Unemployment and disability

[isis297]

What is the name of your state? NY

My husband just got approved for disability. His health has been declining for about 17 years now with it really amping up in 2018. He kept working though and luckily he had PTO and understanding bosses. In 2020, his department got laid off. There wasn't a need for them anymore so he went on unemployment. July 2021, his health significantly changed again. He finally accepted that he isn't going to get any better and went off unemployment. He applied for disability in November 2021 and put his disability start date as July 2021... when he stopped collecting unemployment.

His approval letter states he was disabled in October 2020. They've already paid the back pay and now I'm stressing because I don't know if it's a problem and we're going to have to pay back the unemployment benefits.

I tried calling social security but haven't been able to get through. The line just disconnects me. I was told by someone they would have checked that and taken money from the back pay if there was anything to pay back, but I don't like not knowing for sure. Somebody else said the rules were different during covid but they don't know what said rules were.

I figured I would ask here because you all have been a much appreciated wealth of knowledge in the past. Does anybody know how this works?

 

[Zigner]

He can set aside the amount of unemployment that covers the period in question so that he can pay the money back if they ever ask for it. Problem solved.

 

[isis297]

That would be more than he even received if they would want the unemployment plus any UC supplemental amounts. I would have rather they just back dated it to when we wrote down if that's the case if he'll end up paying more.

 

[adjusterjack]

His approval letter states he was disabled in October 2020.

I think that happens because there is some rule that you have to be disabled for a year before being eligible to apply and then they go back to when you actually became disabled. I don't know if I'm getting that exactly right. My sister went through the process and get a year's worth off back SSDI benefits.

I agree with Zigner. All you can do is put money aside in case UI wants anything back.

You certainly don't want to poke the bear by asking questions.

 

[LdiJ]

That would be more than he even received if they would want the unemployment plus any UC supplemental amounts. I would have rather they just back dated it to when we wrote down if that's the case if he'll end up paying more.

So, you are saying that the amount of disability back pay that he received (in total) is less than the amount of unemployment he collected from October 2020 until July 2021? If so, then I would suggest putting the entire amount of back pay that he received aside for a couple of years to see if anyone asks him to pay back the unemployment.

If you keep trying to find someone who can give you a flat yes or no on the issue right now, then you are potentially going to cause him to have to pay back the unemployment when otherwise he might not have to. In other words, you are rocking the boat when you probably should not be rocking the boat.

 

[commentator]

This is a fairly common situation. I do not know how the unemployment system in the state of New York is doing right now with recuperating from the incomprehensible overload situation they were forced into during the pandemic. Some are doing better than others, but eventually the date of disability and the fact that he was receiving unemployment insurance (must be able, available and actively seeking work) during some part of this time will cross match and he'll hear from the unemployment section. If you want to speed up the process, you could contact the unemployment system and get the ball rolling, or you can wait for them to contact you, no virtue implied either way, it will eventually be found out.

The social security system is the wrong entity to talk to. He was not overpaid social security, he was overpaid unemployment benefits. They would not be recouped from his social security disability, they'd be taken back by the unemployment system. Disabilty doesn't care whether you drew unemployment or not, but the unemployment system does care if you drew social security disability. The two programs are in direct conflict and you do not qualify for unemployment if you are disabled enough to qualify for social security.

When there is a collection done, it will be through the unemployment system, since unemployment insurance and disability cannot be legitimately drawn at the same time. And since filing for unemployment insurance was done prior to your approval for the disability, your filing for and receiving unemployment was with good faith, not with intention to defraud, not knowing if you were going to qualify for disability or not, you did not do anything wrong by filing and receiving benefits.

And it will be considered a non fraud overpayment, so please, do not go into that stupid panicking mode of " They're saying I'm a criminal, my God, I can't sleep at night, when are they coming to take me to jail?!" that happens sometimes when the department sends you a letter telling you that you were overpaid. They use extremely harsh, general statements such as "failure to respond to this notice can lead to severe criminal penalties......" and so forth. That's to make sure the claimant DOES respond, it is not directed at you personally and no you are not being abused and mistreated and going to be prosecuted criminally by the unemployment system. You do not need an attorney and you are not going to be charged criminally.

Many times when I was working in the u.i. system, we would have this situation, of a person who was laid off from their job, otherwise eligible to draw unemployment, able with a clear conscience to say they were able and available and actively seeking work but who had applied (or later applied) for Social Security disability. And then later were approved and back dated to a point where they had been drawing unemployment insurance. Yes, they always did have to pay that money back, eventually unless they qualified for a waiver based on their income, which we did have in my state (not sure about New York, if you think you may qualify, when they have set up your overpayment, you can ask about this) We usually, when sigining someone up who mentioned that they had applied for disability, which is always pretty much of a long term process, tell them that if they were backpaid disability in the future, the unemployment they had received would be considered an overpayment and would be recouped by the state unemployment system.

If you are financially stable enough to do so, I would consider this money from unemployment as a loan, and as something that yes, eventually, you'll have to pay it back. So you might want to sort of backlog it, keep it in savings, etc. Remember, don't over react, do work with them and try not to worry about this.

