Touchy subject

[MomIsWorried]

What is the name of your state? Ohio

I have posted many responses about how my ex and I get along so well ... which is true. We really do have a great post-divorce relationship. Visitation is open, and he gets the kids whenever he wants to ... I've never told him he can't have them on a certain day or time, and we try to split holidays so that each of us get some time with the kids on each holiday.

However...child support has become an issue, and I need some advice on what to do. At this point, he is over $5000 in arrears. He went a year without paying support. I understand that he was going through some trying times, and I didn't make a big deal out of it, knowing that I would eventually get the money. At this time, he is paying regularly and has been for about 6 months ... but he is only paying his monthly amount, with nothing extra going towards the arrears.

It has also been brought to my attention that he has had a considerable change in income, and is making much more money per hour than he ever has before. Currently, he is ordered to pay $379.00 per month for both kids. Based on his new income, his support obligation would raise to $812.00 per month (that's a $433.00 difference). He has not reported his change in income to the CSEA office (and is ordered to do so within 15 days of any change in address, employment, or income). Again, I have not made a big deal of this because I don't want to rock the boat. But I do want to address this issue with him, as I feel that he is trying to "get away with" not paying what he legally should be paying.

I don't want to make his life difficult, or make him struggle financially...that is not my intent. I am thinking about firing off an email to him, informing him that I am aware of his substantial change in income, and proposing an agreed-upon change in child support. There is a $433.00 difference in what he is paying now as opposed to what he should be paying. I'd be more than willing to cut that amount in half, and raise the current amount of child support to $596.00 per month, which is $217 more than what he pays now.

Any ideas on how to word this email? Am I asking for too much?

I know there aren't any legal questions here, but I really need some advice on this. Like I said before, I don't want to make his life difficult, but I feel that our kids could really benefit from an extra $217 a month in child support.

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: Any ideas on how to word this email? Am I asking for too much?

A: Why are you being so nice to this jerk? Anyway, you have pretty well spelled it out in your post. Copy and paste it in to an e-mail to the bad guy.

 

[critterperson]

What is the name of your state? Ohio

I have posted many responses about how my ex and I get along so well ... which is true. We really do have a great post-divorce relationship. Visitation is open, and he gets the kids whenever he wants to ... I've never told him he can't have them on a certain day or time, and we try to split holidays so that each of us get some time with the kids on each holiday.

However...child support has become an issue, and I need some advice on what to do. At this point, he is over $5000 in arrears. He went a year without paying support. I understand that he was going through some trying times, and I didn't make a big deal out of it, knowing that I would eventually get the money. At this time, he is paying regularly and has been for about 6 months ... but he is only paying his monthly amount, with nothing extra going towards the arrears.

It has also been brought to my attention that he has had a considerable change in income, and is making much more money per hour than he ever has before. Currently, he is ordered to pay $379.00 per month for both kids. Based on his new income, his support obligation would raise to $812.00 per month (that's a $433.00 difference). He has not reported his change in income to the CSEA office (and is ordered to do so within 15 days of any change in address, employment, or income). Again, I have not made a big deal of this because I don't want to rock the boat. But I do want to address this issue with him, as I feel that he is trying to "get away with" not paying what he legally should be paying.

I don't want to make his life difficult, or make him struggle financially...that is not my intent. I am thinking about firing off an email to him, informing him that I am aware of his substantial change in income, and proposing an agreed-upon change in child support. There is a $433.00 difference in what he is paying now as opposed to what he should be paying. I'd be more than willing to cut that amount in half, and raise the current amount of child support to $596.00 per month, which is $217 more than what he pays now.

Any ideas on how to word this email? Am I asking for too much? I know there aren't any legal questions here, but I really need some advice on this. Like I said before, I don't want to make his life difficult, but I feel that our kids could really benefit from an extra $217 a month in child support.

