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Shopping Mall : Assaulted And Detained

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CdwJava

Senior Member
Florid-aise said:
Not remotely entertaining I agree. But the substance of a Supreme Court decision that states that a person being unlawfully arrested can resist such an unlawful arrest even to the point of killing the arresting officer.

Mind numbing.

That kind of entertaining.
But the applicability may be pretty narrow. There are subsequent decisions at least in CA that deny a suspect - even one being unlawfully arrested - to resist that arrest. In fact, it is codified as per PC 834a, I believe.

However, if an arrest is being made using excessive force, the arrest may be resisted ONLY with sufficient force to counter the excessive force.

It's an odd set of circumstances, but there you are.

- Carl
 


CdwJava said:
But the applicability may be pretty narrow. There are subsequent decisions at least in CA that deny a suspect - even one being unlawfully arrested - to resist that arrest. In fact, it is codified as per PC 834a, I believe.

However, if an arrest is being made using excessive force, the arrest may be resisted ONLY with sufficient force to counter the excessive force.

It's an odd set of circumstances, but there you are.

- Carl
You caught on pretty quick, Carl. But then again, you usually do.

It is an irony to be certain. Each state scurried and scrambled after Bad Elk to codify statutorily the state's views on this. (Florida statutes specifically dictate resist of unlawful arrest is unlawful - figure that one out).

U.S. Supreme Court decisions control state courts and state laws. Yet there is no state usage of Bad Elk. The reason being is the obvious. No attorney would be worth a hill of beans if he got his client off using the available controlling SC ruling.

Bad Elk did meticulously state that each instance must be fact specific.

An officer killed could be seen as murder; manslaughter; or an unchargeable event.

On the excessive force standard - it is agreed - that only recriprocal force sufficient to repel the excessive force - only kind - on - kind, can be used. Just enough resisting force to repel the excessive force. This is one of the areas that the SC has been accused of viewing the constitution in favor of the police state rather than "the people".

This, along with the Fourth Amendment is one of THE most complicated areas of law.

I am decidedly a LE supporter.

I love my constitution.

The SC has ruled on this issue.

The SC controls.

What do you do? :confused:
 

Jrex05

Junior Member
Shopping Mall : Assaulted And Detained now Trespassed

Went down and talked to the D.A. today. BelizeBreeze, you were right. The security guard is planning on filing civil battery charges against me.

After speaking to an attorney friend of mine, he said my case on defending myself against unreasonable force "isn't going to be strong". I still plan on pleading not guilty however.

I recieved a letter today stating I have been trespassed from the mall indefinately. I feel they are overreacting and possibly discriminating against me as I did not cause a scene prior to being assaulted, I was not shoplifting, and have no prior record. I frequently shop there and don't want to be trespassed. I'm going to go down to the office in the mall and talk to the management tomorrow. I am also recieving calls from the mall, reporters, and others wanting statements. This is going to be one long week. Where do I go from here?
 
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You Are Guilty

Senior Member
Holy moly. I hope you don't have any significant assets.


PS: I like your attitude though:
...I have been trespassed from the mall indefinately... I'm going to go down to the office in the mall and talk to the management tomorrow.
GREAT IDEA! :D
 

Jrex05

Junior Member
Didnt know it was a big deal

I (against "advice") returned to the mall this morning where I formerly had my incident. I didn't know it was a big deal. I walked in the doors and strolled right to the office. I walked through the open glass door and stood in front of a secretary who looked up at me. I greeted her and asked her kindly if I could speak to (name removed, well call him) "Ken", the man in charge. She said replied, "Sure, it will be just a minute. Can I have your name?" When I told her she must have realized who I was, and nervously said she will go and get him. At this time she left the room through a door in front of me, in the direction of the inner office. I removed my scarf and coat, sat down facing the desk, folded my legs and waited for Ken.

After about 2 minutes, the door opened behind me. I stood up holding my scarf and jacket expecting to see Ken coming so I could apologize for the whole matter, clear things up, and let him know I'm not a trouble maker and try to "bury the hatchet" so to speak. Instead, I am met by 4 angry looking mall security officers coming in with mace and clubs in hand. I stood up and told them I was only here to see Ken, and didn't want any trouble. They meant business. The first officer in said "Come with me. Now."

