summons letter undelivered - what then?

[vgmhilliard]

What is the name of your state? CA and MD

This is probably just a technical question but I'd love to know what law says in these circumstances.

Assume your creditor wants to get a judgement against u, and u r being served a summons letter, which I wud suppose is sent by Certified Mail with signature required to prove delivery.

What happens if that letter returns to the sender (creditor or court) undelivered? say delivery was attempted but someone else opened the door and refused to sign for it? Then letter ended up sitting at the local Post Office waiting for collection but noone turned up to collect it.

What LEGALLY happens then?

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

What is the name of your state? CA and MD

This is probably just a technical question but I'd love to know what law says in these circumstances.

Assume your creditor wants to get a judgement against u, and u r being served a summons letter, which I wud suppose is sent by Certified Mail with signature required to prove delivery.

What happens if that letter returns to the sender (creditor or court) undelivered? say delivery was attempted but someone else opened the door and refused to sign for it? Then letter ended up sitting at the local Post Office waiting for collection but noone turned up to collect it.

What LEGALLY happens then?

My response:

Service is deemed effective 10 days after the mailing . . . even if the defendant has not yet signed or mailed back the return receipt. [Ca Civ Pro § 415.40] But mail refused, or returned to the sender "unclaimed," without a signed receipt, is not sufficient to establish service under Ca Civ Pro § 415.40. [Stamps v. Sup.Ct. (Wellington) (1971) 14 Cal.App.3d 108, 110, 92 Cal.Rptr. 151, 152]

Service must then be effected by other authorized means; e.g., personal service.

IAAL

 

[vgmhilliard]

ok, thx - but what next?

.....

Service must then be effected by other authorized means; e.g., personal service.

IAAL

ok many thx for your detaiked explanation.

but what happens next? say personal service is attempted (I am assuming personal service means a courier) but the debtor is in hospital, abroad, in jail etc..... and noone signs for it. What LEGALLY happens then?

many thx in advance!!!

 

[ylen13]

ok many thx for your detaiked explanation.

but what happens next? say personal service is attempted (I am assuming personal service means a courier) but the debtor is in hospital, abroad, in jail etc..... and noone signs for it. What LEGALLY happens then?

many thx in advance!!!

they have to find him and serve him. In ca he do not need to take physically posetion of the package all has to do be done is actually see him and attempt to give him the package, if he resuses to take then it can be droped in front of him and considerd served. So basically till you find him its not served.

 

[vgmhilliard]

reason for asking

I apologise I am dwelling so much on this issue which most of us must be viewing as a technicality. However, let me explain why it matters so much in my case.

I am a US citizen residing in the UK. My debts are from the US and the debt collectors are obviously American. I wud've filed for bankruptcy long ago, however by US law, I'd have to fly back to the US and wait for 91 days before I cud do so. Definitely out of question in my situation.

Hence, this whole issue of delivering a summons letter becomes of utmost importance to me. My British solicitor is telling me that in the UK if the letter returns to the sender unclaimed, u r deemed NOT SERVED, HOWEVER if this carries on long enough, the sender may go to the Police directly and accuse the debtor of fraud by way of avoiding communication, and YES the Police may go after the debtor to arrest him and bring him handcuffed (so to speak) for communication. It is a VERY SLIPPERY road for the sender to go, as the sender HAS GOT to prove the debtor is INTENTIONALLY avoiding communication with the sender. Therefore things rarely evolve along that alley in the UK.

MY QUESTION IS - are there any clauses to that extent in the US? and if so, how easily can the sender accuse the debtor of deliberate avoiding of communication (i.e. fraud essentially) if the sender's letters and couriers keep on coming back empty-handed?

 

[Ladynred]

You need to stop asking a BRITISH lawyer about US LAW, clearly she knows nothing about it.

As far as I know, you cannot be charged with fraud, or anything else, for avoiding service of process. That does NOT necessarily mean that the lawsuit is dropped. They can, in most states, publish a legal notice in the newspaper where you were last known to reside and you would be considered served. The lawsuit would still go thru and you would still have a default judgment against you.

 

[vgmhilliard]

local newspapers??