No! you are asking the father of your children to help in their support....I personally think you are being too nice....Of course you get along.. He appears to be walking all over you....He didn't pay for a year....you said "okay things happen" He can see the children whenever he wants (which is great until you want a life, and then you will see his true colors..) Honestly you sound like me 2 years ago...My ex and I got along great....he didn't pay anything I made excuses...He showed up all the time rendering me with no life.. I again made excuses...I finally put my foot down, and demanded a little bit of a life, and that he pay child support… That is when Mr. Friendly turned into Mr. Butthead....

You have to decide what is important to you….If you don’t mind picking up his slack then keep it the way it is….But, if you are like me… you will finally have to say enough is enough, and make him be a responsible parent meaning he will have to pay his full share….I am in no way saying not to try nice first…I am just saying that most likely it will not end up nice….I could be wrong, but that is what happened in my situation….Good Luck to You!!!!

 

[NotSoNew]

he didnt pay for a year but he is paying now right?? is he trying to catch up on the arrears at all?

i dont think your being too nice, people are too quick to jump to the conclusion that he is a deadbeat because he ran into some hard times, had they been married and he ran into hard times thats ok! but now he's a deadbeat?

personally there is no easy or nice way to tell him this though, no matter why he is probably going to get upset, why because money and children are what is most imporatant to people and when you hit them there is hurts, but he will get over it. I personally dont agree with the way child support is calculated, if you can support them on 379 a month before (what the court determined was his cost in raising them) when he gets a raise do the children suddenly become more expensive to raise? no, instead there should be a fix cost regardless of anyones income but thats just my opinion.

 

[betterthanher]

It has also been brought to my attention that he has had a considerable change in income, and is making much more money per hour than he ever has before. Currently, he is ordered to pay $379.00 per month for both kids. Based on his new income, his support obligation would raise to $812.00 per month (that's a $433.00 difference). He has not reported his change in income to the CSEA office (and is ordered to do so within 15 days of any change in address, employment, or income). Again, I have not made a big deal of this because I don't want to rock the boat. But I do want to address this issue with him, as I feel that he is trying to "get away with" not paying what he legally should be paying.

Does is specifically say HE is to "report any change in income"??

I don't want to make his life difficult, or make him struggle financially...that is not my intent. I am thinking about firing off an email to him, informing him that I am aware of his substantial change in income, and proposing an agreed-upon change in child support. There is a $433.00 difference in what he is paying now as opposed to what he should be paying. I'd be more than willing to cut that amount in half, and raise the current amount of child support to $596.00 per month, which is $217 more than what he pays now.

Any ideas on how to word this email? Am I asking for too much?

I know there aren't any legal questions here, but I really need some advice on this. Like I said before, I don't want to make his life difficult, but I feel that our kids could really benefit from an extra $217 a month in child support.

Email him and ask.

As far as the arrears, both of you might be able to reach and agreement to quash them. Are there any summer camps, band camps, etc that the children participate in? What about activities that cost money (sports)? What about any kind of insurance? I had a couple grand arrearage (because this state is slow as hell and took them months to even issue an order with a calculation on it) and quashed it by offering the kids dental insurance. Of course, the mom didn't like it because she wasn't going to get extra money. But then again, mom's an idiot. But I digree.

 

[MomIsWorried]

He appears to be walking all over you....He didn't pay for a year....you said "okay things happen" He can see the children whenever he wants (which is great until you want a life, and then you will see his true colors..)

Yes, I totally understood why he didn't pay for a year. It is a very personal issue for him, and even though no one here would ever be able to figure out who he is, I didn't feel comfortable posting about it...but I will say that he had some serious health issues ~ he could have asked for a temporary reduction at that time, but he didn't. And yes, he can see the kids whenever he wants. He lives over 2 hours from me (same state, just different ends of it), so it's not like he is disrupting my schedule a lot. At this point, our oldest daughter is doing a computer-based home school so she has opted to stay with her dad every other week (on average). Until I found out about the change in income, I had considered asking him if he wanted to have a CS review done since he has one of our children 50% of the time. (**Edit: He would have been eligible for a reduction in support based on his having our daughter 2 weeks out of each month.)

if you can support them on 379 a month before (what the court determined was his cost in raising them) when he gets a raise do the children suddenly become more expensive to raise?

