Unemployment Insurance - Defense of reason for termination

[My $0.02]

North Carolina.

Good morning, all.

I have a separate thread where I asked a question about the legality of time-shaving and my refusal to do it. Well, the result of that has been (I am 99% sure) that I have been terminated for refusing to falsify time cards in order to reduce overtime.

So, now that I've been terminated I have a question about unemployment insurance. When I asked why I was being terminated, the manager mumbled something about the home office being unhappy with the way I was doing invoices. My problem with that is, I had no control over "how" invoices were done. Without going into all the detail of how the system worked, I'll just say that there was really only one way to do the invoices, and that's how I did it. The only wiggle-room was exactly how much was going to be invoiced, and that wasn't my decision. Even if there could have been errors on my part, I received absolutely no feedback or complaints until I was terminated. I was never told I was doing anything wrong--in fact, I was consistently praised for the quality of my work. If they had chosen a more subjective reason for my termination I could understand, but this reason simply does not make sense. That--and the timing--is why I believe it's because I refused to submit payroll in violation of state law. But, for practical purposes, that part is beside the point. I've been terminated and the only thing I have to work with is the complaint about the invoicing.

The issue I'm trying to deal with now is the reason for termination which I must choose on the online application for UI. Unsatisfactory work is the official reason, but that seems to have raised some red flags in the UI system (for justifiable reasons, I know). Parts of the process aren't really clear, and I'm not sure when I go into all of the "I did my job to the best of my ability" thing that commentator recommends. Do I simply submit it as-is, wait to see if the company opposes my claim, and go into all of that at the hearing? Or, do I submit a document with the initial claim (there is a mechanism for submitting documents)? I want to do everything as correctly as I can from the beginning.

Thanks for your attention and any advice you can offer.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

I must choose on the online application for UI. Unsatisfactory work is the official reason, but that seems to have raised some red flags in the UI system (for justifiable reasons, I know).

What are the other choices?

 

[My $0.02]

Off the top of my head, there was "Layoff" and something about the company going out of business. I can't remember them all, but most of them were clearly terminable offenses such as fighting, workplace violence, and theft of company property. There were very few that basically meant it was through no fault of my own, and the one about not doing my work properly was the only one that fit.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Generally, you need to be answering the questions by why YOU think you were terminated, not what the employer told you was the reason.

 

[commentator]

I doubt if the claim will submit if you do not mark anything at all. But BE SURE you do not mark anything like "layoff" or "Company closing" which are untrue. I would say that if "performance" is anywhere indicated on the choices, that is what you need to mark, just on the simple check off. As I have frequently said, performance is the hardest of all subjective reasons for termination to document and prove.

Whatever they said, when the claim is handed to an adjudicator, you should have occasion to tell your side of the story before an initial decision is made on the claim. Of course they will be contacting the company, and getting their side of the story as well. The thing is, they'll ask very specific questions regarding the policy about the invoices, did you follow the correct procedures, did you know what the correct procedures were, etc. There will be questions about whether you were given any warnings or indications that your job was in danger? Did you discuss procedures for filling out invoices with the company before your termination? I did not know my job was in jeopardy. I did my job to the best of my abilities. I tried to work out any problems I was having with my supervisors.

The company may decide not to answer the initial inquiry, may simply ignore all this, especially since it involves dishonest practices on their part, and in that case, you are much more likely to be found the more believable of the two parties. The burden of proof that they had a valid misconduct reason for termination is upon the company in this case where they elected to let you go instead of your having quit. But you still must tell a cogent and believable story which the claims adjudicator can find believable, even if they do not respond. Unless they have given you a letter or separation notice saying "Layoff" that is not what you put on the claims form. Sometimes they do that when they simply want someone gone and don't have a really good reason. But if they didn't do that and you say they did, that would be fraud.

Get that initial filing done somehow, start the clock ticking. Don't worry too terribly much about exactly what your answers are, just listen to the questions you'll be asked, answer thoughtfully and simply and keep the suggested theme going as you tell your story quietly and without drama.

