Under age daughter in MVA with no DL

[Shay-Pari'e]

I think JETX needs to dawn his thong for this one.

 

[OHNnurse]

Shew you guys are really brutal. First off I simply asked for legal advice. I thought that was what this board was for but obviously I was wrong. This is a board for some people to be judgmental and critical of others. You guys have no idea what my children are like. I did not ask you to judge them I only ask for legal advice on a situation. I see this was not the place to come for that! I do not want any more "advice" from this board. There have been a few people who have tried to help but overall I have only received criticism and child rearing advice! Which I did not ask for or need.

JETXI would strongly suggest you reconsider your career if you plan on being a nurse someday. Your 'sense of logic' simply isn't there.I AM a nurse (RN) and have been for close to 15 years!
Bottom line... you are clearly an ignorant little snot-nosed spoiled brat who now realizes that what you did was stupid. There you go with the name calling again! Just for your information Webster defines ignorant as destitute of knowledge or education. I am sure you are going to use it more in the future. Criticism does seem to be your strong point.

Teenagers do stupid things but that does not make them ignorant or stupid. We really don't know why they do these things. Yes, they have to take responsibility for their actions but they need love, respect, and understanding. Not name calling and judgmental behavior. I hope those of you who are so critical never have any kids or if you do I can only say God help them if they ever make a mistake!

Thanks rmet4nzkx for your comments. I do have an appointment with an attorney. I will ask him about the things that you brought up. Once again, Thanks.

Raisinette She is a teenager. She is irresponsible. It is a huge job to teach & to learn responsibility. This is more important than "self-esteem." Real self-esteem will come from learning to be responsible. This is where, from my reading, she will need your very most serious help, not in excusing her because of her age.

Actions have consequences. Even quick, stupid actions can have serious, expensive consequences. Responsibility in rising to and dealing with them is half the battle.

With all due respect.

Thanks for your comments. I am not excusing what she did. She did a stupid thing but she is not stupid. I am only saying I don't know why she did it only to say that this is typical teenage behavior...Reckless and not always thinking of consequences. Physiologically teenagers think abstractive. This is just the phase of development that their brain is going through during the teen and early 20's. She will have to face the consequences and take responsibility. I do appreciate your honesty.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Shew you guys are really brutal. First off I simply asked for legal advice. I thought that was what this board was for but obviously I was wrong. This is a board for some people to be judgmental and critical of others. You guys have no idea what my children are like. I did not ask you to judge them Do you recall judging the people responding? You want to hear what you want, and that is not going to happen.

I only ask for legal advice on a situation. I see this was not the place to come for that! I do not want any more "advice" from this board. Then why are you still typing?


There have been a few people who have tried to help but overall I have only received criticism and child rearing advice! Which I did not ask for or need. You got your legal advice. I think it's time for you to point the finger at yourself.

JETXI would strongly suggest you reconsider your career if you plan on being a nurse someday. Your 'sense of logic' simply isn't there.I AM a nurse (RN) and have been for close to 15 years!
Bottom line... you are clearly an ignorant little snot-nosed spoiled brat who now realizes that what you did was stupid. There you go with the name calling again! Just for your information Webster defines ignorant as destitute of knowledge or education. I am sure you are going to use it more in the future. Criticism does seem to be your strong point.

Teenagers do stupid things but that does not make them ignorant or stupid. We really don't know why they do these things. Yes, they have to take responsibility for their actions but they need love, respect, and understanding. Not name calling and judgmental behavior. I hope those of you who are so critical never have any kids or if you do I can only say God help them if they ever make a mistake!

Thanks rmet4nzkx for your comments. I do have an appointment with an attorney. I will ask him about the things that you brought up. Once again, Thanks.

Raisinette She is a teenager. She is irresponsible. It is a huge job to teach & to learn responsibility. This is more important than "self-esteem." Real self-esteem will come from learning to be responsible. This is where, from my reading, she will need your very most serious help, not in excusing her because of her age.

Actions have consequences. Even quick, stupid actions can have serious, expensive consequences. Responsibility in rising to and dealing with them is half the battle.

With all due respect.

Thanks for your comments. I am not excusing what she did. She did a stupid thing but she is not stupid. I am only saying I don't know why she did it only to say that this is typical teenage behavior...Reckless and not always thinking of consequences. Physiologically teenagers think abstractive. This is just the phase of development that their brain is going through during the teen and early 20's. She will have to face the consequences and take responsibility. I do appreciate your honesty.