Of course they don't suddenly become more expensive just because he got a raise...but supporting them on $379.00 a month is becomming more difficult as they are now ages 14 and 16. Teenagers are very expensive. We have not had a review in child support for years...probably 1998 was the last time we had one...maybe it was 1999, I can't remember exactly. And, I would never call him a deadbeat. He's a great father...and he was a great father even when he couldn't pay support.

Does is specifically say HE is to "report any change in income"??

The order says:

WHEN THE OBLIGOR MUST NOTIFY THE CSEA

1. Of any change in the obligor's income source, and of the availability of any other sources of income or assets that can be the subject of any withholding or deduction.

2. A description of the nature of any new employment or income source, the name and business address and telephone number.

Then there is another paper that the CS office mails out twice a year, and it has a bunch of fill-in-the-blank questions such as:

I wil lbe employed as a _____, at (name of new employer and payroll address) My new rate of pay will be $___ per _____. I am scheduled to have ______ pay checks per year.

The thing is, up until 6 months ago, he was self employed...he had tried to start his own business and it failed badly. So he went back to work full time, which is why I am now getting CS regularly again. As far as the arrears go, I check the SETS System (an automated phone system where I can check when the last payment was made, what the arrears are, etc.) frequently, and the amount of arrears (after his monthly payments are deducted) still amounts to over $5000, so I don't think anything is coming out for arrears.

As far as the arrears, both of you might be able to reach and agreement to quash them

He actually asked me to do this for him, and I said no. I had released him from $400 in arrears several years ago. He had changed jobs (from an employer to self-employment) and got behind right off the bat, we made a deal on some other issues, and I released him from that $400. I just don't see where I can do that again with $5000+ ... that's not fair to our children. He has stated that he is trying to refinance his house, and to include a couple of bills in the refi...and if he gets it, he will pay the arrears in one lump sum. I have told the children that I will divide that between them, and allow them to spend x-amount of dollars on new clothes, and the rest will be put into their savings accounts and they cannot touch it without my permission. Our oldest daughter would love to use that money to buy a car with. She has held a part-time job since she was 14, and has been saving for a car since she started her job...so adding roughly $2000 to what she already has in savings would get her a pretty nice used car. (I know I will hear a lot of negative comments about me handing over $5000 in support to my kids, but there are stipulations in regards to that money. That money was to be used for them in the first place. My husband and I took care of their needs for the year my ex didn't pay support...and my husband is 100% supportive of me allowing the kids to have this money, if it is, in fact, paid in a lump sum.)

Thanks for your responses. You have each given me something to think about, and I appreciate that.

 

[wrkngmom]

Every divorced woman I know says that everything is fine until money comes into the picture. If you need an increase apply for it. Your children are more important than keeping things easy for the ex who lives 2 hours away. MHO

 

[mom22boyz]

If you can prove he has had a signficant increase in income, why not just file with CSEA for a mod?

Call your local CSEA and request a "Request for Administrative Review" Form. According to what you have stated you can either chose:

option (1) It has been at least 36 months since the date of the most recent support order.

OR

option (6) The other party has experienced a 30% increase in gross income or income producing assets for a period of at least 6 months and which can reasonably be expected to continue for an extended period of time. If you select this option, you must have proof of your claim.

They will request up to date info from both of you and issue a new order. It's actually a lot easier than requesting that he comply with a change and file an Agreed Entry.

 

[MomIsWorried]

If you can prove he has had a signficant increase in income, why not just file with CSEA for a mod?

Call your local CSEA and request a "Request for Administrative Review" Form. According to what you have stated you can either chose:

option (1) It has been at least 36 months since the date of the most recent support order.

OR

option (6) The other party has experienced a 30% increase in gross income or income producing assets for a period of at least 6 months and which can reasonably be expected to continue for an extended period of time. If you select this option, you must have proof of your claim.

