people say in their own homes, that is ridiculous and we are approaching Hitler-dom. He was all for schools limiting speech. Should we burn books that the school doesn't approve of now?

 

[tranquility]

Of course it is bullying. How can we tell? Compare and contrast with the following hypothetical.

Tony Testosterone, public high school student and captain of the football team, has just updated his facebook page to "in a relationship".

On his wall he writes, "not only am I now seeing someone, but he's FABULOUS!"
(With an "I'm comming out" cover being played by Rammenstein on the page.)

A friend sees it and tells two friends, and so on and so forth until there is a material and substantial disruption of the work and discipline of the school where everyone is talking about TT.

Is Tony getting suspended? Why not?