What age is your brain in?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Legal advice often is brutal and not welcome when it is not what you want to hear. I gave you some hints of things that you will be discussing with your attorney.
Obviously, if your daughter is 17 and no license, you have had reservations about her having one, now you have a lot more. I suggest that you do not sign for her license until she has reached her majority and pays for her own car and insurance. It is possible that the state will withhold her license anyway.

Just because they are teenagers doesn't mean that we can give lots of excuses for everything they do, here is an instance where she didn't even use common sense of a teenager and like I said there is more that you don't know. This is more serious than borrowing her sister's sweater and getting a stain on it, someone could have been killed. Please take this as a wakeup call.

 

[stephenk]

notify your auto insurance company of the incident. odds are in your favor that the carrier will provide coverage for the accident. most carriers do not want to risk a coverage lawsuit on something that can reasonably be argued as permissive use.your rates will go up if any money is paid to the boy for his injuries if a determination is made by your carrier that your daughter was more than 50% at fault for the accident.

The boy asking your daughter to drive would seem to be more than 50% of the problem. he "assumed the risk" in jumping on the bumper and asking that she drive.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Steph, The girl did not have a licence, so what exactly are you saying? They won't cover an uninsured driver.

I'm interested in your feed back as I have a couple kids that will drive sometime.

 

[JETX]

Shew you guys are really brutal. First off I simply asked for legal advice. I thought that was what this board was for but obviously I was wrong.

Yep, and you got accurate and proper legal advice... by both stephenk and myself.

This is a board for some people to be judgmental and critical of others.

Of course we are judgmental.... and critical when necessary. However, if you were able to put your emotions in check for a few minutes and really LOOK at this thread, you will see that the 'problems' ONLY came out when YOU decided to ignore the advice and continue with your posts.

 

[LdiJ]

To the original poster:

Yes you got some "brutal" responses here, and personally I agree that some of them were VERY unnecessary and didn't do you any good.

You are absolutely correct that even the best of teenagers make REALLY stupid decisions sometimes. I have a teenager....BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

My daughter is still dealing from the "fall-out" of simply being stupid enough to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Before that she was a naive little girl, good student, good kid, never in trouble, no drugs, no drinking, NO PROBLEM. Since then she has become cynical, traumatized, is in counselling, and is struggling to get back to where she was. However I don't think that she will ever trust the criminal justice system again...and I am not entirely sure that I will either...sigh. To this day I sincerely REGRET telling my daughter to fully cooperate with the police. The 12 kids who didn't cooperate didn't experience the "fallout"....the two who did...did.

The "system" these days is "brutal" on teens. The system almost HAS to be because of the epidemic in teen crime.

Some of the people on this board have a hard time believing in good kids who make bad choices. They assume that either the parents should be blamed for poor parenting, or that the parents are living in fantasyland for believing that their kids are basically good kids.

I do understand what you are dealing with now...and unfortunately its going to do some damage to BOTH of your daughters....mostly in terms of getting insurance at reasonable rates...and for your younger daughter in complications/expense in getting a driver's license. However, despite all of that its not necessarily a bad lesson for them to learn.

However, as others have told you its also very probable that the "surfer" will be held at fault to some extent as well...particularly since he was a legal adult. So at least the financial consequences may not be as damaging as they could be.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

LDJ, I understand your emotions. This thread is not about emotions. The poster is in denial of her girl's actions.

I have a teenage boy, I understand it all. Legally the younger daughter is not insured on this vehicle. Mom may have full coverage, but the kid who jumped on the car and said "DRIVE", was injured. Of course this is immaturity on the kids part, but the fact remains............She did not have a license, some idiot boy was injured,(That will come into play with the "Fault" issue").

Of course they are kids, no one is saying anything other than that.

Do I think it was stupid?....Yes I do. If it was my kid, I would think it was stupid.

How about everyone go back to the legal question, that was already answered.?

 

[stephenk]

Steph, The girl did not have a licence, so what exactly are you saying? They won't cover an uninsured driver.

I'm interested in your feed back as I have a couple kids that will drive sometime.

