Trial outcome - please help

[killerzoey]

TAX question

OK so I have started trying to negotiate w/ his lawyer. I am waiting for an answer from her on what I proposed.

I did not bring up the tax issue though and I want to know what you think about me asking to be able to claim both kids each year. Here's why:

1) STBX has K-1 income (partnership income from some rental somewhere his family's trust owns). This income categorically excludes him from getting the earned income tax credit (EITC).

2) STBX has no real earned income anyway, so even if he were to get the EITC it wouldn't amount to much. He would gain a small reduction in the amount of taxes owed but nowhere near what I would stand to gain.

3) I DO qualify for the EITC, and it would be a huge bonus for me and the kids.

Assuming we share legal and physical custody but the kids are with me slightly more of the time in the future, is it ok for me to request this? To me it seems like free money that only I would have access to, therefore for the good of the kids this is how it should go. It will also help offset the low child support.

Your thoughts? Thanks.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

What is the split percentage wise of who has the children?

 

[killerzoey]

What is the split percentage wise of who has the children?

We only have temporary orders right now and they are for shared physical custody. Our current visitation order has me having them about 65% of the time, but the intent is for us to move toward 50/50. I would imagine I'd have them at least just over half the time in the future, but it's not certain yet.

 

[CJane]

We only have temporary orders right now and they are for shared physical custody. Our current visitation order has me having them about 65% of the time, but the intent is for us to move toward 50/50. I would imagine I'd have them at least just over half the time in the future, but it's not certain yet.

If you have the kids even ONE MORE day than Dad, HE cannot claim EITC EVEN IF he met every other requirement. He could claim the child tax credit, but not the earned income tax credit.

You should offer that one of you claims one kid as a dependent EVERY year, and the other one claims the other.

Offer to claim the younger child, and you get the deduction for a longer period of time. Dad claiming the kid(s) as a deduction does NOT make it so you can't claim them on EITC.

 

[killerzoey]

If you have the kids even ONE MORE day than Dad, HE cannot claim EITC EVEN IF he met every other requirement. He could claim the child tax credit, but not the earned income tax credit.

You should offer that one of you claims one kid as a dependent EVERY year, and the other one claims the other.

Offer to claim the younger child, and you get the deduction for a longer period of time. Dad claiming the kid(s) as a deduction does NOT make it so you can't claim them on EITC.

Oh, ok. Thanks for that info.

Just so I totally understand, even if Dad claims one as a dependent and I claim one as a dependent on a given year, I can still claim BOTH for the EITC on that same year???

I just need to be totally clear as I'm trying to settle this pro se.

ALSO (NEW QUESTION):

Now he has offered to pay for preschool and asked the daycare provider how much is daycare (I told him he is either going to have to BE daycare or pay for it as I have paid our part for a year and cannot do it anymore now that the subsidy is all but gone). He used to give me grief for using daycare and now he is suddenly wanting to know all about it when it's going to be up to him to watch an 18 month old while I work! Anyway, these costs combined are $900. Will the judge care at all that this person who claimed he had an income of $1100 a month and wanted child support to be based on that, suddenly can spring for all this stuff? Will that raise an eyebrow in a normal court?

He also sent me an e-mail saying he'd pay me an additional $300 a month over and above the child support. He offered this when I told him I was having to move from our neighborhood to low income housing about 30 miles away, and that this would save me around $300.

I told him thank you very, very much and let's settle, but I need it to be in the divorce decree so I could count on it. He said "Don't you trust me?" (No.) We both seem to want me to stay in the neighborhood for the kids' sake, so that's good. I talked to his lawyer (I'm pro se) and said he is willing to do this, but can we please put it in the decree. She said she would advise him against that, and that the judge isn't gonna give any more than the $200 in child support. She seems to be trying to keep him from helping me. I said how about just temporarily so I can stay in the neighborhood while I finish my credentials - about 2 years. I said what about temporary spousal support? She said she would advise against that. I said well if it isn't legally binding I cannot count on it. She said you'd better just make your plans then.

I know it is not a good idea to count on support. But I am in a situation where I sort of have to, at least for a short time. If they can't make it binding, I have to move. Even that won't solve everything. But I have to do everything I can. I am getting into a teaching credential program soon and will have a much better financial outlook in 2012.

Anyway,

He then said "I'll pay you the extra money if you draw some magnet designs for me every month". He sells magnets at the swap meet. There's no money in it, even for him. It's about control and humiliation. I can't trust this guy at all. But knowing I don't want to disrupt the girls' lives if I don't have to I said *sigh* well if that's what it takes, but you have to create a contract so I know I can count on it.

Then I realized that this 'extra' money would be considered income if I am working for it, right?. I can't do that then. I'd end up paying a good bit back to Uncle Sam and it would increase my child support obligation, which is sort of counterproductive.

The only other option I thought of would be to ask my landlord to draft up a lease where STBX is responsible for $300 of it. Would THAT be considered income????

This is just so sickening for me. I have always worked and lived well within my means. To be in this situation where I have to worry about relying on him is very humiliating. For now it is what it is, but it is truly awful.

 

[nextwife]

The only other option I thought of would be to ask my landlord to draft up a lease where STBX is responsible for $300 of it. Would THAT be considered income????

AS a landlord myself, I can betcha you won't find a landlord agreeing to making it their responsibility to collect $300 of the monthly rent payment from someone offsite. What is his recourse if he isn't paid that $300 or it comes late every month? Evict him? Evict you? No landlord wants to collect their monthly rent from two different people in different locations. Agreeing to collect part of the rent from a third party creates a legal nightmare due to Landlord tenant laws.