 

[My $0.02]

The problem with that is, I could only choose from a list of pre-populated options. There was no "Other" with a space for an explanation. To sum them all up, I had to choose from what was, basically: layoff, close of business, misconduct, criminal activity, or unsatisfactory performance. There is a "My Documents" section and I wonder if I should upload a short rebuttal. No whiny "it's not fair" stuff, just a short "This is why they told me I was fired, but I did my job to the best of my ability and was never told my performance was unsatisfactory". And I can't really say it's because of my refusal to falsify the payroll, I have no proof of that.

Edit: Posted before I saw your response, commentator. Thank you, that makes it a little more clear. Now the UI page is saying I have missing documentation but nowhere is there anything that says what that documentation is. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what! This is pretty frustrating. Well, wish me luck!

 

[My $0.02]

Ok, this is a really dumb question, I'm sure. But it's asking me "Was your last employer a temporary or staffing agency?" This employer in question is not. The employer I had before them was. When they say "last" employer which one do they mean?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

The last employer is the last place you were an employee of.

They ask that question for a reason that doesn't seem to apply to you. Answer "NO".

 

[commentator]

They're talking about your last employer, period. The one you were terminated from. Not your next to last, staffing agency employer. Say "no."

Performance is sounding like your best alternative. If the company gave you ANY kind of statement, letter, separation notice, written thing with a reason on it, that's definitely what needs to go in this spot.

As for "I can't really say it's because of my refusal to falsify the payroll because I have no proof of that......" Oh yes, you could do it, and that's what you need to do if it goes this far. You tell your story. You tell the truth. You aren't in a courtroom, nobody is going to jump up and yell, Objection, your honor, this person has NO PROOF that this happened! It's not slander or defamation if you tell the truth. You are simply telling why you believe you were terminated. You tell the human being who asks what happened if they asked you to falsify invoices and you refused. Don't enter it in the initial claim form. You really don't need to. They'll seek more information if they don't get any in this situation.

But it may be possible to keep this pretty simple. If you were terminated for performance, or simply based on something you were told, put down exactly what you were told at the time of termination. If it was something about not filling out the time cards right, you simply need to mark performance issues. In the statement part, forget a lot of that "did the job to the best of my ability" just say I was told I wasn't filling out the payroll.... would be sufficient. Or say nothing, don't lock yourself into anything yet.

 

[My $0.02]

I can't thank you all enough for your help. I may end up with more questions, but I promise I'm not going to ask you to hold my hand through the whole process. Have a good day, everyone.

 

[My $0.02]

Ta da! And there it is! For the benefit of anyone else in NC with this issue, it's been approximately 24 hours after I started the application and a link just appeared on the "My Homepage" tab which leads to a questionnaire. It's asking questions about whether I was warned verbally or in writing, the names and titles of anyone who might have met with me about my performance, etc. It's all "yes" or "no" questions so far, but it looks like this is where I get to give them more specific information relating to my personal situation.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

It is. When they process the original form, which as you have found is pretty limited they, send a specific form based on what you first told them. If you had informed them of another reason for termination they would have sent a different form.

They have also sent similar forms to the employer asking similar questions. When they compare the two they will be contacting both you and the employer if the stories don't match.

 

[commentator]

And in this one, as in all cases, try to keep it simple. Even if there's a place for you to go into greater detail, don't get carried away. There's a fairly good chance in this sort of situation that the employer won't respond at all to the unemployment system's inquiries about your termination. If they don't, and don't mount a defense about your poor performance, you will simply stick to your assertion that you were given no indication that you were not doing something correctly, you were given no complaints about your performance, that you always did the job to the best of your abilities, and you're likely going to be "one and done" when it comes to appeals.

BE SURE that during the time while the claim is being adjudicated, you file the weekly certifications for benefits as instructed. You will not be paid for any weeks for which you did not certify. And when filling out these weekly certs, you will be asked each time about "Did you quit or were you fired from a job?" To which you need to respond "No" because they only mean during this particular week you are certifying for, and are not referring to your separation employer. They're already working on that one.