Unless the girl was specifically excluded under the policy, implied permission could be argued on her behalf. her older sister let her sit in the car with the keys. There is no evidence that the older sister specifically told her younger sister to not drive the car. it is an iffy argument but most carriers will rather provide coverage and increase the family premiums than spend money to fight coverage.

 

[OHNnurse]

To the original poster:

Some of the people on this board have a hard time believing in good kids who make bad choices. They assume that either the parents should be blamed for poor parenting, or that the parents are living in fantasyland for believing that their kids are basically good kids.

I guess it is hard for people to understand the entire situation and the relationship between parents and teens from reading a board. I really don't know where everyone gets that I am making excuses because I am not. It was very stupid. I was just trying to get the point across that teenagers do stupid things but that doesn't make them stupid or ignorant. Mature adults don't resort to name calling! My kids are basically good kids. They both made a mistake and they will have to pay for it. I wish you luck with your situation. I will keep you and your daughter in my prayers!

stephenk
I did turn it in to the insurance but I do not know if they are going to cover it yet. The way the policy reads it looks like they will but I guess I will just have to see. I will discuss it with my attorney if it comes down to them not covering it. Thanks for the information.

 

[lwpat]

I will discuss it with my attorney if it comes down to them not covering it.

The question is why you have not already discussed it with your attorney rather than posting on a free forum? It is very likely that you and your daughter will be sued. Only your 18 year old will possibly be covered under the auto insurance. You are still at risk and need legal representation.

Neither daughter needs to give any statements to anyone without talking to an attorney. At least you were smart enough to have the car and insurance in her name. The recommendation about umbrella insurance is also a very good one.

 

[OHNnurse]

Update

My daughter was charged with a felony...Reckless Endangerment. We went to court and all charges were dismissed. No witnesses were called to testify. The Judge stated that the charges should not have been filed to begin with since there was no evidence that my daughter did anything to purposely harm the man. The police officer stated that he did not think she should have been charged.

The man's attorney told our attorney that they still plan to file a civil suit. I am waiting to be served any day now. My oldest daughter's insurance has stated that they WILL provide an attorney. They did mention some type of responsibility law in TN. If the injured is 51% or > responsible for the accident, then he can't recover any loss. I think someone mentioned this.

My daughter is paying us to cover her attorney fees. We are putting the money aside for her to use for college (she doesn't know that we are going to give it back when she goes to college.)

My main reason for posting this update was to show others the outcome so far and how the advise that I was given related to that outcome. As you can see from the previous posts, some people gave very accurate advice and stayed on the subject of giving legal advice (Stephenk's advice was very accurate). While others were giving an opinion and for some reason feel that if someone ask for legal advice they can call them names, criticize, and pass judgment. These types of people should just be ignored. These people thrive on putting people down and do not deserve to be acknowledged. I should have ignored those post. I let my emotions get in the way. I know that my daughters are intelligent young ladies who will make mistakes. I know that they have to aknowledge their mistakes and pay the consequences. If anyone thinks their children will not ever make a stupid mistake then they are in for a rude awakening! While I do agree that it was a stupid mistake I do not agree that this makes her stupid. There is a difference in being stupid and doing something stupid. You can read the previous threads and see where accurate advice was given and where it wasn’t. I do believe that most people that responded to my post were trying to help. I would like to say thank you to those people.

We still may have a civil suit to face. Please remember us in your prayers.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

My daughter was charged with a felony...Reckless Endangerment. We went to court and all charges were dismissed. No witnesses were called to testify. The Judge stated that the charges should not have been filed to begin with since there was no evidence that my daughter did anything to purposely harm the man. The police officer stated that he did not think she should have been charged.

The man's attorney told our attorney that they still plan to file a civil suit. I am waiting to be served any day now. My oldest daughter's insurance has stated that they WILL provide an attorney. They did mention some type of responsibility law in TN. If the injured is 51% or > responsible for the accident, then he can't recover any loss. I think someone mentioned this.

My daughter is paying us to cover her attorney fees. We are putting the money aside for her to use for college (she doesn't know that we are going to give it back when she goes to college.)

