Selling a Bass Guitar, but might not be legal

[JETX]

It is common practice in this industry for distributors of alcohol to "lend" promotional merchandise to its customers. Neon signs, pool tables, lights, reach in refrigerators, and other branded merchandise is to be used by these customers but not sold for profit. That merchandise is supposed to be returned upon termination of their working relationship. Since many of these working relationships go on for many years, much of the merchandise is forgotten about. The ownership however still remains with the distributor. It would be illegal for anyone to sell something that would fall under this category.

However, this item (guitar) doesn't meet any of those circumstances. It was not 'loaned', it has nothing to do with retail establishments and was simply an item that was given to someone to help promote their product. There is NO evidence that it was a loan or cannot be sold or otherwise disposed of. Over the years, I have owned, sold and given away lots of 'promotional' crap.... including beer (Corona, Michelob, etc.) signs, coasters, mugs, golf balls, jackets, bottles of wine, etc.

The OP has complete OWNERSHIP of the item and can sell or give away as he feels fit.

 

[JustAPal00]

However, this item (guitar) doesn't meet any of those circumstances. It was not 'loaned', it has nothing to do with retail establishments and was simply an item that was given to someone to help promote their product. There is NO evidence that it was a loan or cannot be sold or otherwise disposed of. Over the years, I have owned, sold and given away lots of 'promotional' crap.... including beer (Corona, Michelob, etc.) signs, coasters, mugs, golf balls, jackets, bottles of wine, etc.

The OP has complete OWNERSHIP of the item and can sell or give away as he feels fit.

You're Assuming that! We all know the dangers when we ASSuME that our beliefs are facts. When the bass was provided to the original band member, we don't know what the circumstances or provisions were. As has been already advised, it would be in the OP's best interest to contact AB to see prior to trying to sell it. As a bar manager from my younger days, I too have had and still have tons of "promotional crap". Some of it I would have no problem selling but some of it I'm sure wasn't supposed to end up with.

 

[JETX]

You're Assuming that! We all know the dangers when we ASSuME that our beliefs are facts. When the bass was provided to the original band member, we don't know what the circumstances or provisions were. As has been already advised, it would be in the OP's best interest to contact AB to see prior to trying to sell it. As a bar manager from my younger days, I too have had and still have tons of "promotional crap". Some of it I would have no problem selling but some of it I'm sure wasn't supposed to end up with.

Okay, let's try this again.... I will type slow....
It doesn't matter what, if any, 'deal' the promoter might have had with the original recipient of the 'goods' (guitar). Based on the OP, that person (recipient) traded the guitar to the OP and any restrictions, if any, would NOT apply to the OP (unless the property was stolen).
If there were restrictions in the original 'deal', Anheuser Busch would have to pursue them against the person who violated them.

 

[JustAPal00]

Okay, let's try this again.... I will type slow....
It doesn't matter what, if any, 'deal' the promoter might have had with the original recipient of the 'goods' (guitar). Based on the OP, that person (recipient) traded the guitar to the OP and any restrictions, if any, would NOT apply to the OP (unless the property was stolen).
If there were restrictions in the original 'deal', Anheuser Busch would have to pursue them against the person who violated them.

Now you're making me type really slow, and use small words. If someone loans you something and you trade it for something else, that could be considered theft. Selling stolen goods is illegal no matter how many times the item has been traded!

 

[JETX]

If someone loans you something and you trade it for something else, that could be considered theft. Selling stolen goods is illegal no matter how many times the item has been traded!

Interesting spin..... I just love it when someone doesn't understand FACTS.... then makes things up to support their imagination.

Where in this thread is there anything to indicate that a theft occurred??
Where does it say that Anheuser Busch filed a criminal complaint.... with anyone?? Absent a criminal complaint by a 'victim' of the theft.... there are no 'stolen goods'... nor an 'illegal' act.

 

[Zigner]

Interesting spin..... I just love it when someone doesn't understand FACTS.... then makes things up to support their imagination.

Where in this thread is there anything to indicate that a theft occurred??
Where does it say that Anheuser Busch filed a criminal complaint.... with anyone?? Absent a criminal complaint by a 'victim' of the theft.... there are no 'stolen goods'... nor an 'illegal' act.

Jet - really...

Are you saying that if my neighbor goes on vacation for 2 weeks, and a guy burglarizes his house, there aren't any stolen goods until a report is filed?

 

[JustAPal00]

Interesting spin..... I just love it when someone doesn't understand FACTS.... then makes things up to support their imagination.

Where in this thread is there anything to indicate that a theft occurred??
Where does it say that Anheuser Busch filed a criminal complaint.... with anyone?? Absent a criminal complaint by a 'victim' of the theft.... there are no 'stolen goods'... nor an 'illegal' act.

The lack of "FACTS".... Is exactly why the OP should investigate. No one said the bass was stolen, or even that the OP can't sell it. Just that due to the nature of the item and the possible business relationship between the original user and AB, the Op should find out if possible. Then he can make an educated decision on what to do next! It may need to be returned to AB, in which case the OP would have to go after the person he traded with to get his bass back. Or he may be legally able to sell it for what ever amount he wants.

 

[JETX]

Are you saying that if my neighbor goes on vacation for 2 weeks, and a guy burglarizes his house, there aren't any stolen goods until a report is filed?

No. However to use YOUR scenario, there would not be any RECOVERY of the stolen property without a criminal report.
And if the thief were to sell that 'stolen' property, without a theft report, the police can't 'recover' the property from the buyer.
It would simply be a CIVIL matter.