At this point I began to have a panic attack again, as I am still suffering mental anguish and trauma since the last time I was attacked by mall security. With arms full of my garments, I started backing towards the door the secretary exited from. I tell them again that I don't want any trouble, I'm leaving as soon as I talk to Ken. The officer in front pointed at me with his right hand told me to "Stop where you are and lay down" while he reached for something on his belt with his left.

This is where I made my mistake. I now panicked at this point and turned around and lunged for the door. Just as I am swinging it open an officer dive tackles me and I am held down. My scarf gets caught on the door frame and rips. I hear one of the four officers saying on his radio that we "got him". I am pulled up by my arms which are bent behind my back while saying "I don't want any problems let me talk to Ken". I am led towards the mall door with the three officers following, and one holding both my arms behind me. One of them remarks "What a dumba--" The security officer holding me lets go of my right arm to open the door.

I jerk my arm around and jump to try to break free and open the door. He scrambles and then gets me in a headlock, during the scuffle we fall into the wall and smash a hole in the plaster, he then knocks me to the ground as another officer pulls out his can of pressurized mace and sprays me in the face. It must have been a different brand because this time it burned a lot more. The other two officers open the door in front of me with clubs in hand. As I am being led out in flexicuffs, being humiliated once again, I squint enough to see that three blurry police officers have just walked into the door of the mall and are walking towards me down the hall in between the crowds of people who have formed. The secuirty officers hand me over to the police.

As requested by my attorney, I won't post any details past this point except that I cooperated with the police without further incident. At my upcoming trial, I am going to file greivances about losing my coat (which was never returned- I think a guard took it) and having my scarf ripped, being assaulted again, and improper procedure. This week just gets worse and worse.
 
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stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Jrex05 said:
I recieved a letter today stating I have been trespassed from the mall indefinately.
Which part of this wasn't clear to you? They do NOT want you setting foot in the mall. So what do you do? Go back to the mall. Not overly bright, now was it? I'd bet that the judge is now going to throw the book at you. Open an E-Bay account - abotu the only place you'll be shopping for a long while is online.
 

Happy Trails

Senior Member
Oi yoi yoi!!!!!

Even after reading the link I provided about the guy who was choked to death, you go there and tresspass, try to run away, (while wearing a scarf too). :eek:

Instead of filing a grievance about your ripped scarf and missing coat, maybe you should just go down there and get it. :rolleyes:

(The previous statement was sarcasm, it is not to be misunderstood that you should actually go back there and ask for your items back no matter how nice you do it.)
 
Happy Trails said:
Oi yoi yoi!!!!!

Even after reading the link I provided about the guy who was choked to death, you go there and tresspass, try to run away, (while wearing a scarf too). :eek:

Instead of filing a grievance about your ripped scarf and missing coat, maybe you should just go down there and get it. :rolleyes:

(The previous statement was sarcasm, it is not to be misunderstood that you should actually go back there and ask for your items back no matter how nice you do it.)
Happy T, I was gonna say something along these line when I read your post. Those critical words in ( ) were far to brutal to me. It is a natural fact that IALMAO. :D
 
Jrex05 said:
As requested by my attorney, I won't post any details past this point except that I cooperated with the police without further incident. At my upcoming trial, I am going to file greivances about losing my coat (which was never returned- I think a guard took it) and having my scarf ripped, being assaulted again, and improper procedure. This week just gets worse and worse.
I am astounded that you would accept and follow direction of your attorney to not post here any further details, yet you would not follow this same attorney's advice to not go back to the mall trespassing you.

Jrex05 said:
This is where I made my mistake.
No, this is not where you made your mistake.

You made your mistake when you did not follow the advice given you not to go to the mall that had trespassed you.

Where you may or may not have had a case in the first scuffle. You have unwittingly muddied the waters so much that you may see more than a reporters microphone thrust in front of your face.
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
C'mon. For a bunch of so-called "legal experts," you're all quite easily fooled.

Show of hands who thinks this is a "real" post. Come on now, don't be shy! :D
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
You Are Guilty said:
C'mon. For a bunch of so-called "legal experts," you're all quite easily fooled.

Show of hands who thinks this is a "real" post. Come on now, don't be shy! :D
He's as real as the guy from the "Best Buy" thread and Msdad in the thread about changing a 9 year old's name in the Child Custody topic.

:D
 

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
You Are Guilty said:
C'mon. For a bunch of so-called "legal experts," you're all quite easily fooled.

Show of hands who thinks this is a "real" post. Come on now, don't be shy! :D
I guess we will know when he updates us on what happened when he went back to get his coat. :rolleyes:
 

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