Serve supplemental proceedings Subpoena out of state? Uniform Interstate Depositions and Discovery Act (“UIDDA”)

[quincy]

If the fellow has left UT, then I am out of options other then an out of state writ of execution ?

Probably easier to find his assets then him.

The suggestions offered you in your other thread are still applicable.

If you have a judgment and know of assets in Utah, you can attach those assets.

To repeat a question that was left unanswered in your previous thread and which Doodah has again asked here: What is the value of the judgment? If it is sizeable, hiring outside help (a private detective, a professional debt collection agency) would seem to make sense.

 

[TheQuestion]

If your debtor no longer lives in Utah, the best thing to do would be to hire a private investigator to determine where he now resides and then to domesticate the judgment there. Hiring an attorney in that state would be the best way to go.

How much is the judgment?

Those debt collecting companies seem to be able to find people really fast and without much effort. There must be a system beyond the basic google search that I'm doing.

Do you know of the database or website that private investigators use to track people?

The judgement is for over 50K.

Thanks.

 

[quincy]

Those debt collecting companies seem to be able to find people really fast and without much effort. There must be a system beyond the basic google search that I'm doing.

Do you know of the database or website that private investigators use to track people?

The judgement is for over 50K.

Thanks.

Private investigators scour local, county, state, and federal records, many of which are accessible online (some for free, some not). Licensed PI’s can also have access to law enforcement databases. They will also do searches of social media sites.

You can do a lot of the searching yourself but it is far easier and faster to let a professional handle it.

With a judgment of $50,000 waiting to be collected, spending a couple of thousand on a detective might be a good investment.

 

[Taxing Matters]

With a judgment of $50,000 waiting to be collected, spending a couple of thousand on a detective might be a good investment.

It might be. But in this case I must say I'm a bit skeptical. According to the the OP, the judgment debtor is:

This person jumping from state to state using P.O. boxes and UPS store as fake address for various scam business. Very difficult to get ahold of them however I do know a place and time they are going to be and would like to get them served. I can't find proof they live anywhere but acting as a traveling gypsy selling magic elixirs and potions, etc.
No one seem to know where they live now, for all I know they are living in their car and using some franchise chain of gyms for a shower and to clean up.

A guy living a transient life as a grifter selling "magic elixirs and potions" usually is someone without much in the way of assets and might well be living out of his car in a hand to mouth existence. If he has any non exempt assets, finding and attaching them is likely to be a wild chase in which the cost may end up exceeding the assets gained. I'm not saying he shouldn't try, but in his shoes I'd not jump in spending a lot of money and effort here with this kind of information on the judgment debtor. I certainly wouldn't expect a guy running scam businesses to be honest about his assets in a Zoom debtor's exam.

 

[quincy]

It might be. But in this case I must say I'm a bit skeptical. According to the the OP, the judgment debtor is:



A guy living a transient life as a grifter selling "magic elixirs and potions" usually is someone without much in the way of assets and might well be living out of his car in a hand to mouth existence. If he has any non exempt assets, finding and attaching them is likely to be a wild chase in which the cost may end up exceeding the assets gained. I'm not saying he shouldn't try, but in his shoes I'd not jump in spending a lot of money and effort here with this kind of information on the judgment debtor. I certainly wouldn't expect a guy running scam businesses to be honest about his assets in a Zoom debtor's exam.

A private investigator can help locate assets, if there are any.

Another option for TheQuestion is to simply hold onto the judgment until the judgment-debtor returns to Utah (the judgment is good for many years) and/or the judgment-debtor gets an easily-detectable job or acquires easily-detectable assets that can be located without assistance from a professional.

Or he could sell the judgment to a debt collection agency. He won’t get $50,000 but at least he will walk away with something (assuming a collection agency wants to purchase the debt).

 

[TheQuestion]

It might be. But in this case I must say I'm a bit skeptical. According to the the OP, the judgment debtor is:



A guy living a transient life as a grifter selling "magic elixirs and potions" usually is someone without much in the way of assets and might well be living out of his car in a hand to mouth existence. If he has any non exempt assets, finding and attaching them is likely to be a wild chase in which the cost may end up exceeding the assets gained. I'm not saying he shouldn't try, but in his shoes I'd not jump in spending a lot of money and effort here with this kind of information on the judgment debtor. I certainly wouldn't expect a guy running scam businesses to be honest about his assets in a Zoom debtor's exam.