 

[Ohiogal]

ALSO (NEW QUESTION):

Now he has offered to pay for preschool and asked the daycare provider how much is daycare (I told him he is either going to have to BE daycare or pay for it as I have paid our part for a year and cannot do it anymore now that the subsidy is all but gone). He used to give me grief for using daycare and now he is suddenly wanting to know all about it when it's going to be up to him to watch an 18 month old while I work! Anyway, these costs combined are $900. Will the judge care at all that this person who claimed he had an income of $1100 a month and wanted child support to be based on that, suddenly can spring for all this stuff? Will that raise an eyebrow in a normal court?

The court will NOT require him to pay ALL of daycare. He will have to pay a portion. And why should HE have to spring for it totally? These are your children as well. Also he is allowed to ask the daycare provider how much things are. That doesn't mean he has agreed to pay for it.

He also sent me an e-mail saying he'd pay me an additional $300 a month over and above the child support. He offered this when I told him I was having to move from our neighborhood to low income housing about 30 miles away, and that this would save me around $300.

That is nice but it doesn't mean that he will be held to it. It could be considered negotiation which is NOT admissible.

I told him thank you very, very much and let's settle, but I need it to be in the divorce decree so I could count on it. He said "Don't you trust me?" (No.) We both seem to want me to stay in the neighborhood for the kids' sake, so that's good. I talked to his lawyer (I'm pro se) and said he is willing to do this, but can we please put it in the decree. She said she would advise him against that, and that the judge isn't gonna give any more than the $200 in child support. She seems to be trying to keep him from helping me.

No -- she is representing her client. And I don't blame her. I would be telling him the exact same thing. He shouldn't give you a PENNY MORE than what was ordered.

I said how about just temporarily so I can stay in the neighborhood while I finish my credentials - about 2 years. I said what about temporary spousal support? She said she would advise against that. I said well if it isn't legally binding I cannot count on it. She said you'd better just make your plans then.

I agree with the attorney. Make your plans to do what you have to do because I wouldn't be advising my client to pay you a dime more than what was ordered. Also spousal support is considered INCOME.

I know it is not a good idea to count on support. But I am in a situation where I sort of have to, at least for a short time. If they can't make it binding, I have to move. Even that won't solve everything. But I have to do everything I can. I am getting into a teaching credential program soon and will have a much better financial outlook in 2012.

Is that guaranteed?

Anyway,

He then said "I'll pay you the extra money if you draw some magnet designs for me every month". He sells magnets at the swap meet. There's no money in it, even for him. It's about control and humiliation. I can't trust this guy at all. But knowing I don't want to disrupt the girls' lives if I don't have to I said *sigh* well if that's what it takes, but you have to create a contract so I know I can count on it.

Really? A contract so you can count on it? How many designs are you going to do?

Then I realized that this 'extra' money would be considered income if I am working for it, right?. I can't do that then. I'd end up paying a good bit back to Uncle Sam and it would increase my child support obligation, which is sort of counterproductive.

Spousal support would be income as well.

The only other option I thought of would be to ask my landlord to draft up a lease where STBX is responsible for $300 of it. Would THAT be considered income????

That could also be considered income.

This is just so sickening for me. I have always worked and lived well within my means. To be in this situation where I have to worry about relying on him is very humiliating. For now it is what it is, but it is truly awful.

So you just want him to gift you money and you don't want to actually earn more because you would have to pay more?

 

[LdiJ]

Oh, ok. Thanks for that info.

Just so I totally understand, even if Dad claims one as a dependent and I claim one as a dependent on a given year, I can still claim BOTH for the EITC on that same year???

As long as you are the person with whom the children primarily live, you can claim EITC for both of them, no matter if dad claims them as dependents or not.

Dad cannot ever claim EITC unless the children primarily live with him, and you are also right that if dad has more than 2500.00 in income from a Schedule K-1 (unless he is a working partner who pays SS and medicare taxes on his K-1 income) he cannot claim EITC.

 

[killerzoey]

As long as you are the person with whom the children primarily live, you can claim EITC for both of them, no matter if dad claims them as dependents or not.

Dad cannot ever claim EITC unless the children primarily live with him, and you are also right that if dad has more than 2500.00 in income from a Schedule K-1 (unless he is a working partner who pays SS and medicare taxes on his K-1 income) he cannot claim EITC.

Thank you very much, LdiJ.

 

[killerzoey]

So OhioGal, you don't think there is ever a time when someone should pay more than the order? This order was for $200 for two children. It is based on falsely stated income and he apparently knows it. I am surprised that a lawyer would not say "if you want to do this so that your kids stay nearby, that's fine". I just don't see why not.

I did not know that spousal support is considered income. Thank you for very much for that information.

Of course I know the court would not require him to pay for all daycare. But after meeting with a lawyer and getting a little professional grooming, he started saying that he did not want her in daycare back when she began (he did - he's lying. One of the reasons I left is he wanted zero time with the kids and it was really dysfunctional) and that he wanted to BE daycare for her, since he does not work. He did this rather openly in front of the court. He was trying to get more time and trying to justify not working. I am just taking him up on that. Will it hold in court if he bucks? Probably not. But he will have to explain why he does not work, does not want to watch our child so I can work, when his whole stance has been how I should "be the ONE to work".

ETA: He just told me that the reason he doesn't want this additional support to be written into the decree is that he doesn't want the judge seeing a pattern of him being able to give more than the judge ordered. Said his lawyer advised him to do it on the side for this reason. Oh for heaven's sake. He spent all this money to get this ridiculously low (even HE knows it) order, and now he's got to worry about preserving it. Anyway, I didn't say so, but won't having extra money to suddenly pay me regularly on the side, along with paying for preschool and perhaps daycare ALSO illustrate to the judge that he was fibbing about what he has at his disposal? Is he really being as smart as he thinks he is?