They will request up to date info from both of you and issue a new order. It's actually a lot easier than requesting that he comply with a change and file an Agreed Entry.

I know that is an option...however, will CSEA tell him that I was the one who requested the review? I know I must sound like a wimp to many of you...but I have my reasons for not wanting to rock the boat, and it's very hard for me to expain those reasons.

Thanks.

 

[NCP Dad in TN]

Here are some options...

1. Simply call the child support agency and request a review.

2. Send that email, hold your breath, and hope he doesn't take offense.

3. Mail him a copy of the order with the part about CS highlighted. No other correpsondence needed.

4. Call the CS office and ask if they have sent him that form recently, and if he returned it. If not, ask that they "update their files".... do they do that?

5. Just pick up the phone and call him.

I don't know if the CS office tells the paying parent who requested the review... we are currently researching that same topic... but honestly, who cares? You should have your support reveiwed every three or four years, anyway. It may not be changed, but at least it will be CURRENT. That is not unreasonable.

I know that you have a good relationship with him, and you don't want to rock the boat, especially given his present health condition. But if he is NOT using you, and TRULY wants to do good by you and his kids, he won't get mad. He may stress over paying more money, but that is different than getting MAD. And if he gets upset,then you'll know his intentions may not be as pure as you think.
Is it possible that he is "so nice" and maintains such a great relationship because he knows it keeps you afraid of rocking that boat? You know, being super sweet and helpful... like offering to fill your gas tank if you meet him halfway for visitation swaps, stuff like that?
Bottom line is you need to decide what is more important: Financially providing for the kids, or a relationship with a man you are not married to. You were kind when he couldn't afford to keep up his financial obligation and you didn't flip out like most people... but there comes a point when you can't keep being "Mrs. Nice Guy"... if he can afford it, he needs to do it.
For the arrears... good ideas. Maybe he can give a chunk to one daughter for her car down payment, another chunk to the other, etc. The rest can go into an account like you said for the future. COLLEGE!!!!

-B

 

[betterthanher]

Of course they don't suddenly become more expensive just because he got a raise...but supporting them on $379.00 a month is becomming more difficult as they are now ages 14 and 16. Teenagers are very expensive. We have not had a review in child support for years...probably 1998 was the last time we had one...maybe it was 1999, I can't remember exactly. And, I would never call him a deadbeat. He's a great father...and he was a great father even when he couldn't pay support.

Well, given the relationship the both of you have AND given the fact you haven't filed for a modification in almost 7 years, you really should offer him the median amount of the difference. After all, I am sure he has a family to support as well and BOTH families should benefit (although some many not think that, but I don't give an ish).

The order says:
"WHEN THE OBLIGOR MUST NOTIFY THE CSEA

1. Of any change in the obligor's income source, and of the availability of any other sources of income or assets that can be the subject of any withholding or deduction.

2. A description of the nature of any new employment or income source, the name and business address and telephone number."

You are misreading and misunderstanding the language. This is what I thought, but didn't want to assume it before I saw it. This language does NOT mean because he got a raise that he is to report it.

#1 reflects if he got a new job or lost a job. NOT recieved a raise. The second sentence, IMO, is a bunch of crap. This implies if the obligor got a second job to support their current family, that they are to report that to CSEA.

#2 reflects giving the CSEA info regarding the new employer.

 

[betterthanher]

Every divorced woman I know says that everything is fine until money comes into the picture. If you need an increase apply for it. Your children are more important than keeping things easy for the ex who lives 2 hours away. MHO

This is the problem with attitudes from women like you. Child support is not to be modified when "you need an increase." If you need more money, get a second job. Just because you're the obligee doesn't mean you're exempt from getting off your can and doing what you can for your family. It's a 2-way street, let's not forget. And the attitude of your last sentence is horsecrap. I can see you're a drama queen.

 

[MomIsWorried]

You are misreading and misunderstanding the language. This is what I thought, but didn't want to assume it before I saw it. This language does NOT mean because he got a raise that he is to report it.