I don't think he is homeless or pennyless however he might be more like in the movie " Catch me if you can". He goes state to state recruiting people for his little enterprise. He eats at restaurants, take an airplane there, stays at hotels, etc.
However he hides his home address from all websites I have seen. He might rent a office for a month and use that as his office address for everything or a P.O. box, etc.. I guess many companies do not check to see if the location is an commercial or residential. He is darting all over the country in multiple states. He does sell things claiming to have magic or miracle properties. He portrays himself as some kind of genius above that of modern science or law. Its all BS but some people fall for it all.

I don't want to spent thousands on some private investigator for something I should be able to do myself. A P.I. might be limited by state in the same way that many lawyers and doctors are. They can do things in 1 state but not the other 49.

Are the credit reporting agencies open to discovery/subpoena? They seem to be a nexus on information on people. Such as Experian, Equifax, etc..

They might have more information then most about such an individual.

 

[quincy]

I don't think he is homeless or pennyless however he might be more like in the movie " Catch me if you can". He goes state to state recruiting people for his little enterprise. He eats at restaurant, take an airplane there, stays at hotels, etc.
However he hides his home address from all websites I have seen. He might rent a office for a month and use that as his home address for everything or a P.O. box, etc.. He is darting all over the country in multiple states. He does sell things claiming to have magic or miracle properties. He portrays himself as some kind of genius above that of modern science or law. Its all BS but some people fall for it all.

I don't want to spent thousands on some private investigator for something I should be able to do myself. A P.I. might be limited by state in the same way that many lawyers and doctors are. They can do things in 1 state but not the other 49.

Are the credit reporting agencies open to discovery/subpoena? They seem to be a nexus on information on people.

Do you know if the credit reporting agencies are subject to subpoena and/or discovery ? Such as Experian, Equifax, etc..

You will not get what you need from a credit reporting agency.

I suspect you will be spending more time, energy and dollars trying to track the guy down yourself than you would if you let a licensed professional handle the matter for you.

You could start your own search by checking your local, county and state property records.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Are the credit reporting agencies open to discovery/subpoena? They seem to be a nexus on information on people. Such as Experian, Equifax, etc..

You should be able to sign up for a credit reporting agency and pull the credit reports without the need for a subpoena (though it is possible to do a subpoena too). After all, you are a creditor seeking to collect a debt. There is a fee for it, but that would be the most straightforward way to get it.

You will not get what you need from a credit reporting agency.

It is possible to get useful leads on assets/income of a debtor from a credit report. When I was a revenue officer for the IRS we had access to credit reports when collecting delinquent taxes and I often used credit reports to get clues as to where assets of taxpayers may be located. They can provide a wealth of information. In some cases those reports were extremely valuable. It is not always the information in the report itself that is useful, but rather the value is providing a lead as to where you can find the information on some asset or income.

 

[quincy]

I disagree.

https://privacyrights.org/consumer-guides/credit-reporting-basics-how-private-my-credit-report

 

[TheQuestion]

You will not get what you need from a credit reporting agency.

I suspect you will be spending more time, energy and dollars trying to track the guy down yourself than you would if you let a licensed professional handle the matter for you.

You could start your own search by checking your local, county and state property records.

This guy has traveled to many states during the last year. Are P.I. able to work across state lines or would it require a separate one for each possible state?

Those credit reporting agencies don't advertise it but they sell your information to banks, car dealers, utility companies, etc..

There was a company I worked at once that I could look up anyone I wanted. There was some disclaimer saying it had to meet a bunch of criteria but everyone just ignored it.

You should be able to sign up for a credit reporting agency and pull the credit reports without the need for a subpoena (though it is possible to do a subpoena too). After all, you are a creditor seeking to collect a debt. There is a fee for it, but that would be the most straightforward way to get it.



It is possible to get useful leads on assets/income of a debtor from a credit report. When I was a revenue officer for the IRS we had access to credit reports when collecting delinquent taxes and I often used credit reports to get clues as to where assets of taxpayers may be located. They can provide a wealth of information. In some cases those reports were extremely valuable. It is not always the information in the report itself that is useful, but rather the value is providing a lead as to where you can find the information on some asset or income.