.......They can, in most states, publish a legal notice in the newspaper where you were last known to reside and you would be considered served. The lawsuit would still go thru and you would still have a default judgment against you.

firstly cheers for your advice! much appreciated indeed!

my creditors/collection agencied are aware of my UK address. So wud they have to publish a legal notice in London newspapers?

 

[ylen13]

firstly cheers for your advice! much appreciated indeed!

my creditors/collection agencied are aware of my UK address. So wud they have to publish a legal notice in London newspapers?

u again getting in to usa/british laws. He was refereing to us laws. What can happen in briten you will need to consulte with lawyer in britten as laws are different then in usa.

 

[Ladynred]

I don't know that publishing anything in a UK newspaper would do anything except to tell the Brits that you owe someone money and you're being sued. The service by publication was ONLY for the US.

 

[Fred_BK]

Changing name helps

Why don't you just change your name when you obtain your British Citizenship? This would make you eligible for the SOL and cancel all your debt. The judgment has a SOL of 10 years in California I think. So if your name changes, then this would make it harder for creditors to contact you. Even if they publish in newspapers, then it's for your old name only. Your old name is no longer valid at that point. This would not make publishing in the newspapers (with your old obsolete name) not a legitimate way to serve you the notice.

Anyway, if all of the above doesn't work, then re-entering the USA with the new name as a British Citizen will offer you a fresh start because you could easily spend the SOL time without creditors or anybody know about you.

 

[Ladynred]

Changing a name won't stop a damned thing. They tie EVERYTHING to your Social Security Number, including lawsuits !! If the OP was born here and worked here, he has a SSN and just getting a 'new' one to get a new credit file is ILLEGAL !!!

 

[vgmhilliard]

don't think it's a good advice

Why don't you just change your name when you obtain your British Citizenship? This would make you eligible for the SOL and cancel all your debt..... re-entering the USA with the new name as a British Citizen will offer you a fresh start because you could easily spend the SOL time without creditors or anybody know about you.

I honestly do not think it's a good advice mate.

yes of coz u can change your name legally at any time not just when u become a subject to The Crown. However, do not forget that UK has for 500 yrs dealt with A) British fraudsters and criminals changing their names to run to first North American Colonies and later to Australia; B) criminals from the colonies all over the world trying to change their names to get to Britain; C) in the past 30 yrs all the IRA gaing trying to bomb everyone in Britain under false identities..... yes British police do not come round in hordes all armed to the teeth like back in the US, and Brits do not make 20 films every year showing how tough coppers are - but if u ask me, they are more efficient than us in policing.....

Under amendments to Anti-terrorist Bill, Police and MI5 have the right to thoroughly investigate any changes of names. Can u imagine what they r gonna think when they find out it was probably done to avoid paying debts back in the US?

Plus, I do not think it will solve my probs back in the US. It will just move me from the debtor category to a potential fraudster variety,

 

[Fred_BK]

Sol

Yes, I was wrong in terms of Britain's policing and how they find out. But I was only providing ideas for the USA and the Statue of Limitation (SOL).

If you are not able to file for bankruptcy, then remember SOL is one way to get out of debt (http://www.creditinfocenter.com/debt/settle_debts.shtml). I know many things in your life are tied to the Social Security number. But I know that changing a name will make it easier for the required SOL time to pass for your favor because credit card companies would then have more restricted criteria to find out about you (i.e., searches on your name would not produce results). It becomes harder for private companies to track you with the new name.

If the policing in the UK are that strict about changing names, then it’s not worth it to change name.

 

[ylen13]

actually sol will not pass, by leaving the country the sol will stop till you renter the country if i recall correctly. I know that is how it works for criminal sol and i belive it same for civil

 

[vgmhilliard]

reenter the country

actually sol will not pass, by leaving the country the sol will stop till you renter the country if i recall correctly. I know that is how it works for criminal sol and i belive it same for civil

sorry - a technicality - in case of SOL how do they know u left and then re-entered the country? R those proceedings somehow get tied to your passport? U know when u cross any international border, yiur passport gets swiped with the info on its magnetic stripe displayed on the screens of Passport Control. R u saying SOL proceedings result in an entry on that magnetic stripe information? Thx