Posted earlier by me:

The thing is, up until 6 months ago, he was self employed...he had tried to start his own business and it failed badly. So he went back to work full time, which is why I am now getting CS regularly again.

I know that he doesn't have to report a raise ... but he went from being self-employed to working for a company, and I don't believe he has reported this to CSEA yet.

It's a strange situation. He actually had 3 small businesses ... bookkeeping, property management, and ... something else, I can't remember. One of the companies he was doing bookkeeping for is owned by his sister and brother-in-law, and when his business failed, they hired him on with their company full time. This was just brought to my attention within the past 2 weeks. (Our oldest daughter does some filing and computer work for this company when she is with the ex, and she said something about "Aunt L" coming to the office to get something...I asked her why "Aunt L" was coming into her dad's office, and she said "Duh mom, because Aunt L and her husband own the business.") So, my thinking is that he hasn't informed CSEA of his change in employment, and since he handles payroll at the company, he isn't taking CS out of his checks ... he deposits the amount of CS into his own account, then cuts a CS check from that account.

$812 is a lot of money to pay out in child support (although I know some people pay a LOT more) ... I've said it before, I don't want to put a huge financial burden on him ... but I also don't feel it's right for him to avoid paying more support, if he has a substantial change in income - which he has ... and I really don't think he's being honest with CSEA about his employment or income.

 

[xKellyx]

Posted earlier by me:



I know that he doesn't have to report a raise ... but he went from being self-employed to working for a company, and I don't believe he has reported this to CSEA yet.

It's a strange situation. He actually had 3 small businesses ... bookkeeping, property management, and ... something else, I can't remember. One of the companies he was doing bookkeeping for is owned by his sister and brother-in-law, and when his business failed, they hired him on with their company full time. This was just brought to my attention within the past 2 weeks. (Our oldest daughter does some filing and computer work for this company when she is with the ex, and she said something about "Aunt L" coming to the office to get something...I asked her why "Aunt L" was coming into her dad's office, and she said "Duh mom, because Aunt L and her husband own the business.") So, my thinking is that he hasn't informed CSEA of his change in employment, and since he handles payroll at the company, he isn't taking CS out of his checks ... he deposits the amount of CS into his own account, then cuts a CS check from that account.

$812 is a lot of money to pay out in child support (although I know some people pay a LOT more) ... I've said it before, I don't want to put a huge financial burden on him ... but I also don't feel it's right for him to avoid paying more support, if he has a substantial change in income - which he has ... and I really don't think he's being honest with CSEA about his employment or income.

$379 is NOTHING for 2 kids, I get double that and I only have 1 kid, I'm sure you dish out WAY more than $379 for your kids every month. YOUR kids deserve the extra support. Kids do cost more the older they get, whether anyone makes more or not, they are more expensive. You shouldn't have to work 2 jobs to support your kids when both you and the father can afford them each only working 1 job. Your kids need you to be with them and not out working all the time.

 

[MomIsWorried]

Every divorced woman I know says that everything is fine until money comes into the picture. If you need an increase apply for it. Your children are more important than keeping things easy for the ex who lives 2 hours away. MHO

*I* don't need the increase ... but it would benefit the children.

I have a different way of handling CS than I think a lot of parents do. I split it up between the kids and myself...we each get 1/3 of what the ex sends. The kids know that they are responsible for certain things with that money. I buy basic school supplies ... if they want special things (like those annoying gel pens, or the pretty notebooks or folders) then they have to buy those things themselves. Clothing also comes into play. I buy them school clothes every year, but I refuse to spend $80 on a pair of jeans ... so they are more than welcome to save up their CS and buy the jeans (or other expensive items) themselves. I don't give my kids an allowance, so they also use their CS money if they want to go out with friends (bowling, to the movies) ... but I do require that they put some money into their savings accounts. I started this a few years ago, as a way to teach them to be responsible with money. I use the 1/3 I get per month to go towards household bills (electric, phone, food, gas to drive them around). It works out well for all 3 of us.