1. I don't know about that. I called Experian and explain that I have a judgement against someone and asked if I could pay for a report or if I should do a subpoena with their legal department. The Indian call center rep screamed something like " You will never get what you want" and hung up on me. Its odd because selling that information is literally how they make money.

2 .The credit reporting agencies are not protected in the same way as something like Google mail in which the can ignore a subpoena unless some extreme circumstance. After 911, the company I worked for had a system integrated into our system which could look into detail information on each customer to comply with the " know your customer" patriot act without having to demand ID from each customer.

It may be a case of the Indian call center not understanding the question but I was shocked to get such a response from one of the big 3 credit reporting agencies .

That is my best idea for information on his location .

 

[TheQuestion]

I disagree.

https://privacyrights.org/consumer-guides/credit-reporting-basics-how-private-my-credit-report

1. I tried to sign up for Comcast cable and they denied me because one of the big credit reporting agencies had my name misspelled by 1 letter. Case and point, comcast had access to their database .
2. My old company that I work for had assess to their system and employees could look up customers to comply with the patriot act after the 911 attacks.
3. Car dealers have access to this information when extending credit to buyers .

I have a Judgement signed by a judge which makes me an official creditor. Why would this information be denied to my collection efforts?

"
3. Accessing the Credit Report: Who Can See What?
How Can I Get a Copy?

Who has access to my report?

Anyone with a legitimate business need can gain access to your credit history, including:

• Those considering granting you credit.
• Landlords.
• Insurance companies.
• Employers and potential employers (but only with your consent).
• Companies with which you have a credit account for account monitoring purposes.
• Those considering your application for a government license or benefit if the agency is required to consider your financial status.
• A state or local child support enforcement agency.
• Any government agency (limited usually to your name, address, former addresses, current and former employers).

"

 

[quincy]

1. I tried to sign up for Comcast cable and they denied me because one of the big credit reporting agencies had my name misspelled by 1 letter. Case and point, comcast had access to their database .
2. My old company that I work for had assess to their system and employees could look up customers to comply with the patriot act after the 911 attacks.
3. Car dealers have access to this information when extending credit to buyers .

I have a Judgement signed by a judge which makes me an official creditor. Why would this information be denied to my collection efforts?

You gave permission for Comcast to access your credit report. Permission to access a person’s credit report is needed but for the people and the reasons outlined in the link I provided.

Did your judgment arise from a credit transaction?

Here is a link to the Utah law exceptions to disclosures: https://casetext.com/statute/utah-code/title-13-commerce-and-trade/chapter-45-consumer-credit-protection-act/section-13-45-203-exceptions

 

[Taxing Matters]

I disagree.

Disagree with what, exactly? How much experience, if any, do you have with using credit reports to collect debts? I have a fair bit of that experience. From that experience I can attest to just how useful they can be for collecting debts. Indeed, that is the reason debt collectors find those reports worth paying for.

https://privacyrights.org/consumer-guides/credit-reporting-basics-how-private-my-credit-report

There is certainly a lot of good information in there. But given how much information is there, it gives me no clue as to what your disagreement is. That said, looking it over there is nothing in there that is inconsistent with what I've said. The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) does allow a credit reporting agency (CRA) to provide access to consumer reports to, among others, those that that intend to use the report for "collection of an account of" the consumer. 15 U.S.C. § 1681b(a)(3)(A). So while that link you provided didn't expressly mention that, the law itself certainly does. The page you linked also did not mention that consumer reports may be disclosed due to a court order, but the FCRA expressly mentions that too in 15 U.S.C. § 1681b(a)(1). So that backs up all the facts I provided about access to consumer reports.

Now, while the law allows the CRA to provide that disclosure, it does not mandate it. So the CRA could refuse to provide it and not violate the law. Nevertheless, that is something that those services provide. I think that the off shore customer service rep the OP talked with isn't used to fielding calls from creditors seeking access to consumer reports for debt collection purposes. The OP needs to find the right avenue to sign up as a member to the credit bureau to get access to their system for that.

 

[quincy]

I believe that TheQuestion is best off hiring a professional. But it is ultimately up to him to decide how best to handle the collection on his judgment.

 

[Taxing Matters]

I believe that TheQuestion is best off hiring a professional. But it is ultimately up to him to decide how best to handle the collection on his judgment.

Agreed, with the caveat that hiring a professional has a cost, and a big part of the decision therefore is a cost/benefit analysis so it makes sense to explore less expensive self help options first before going that route.