My main reason for posting this update was to show others the outcome so far and how the advise that I was given related to that outcome. As you can see from the previous posts, some people gave very accurate advice and stayed on the subject of giving legal advice (Stephenk's advice was very accurate). While others were giving an opinion and for some reason feel that if someone ask for legal advice they can call them names, criticize, and pass judgment. These types of people should just be ignored. These people thrive on putting people down and do not deserve to be acknowledged. I should have ignored those post. I let my emotions get in the way. I know that my daughters are intelligent young ladies who will make mistakes. I know that they have to aknowledge their mistakes and pay the consequences. If anyone thinks their children will not ever make a stupid mistake then they are in for a rude awakening! While I do agree that it was a stupid mistake I do not agree that this makes her stupid. There is a difference in being stupid and doing something stupid. You can read the previous threads and see where accurate advice was given and where it wasn’t. I do believe that most people that responded to my post were trying to help. I would like to say thank you to those people.

We still may have a civil suit to face. Please remember us in your prayers.

Thank You for the update.

You were given accurate advice by the members of this board who gave you advice as opposed to sympathy as one member did who's own daughter was involved in a serious criminal situation. This is a legal site, not a rant or support group, the warm fuzzies won't help you address the situation and you especially need to know how the prosecution or the opposing parties may view the same situation and what elements you have to prove. SO, yes, one seems to be judgemental when giving objective advice. Jetx as well as StephenK gave you accurate advice. It is necessary to be objective, it doesn't help you one iota to sugar coat it. Look back at my posts, nothing has changed. As parents we want the best for our children and support them as they learn from their mistakes, that doesn't mean that they should be sheltered from the consequences and unfortunately, that means that it may cost you financially as well since she is a minor.

You are very lucky that the charges were dismissed and that insurance will cover defense in a civil suit, apparently the legal theory of comparative damages came into play. Did the insurance cover his injury or not and that is why he is threatening to sue? While it is good that you are making her pay for the legal costs, I hope you are also not signing for her licnese if the judge didn't make some ruling to withhold it until majority. While this could be some inconvienence to you, she is not mature enough and this whole thing should be a lesson for all concerned. On the practical side, the cost of insurance will be high no matter whether or not the felony charges were dismissed. Please understand, no matter the reasons given for dismissal, you are taking what you want to hear because it is your daughter, but the fact remains that she needs to lern a lesson and it is not over by any means.

If you do set aside the money she pays you for legal costs and use it for college, don't tell her.

Thank you for adding your comments to the thread about the 3 yo girl, I updated that thread with the original thread in quotes, mom's story changes daily.

 

[OHNnurse]

Thanks rmet4nzkx for your comments.
I was given accurate advice by MOST members of this board. As you said this is not a rant board but I could not ever get anyone to understand what I was trying to say and that is frustrating! I only want to clear that up. legal advice is exactly what I asked for and that is all I wanted. I did not want anyone to comment on my daughter’s intelligence level. Calling her stupid is NOT legal advice! Everyone kept saying, “you got the advice and it was not what you wanted to hear”. The advice was not the problem, the judging and name calling was! I have noticed this same tone by certain posters on this board in other posts and it is not necessary. It leads no credence to their advice and only angers people. If I consulted an attorney and he said, "
ur daughter is a stupid idiot for doing that" I would say, "Thank you for your time" and walk out! Give the advice and leave the name calling for the playground!

I wanted to address some of the things you commented on or asked about.

Comparative law did not come into play with the charges being dismissed. The judge as well as the police officer said she should not have been charged. They said it was a misjudgment, a mistake and she did not mean to cause him any harm. Her case was the 10th case they had in 2004 of "car surfing"! All charges were dropped. She was VERY lucky. The insurance did not pay for anything. As far as I know nothing has ever been turned in to the insurance for them to pay! Amazingly my daughter's insurance will be no more expensive than her sister's.

My daughter will be getting her license in about 2 weeks. She just turned 18 so nobody has to sign for her. She had not gotten them before because she had not asked to get them or else she would have had them when this occurred. She made a mistake and learned a really big lesson. She is mature enough to get them. She went through a lot! I am not going to go into that but she has truly been through a lot. She gives us the money for the legal fees every time she gets paid. We never have to ask for it and she never complains about paying it. I think that is a sign of maturity. We do not plan to tell her about the money. We do not need the money and she will need it for collage in the fall.

I do appreciate you comments. Your post is proof that advice can be given without judgment and name calling! Thanks!

I hope the 3 yo. girl is not traumatized further by her mother's hysteria!