 

[Zigner]

No. However to use YOUR scenario, there would not be any RECOVERY of the stolen property without a criminal report.
And if the thief were to sell that 'stolen' property, without a theft report, the police can't 'recover' the property from the buyer.
It would simply be a CIVIL matter.

But...that's not what you said.

 

[JustAPal00]

Jet, It is illegal to sell or trade something that is stolen, even if the owner doesn't know it has been stolen. Here's a similar scenario. I am sub-contracted by a large national insurance company. They provide me with a laptop and any supplies I need for it. I'm sure that when I first started with them several years ago, I signed my first computer out. I have had several since. In fact at one time I had two. My first one crashed so I called my boss and he just overnighted me another. He never even asked for the first one back. I did bring it into the office a couple months later and it's still sitting in the corner of his office. It has been cannibalized for parts by other inspectors trying fix things on theirs. Using your scenario however, had I traded that laptop to someone after receiving my new one, even though it has the name of the insurance company plastered all over it, they would be free to sell that to anyone they wanted? I'm sorry but I have to disagree. What I did would be considered theft, and they would be selling stolen goods. Now I don't know what kind of agreement a musician sponsored by a beer manufacturer signs when he accepts their sponsorship, but I'm willing to bet neither do you! So it would be in the best interest of the OP to find out prior to trying to sell the bass!

 

[Mass_Shyster]

What I did would be considered theft, and they would be selling stolen goods.

That's not theft, it's conversion.

From Black's Law Dictionary:

theft, n. 1. The felonious taking and removing of another's personal property with the intent of depriving the true owner of it

Conversion is a civil offense, not a criminal offense. The police will not help the rightful owner retrieve your laptop, because there is no criminal offense involved.

I'm not aware of any criminal penalties for receiving converted goods.

At best, the true owner can file a civil case for replevin or trover.

 

[JustAPal00]

That's not theft, it's conversion.

From Black's Law Dictionary:



Conversion is a civil offense, not a criminal offense. The police will not help the rightful owner retrieve your laptop, because there is no criminal offense involved.

I'm not aware of any criminal penalties for receiving converted goods.

At best, the true owner can file a civil case for replevin or trover.

If the OP were to sit on the bass and never offer to sell it, then a case for trover against the original band member would be the best AB could do. But if it were offered for sale then a repelvin case would be in order. If that were the case, the OP would be SOL and have to go after the person he traded with for his bass back. Anyway, we're splitting hares here with whether it's called A or B. The fact is there is no reason for the OP to not investigate who the legal owner is so that he can offer it for sale, and not doing so may cost him!

 

[Mass_Shyster]

The fact is there is no reason for the OP to not investigate who the legal owner is so that he can offer it for sale, and not doing so may cost him!

AB has over 30,000 employees. It should prove interesting finding one who knows the status of the title of the guitar.

I'm also not sure AB would have a cause of action against him. AB could go after the original possessor (the bailee?) or the person who ends up with it.

AB "loans" to X who sells to Y who sells to Z. AB can sue X for the value or Z for return. In that case, Z could sue Y for the value, leaving Y in no worse position than if he kept the item, and was sued for its return by AB. Either way, Y could sue X for the value.

I don't think that some blow-hard claiming on the internet that Y can be fined $10,000 for selling the item really constitutes notice that the item belongs to AB.

The Original Poster should probably make a good faith effort to determine if AB owns the item, but I really don't see him finding anyone who can conclusively answer the question.

If someone at AB claims that AB owns it, he should request some type of written claim of ownership from them before he returns it. Short of that, I think he's safe selling it.

 

[JustAPal00]

AB has over 30,000 employees. It should prove interesting finding one who knows the status of the title of the guitar.

I'm also not sure AB would have a cause of action against him. AB could go after the original possessor (the bailee?) or the person who ends up with it.

AB "loans" to X who sells to Y who sells to Z. AB can sue X for the value or Z for return. In that case, Z could sue Y for the value, leaving Y in no worse position than if he kept the item, and was sued for its return by AB. Either way, Y could sue X for the value.

I don't think that some blow-hard claiming on the internet that Y can be fined $10,000 for selling the item really constitutes notice that the item belongs to AB.

The Original Poster should probably make a good faith effort to determine if AB owns the item, but I really don't see him finding anyone who can conclusively answer the question.

If someone at AB claims that AB owns it, he should request some type of written claim of ownership from them before he returns it. Short of that, I think he's safe selling it.

I agree, I don't think the blow hard on the webs threats, or any legal charges are anything for the OP to worry about. As I have said all along if the bass is property of AB, they will have a claim to get their bass back and the OP will be left trying to recover from the person he traded with. I don't care how many hands my stolen/converted property goes through, it's still my property!

 

[JETX]

Jet, It is illegal to sell or trade something that is stolen, even if the owner doesn't know it has been stolen.

A buyer of property that ends up being REPORTED stolen, is has NOT committed an illegal act if he was not aware that the property purchased was stolen.
If what you THINK is true was, then every pawn shop owner who ended up BUYING (or taking as pawn) what ended up being stolen property would be arrested.
I can tell you (from when I was a LEO working pawn shops) that simply does not happen. We would 'recover' the stolen property and the pawn shop was out their 'purchase price'. No crime, no charge.

All of that of course is on the ASSUMPTION that a crime occurred (which so far is only in your imaginary world).