 

[isis297]

This is a fairly common situation. I do not know how the unemployment system in the state of New York is doing right now with recuperating from the incomprehensible overload situation they were forced into during the pandemic. Some are doing better than others, but eventually the date of disability and the fact that he was receiving unemployment insurance (must be able, available and actively seeking work) during some part of this time will cross match and he'll hear from the unemployment section. If you want to speed up the process, you could contact the unemployment system and get the ball rolling, or you can wait for them to contact you, no virtue implied either way, it will eventually be found out.

The social security system is the wrong entity to talk to. He was not overpaid social security, he was overpaid unemployment benefits. They would not be recouped from his social security disability, they'd be taken back by the unemployment system. Disabilty doesn't care whether you drew unemployment or not, but the unemployment system does care if you drew social security disability. The two programs are in direct conflict and you do not qualify for unemployment if you are disabled enough to qualify for social security.

When there is a collection done, it will be through the unemployment system, since unemployment insurance and disability cannot be legitimately drawn at the same time. And since filing for unemployment insurance was done prior to your approval for the disability, your filing for and receiving unemployment was with good faith, not with intention to defraud, not knowing if you were going to qualify for disability or not, you did not do anything wrong by filing and receiving benefits.

And it will be considered a non fraud overpayment, so please, do not go into that stupid panicking mode of " They're saying I'm a criminal, my God, I can't sleep at night, when are they coming to take me to jail?!" that happens sometimes when the department sends you a letter telling you that you were overpaid. They use extremely harsh, general statements such as "failure to respond to this notice can lead to severe criminal penalties......" and so forth. That's to make sure the claimant DOES respond, it is not directed at you personally and no you are not being abused and mistreated and going to be prosecuted criminally by the unemployment system. You do not need an attorney and you are not going to be charged criminally.

Many times when I was working in the u.i. system, we would have this situation, of a person who was laid off from their job, otherwise eligible to draw unemployment, able with a clear conscience to say they were able and available and actively seeking work but who had applied (or later applied) for Social Security disability. And then later were approved and back dated to a point where they had been drawing unemployment insurance. Yes, they always did have to pay that money back, eventually unless they qualified for a waiver based on their income, which we did have in my state (not sure about New York, if you think you may qualify, when they have set up your overpayment, you can ask about this) We usually, when sigining someone up who mentioned that they had applied for disability, which is always pretty much of a long term process, tell them that if they were backpaid disability in the future, the unemployment they had received would be considered an overpayment and would be recouped by the state unemployment system.

If you are financially stable enough to do so, I would consider this money from unemployment as a loan, and as something that yes, eventually, you'll have to pay it back. So you might want to sort of backlog it, keep it in savings, etc. Remember, don't over react, do work with them and try not to worry about this.

I appreciate it. Yes, I've been stressing. I'm an honest person. We've also been struggling so the thought of them coming back to us for repayment later is concerning. At the same time, again, we're struggling so we kind of need the back pay. *sigh*

Do they count each month? What I mean is, they found him disabled as of October 2020, but back pay didn't start until April 2021. So would we just owe April to June? And would it be the unemployment plus any extra covid help?

Like I think I mentioned before, this is why we put the start date on the application as being July 2021. We were being honest and not trying to overlap/ double collect. My husband truly wanted to keep working. It wasn't until then when his health took yet another plummet my husband had to accept that as much as he wanted to keep providing for us, he just couldn't anymore. I'm just not sure how it's right that this comes back on us when we weren't trying to dupe the system but SSA recognized my husband tried to work longer than he should have. They entered an earlier date...not us.

 

[commentator]

A very quick Google of "unemployment overpayment waivers in NY state" will tell you that they'll let you know how to apply for a waiver when you do receive the notice of overpayment. I would wait until I heard from them before I did anything else concerning this matter. Who knows what your circumstances may be by the time they get around to this?And when you do hear from them, as I said before, PLEASE do not over react to this by, for example, rushing out to borrow the total amount they say you are overpaid on a high interest credit card as one person I knew of did. They simply could not, as they stupidly kept insisting, stand the "threat of owing that money" over their head. As if they were being persecuted and were in real danger of going to debtors prison or something like that.

This is just the way things work. As I said, there was NO criminal intent on your part, this is not the civil or criminal court system accusing you of some wrongdoing, this is just an agency clearing their overpayment records. And you have not at any point in this process done anything you were not supposed to do. It would not be helpful to argue that you were not the ones who put the date of your husband's disability as what it was set at and so are not at fault. Things just work as they work. Qualified for disability = not qualified for unemployment benefits, regardless.

Okay, I cannot tell you "how they count each month" or how they much they might decide the overpayment comes to, as I cannot look at your husband's records. I cannot answer as to whether it's just the unemployment or includes the extra COVID help. If you keep calling the agency asking first one and then the other person (who are not in the particular depatment that deals with this anyway) that you get hold of about this presumed but not yet set up overpayment, you are in danger of getting hold of some unscrupulous turkey they have hired to work at the unemployment agency who will say, "Okay, you need to start sending money in right now on this phone card you purchase, to this place." And it turns out to be his private line. This actually happened to one overpaid person I dealt with. Be sure you only discuss this overpayment, when it happens, with the workers at the numbers provided by the overpayment unit, do not go into the system and start asking questions of random employees.

What you are trying to do, as in desperately figure out what to do, how much you might have to come up with, is sort of useless and will mess up many otherwise good hours of your life between now and the time they actually do contact you. And believe me, they are not used to dealing with people who can just shoot them a check for the total amount they've been overpaid. They do not expect that. Claimants were receiving this money in the first place because they were unemployed, right? And then your husband is going to be non qualified for unemployment, not because he suddenly got a wonderful new job, but because he was declared disabled to work at all.

The waivers of overpayment request very detailed information about the family income. In some cases, disability payments are not even considered as includable income. And if your income reflects little ability to repay, they will waive the overpayment, unless your hudband were to file for unemployment benefits again, which very likely will not happen. But in all, what I would do, what you need to do is, first of all, stop calling Social Security, as they are not the concerned party here. And next, try to put this out of your mind until it actually is addressed by the unemployment system, And then, realize that the unemployment system is not your enemy, that they are not accusing you of anything evil, and that they will work with you, either to waive the overpayment, set up a reasonable repayment plan, or some other solution.

 

[isis297]

A very quick Google of "unemployment overpayment waivers in NY state" will tell you that they'll let you know how to apply for a waiver when you do receive the notice of overpayment. I would wait until I heard from them before I did anything else concerning this matter. Who knows what your circumstances may be by the time they get around to this?And when you do hear from them, as I said before, PLEASE do not over react to this by, for example, rushing out to borrow the total amount they say you are overpaid on a high interest credit card as one person I knew of did. They simply could not, as they stupidly kept insisting, stand the "threat of owing that money" over their head. As if they were being persecuted and were in real danger of going to debtors prison or something like that.

This is just the way things work. As I said, there was NO criminal intent on your part, this is not the civil or criminal court system accusing you of some wrongdoing, this is just an agency clearing their overpayment records. And you have not at any point in this process done anything you were not supposed to do. It would not be helpful to argue that you were not the ones who put the date of your husband's disability as what it was set at and so are not at fault. Things just work as they work. Qualified for disability = not qualified for unemployment benefits, regardless.

Okay, I cannot tell you "how they count each month" or how they much they might decide the overpayment comes to, as I cannot look at your husband's records. I cannot answer as to whether it's just the unemployment or includes the extra COVID help. If you keep calling the agency asking first one and then the other person (who are not in the particular depatment that deals with this anyway) that you get hold of about this presumed but not yet set up overpayment, you are in danger of getting hold of some unscrupulous turkey they have hired to work at the unemployment agency who will say, "Okay, you need to start sending money in right now on this phone card you purchase, to this place." And it turns out to be his private line. This actually happened to one overpaid person I dealt with. Be sure you only discuss this overpayment, when it happens, with the workers at the numbers provided by the overpayment unit, do not go into the system and start asking questions of random employees.

What you are trying to do, as in desperately figure out what to do, how much you might have to come up with, is sort of useless and will mess up many otherwise good hours of your life between now and the time they actually do contact you. And believe me, they are not used to dealing with people who can just shoot them a check for the total amount they've been overpaid. They do not expect that. Claimants were receiving this money in the first place because they were unemployed, right? And then your husband is going to be non qualified for unemployment, not because he suddenly got a wonderful new job, but because he was declared disabled to work at all.

The waivers of overpayment request very detailed information about the family income. In some cases, disability payments are not even considered as includable income. And if your income reflects little ability to repay, they will waive the overpayment, unless your hudband were to file for unemployment benefits again, which very likely will not happen. But in all, what I would do, what you need to do is, first of all, stop calling Social Security, as they are not the concerned party here. And next, try to put this out of your mind until it actually is addressed by the unemployment system, And then, realize that the unemployment system is not your enemy, that they are not accusing you of anything evil, and that they will work with you, either to waive the overpayment, set up a reasonable repayment plan, or some other solution.

I truly cannot thank you enough. I didn't reach out to anybody after the other senior members discussed "not poking the bear", but your comments further put me at ease which is priceless. You are correct in that I have way too many things that actually do need my focus between trying to provide as I can financially, taking care of everything, and helping our children who despite not being super little, 2 have challenges of their own.

My husband has been my best friend for 27 years and everything is so different now. I don't have my partner in the sense I did. I miss it though obviously I'm thankful he's still here and a part of my life. I do everything I can to help him and take care of everything, so some things like not being able to pay the bills or worrying about something like this, can take on lives of their own.

Thank you for helping me to lessen the things that weigh on me. I will do as you say and just wait. It just helps to know that it won't be seen as we did something wrong or that we owe in one lump sum. Thank you for giving me knowledge and peace.