Unemployment Overpayment Tango!

[Daylan]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NH

I live and work in NH. In 2008 I filed a claim agianst an employer, (Company 1), for unemployment benefits of which I received benefits from. Through an appeal that employer won his case against my claim and it was determined I received benefits I was not entitled to and had to now pay back in the amount of $822.00. I made a payment arragement with Department of Unemployment and began to pay back the monies. I did not dispute the judgement.

Later in 2009, I became unemployed again from ANOTHER company, (Company 2) due to their closing down and I filed for benefits against them of which I was determined to be eligible. I received 15 weeks of payments and made 15 payments out of those checks automatically through unemployment to repay the past amount I owed thus reducing the previous overpayment amount weekly.

In September, NH Unemployemnt went through some computer changes and it kicked back some errors with my account. It was discovered that when I filed my new claim with, (Company 2); they inadvertantly included monies I had earned from the previous company, (Company 1) in caluculating my eleigibility benefit amount for my claim with Company 2.

I had already been determined to not be eligible for any of those monies earned by Company 1 and had a payment arrangement in affect to pay them back! Now this means the benefit amount I was already determined eligible for with Company 2 was now calculated in error and they are telling me I am liable to pay them all monies back in total of an additional $885.00 over the original $822.00!! Can they do this to me? How is it my fault they miscalculated my benefits when they had a payment arrangement the whole time to pay back the benefits I wasn't eligible for? Why would it be my fault they pay me based on that ineligible income? How can I win this case against the State? I plan to appeal their decision obviously...

 

[commentator]

Are they saying your weekly benefit amount on this new claim should have been less than it was because there were wages used that should not have been used? Of course, if this is the case, it is in no way your fault. But can they do this to me? What would stop them?

Okay, you filed a claim in 2008. It was denied, and you were determined to be overpaid. That overpayment stayed on your records. You apparently began a payment program to pay back the $825, but did not get it payed off at that time, right?

In 2009, you applied again for unemployment. New claim, old one was over a year ago, and you set up a new one, based on the base period when it was field. That might very well have included some wages from that overpaid employer as it ordinarily would have included ALL covered wages in the base period, but they're saying that was done in error, those wages should never have been counted. Of course there was no way you would have known which wages should and should not have been counted by the state of NH system. The overpayment from 2008 still showed up on your records and had to be dealt with in the new claim.

You began receiving benefits at whatever weekly amount they told you, and you have been having money taken out from the benefits you've been receiving to pay off that $825 overpayment, is that right? Should have been reducing it right along as you were drawing. So it should be down to a small amount now, if not done away with entirely. So now they're telling you you're overpaid again? This time by more than the original overpayment? Because wages were used that should not have been used to set up the claim, but they have been paid to you and now they want them back.

So are they saying you should have been receiving less per week in this new claim than you were receiving, or that you were not eligible at all? Are you still supposed to have been receiving some money and now are continuing to file for weeks? If so, your weekly amount will be reduced until they get back this money from the system, as long as you keep filing for weeks, which of course you should keep doing as long as you are unemployed.

Since unemployment is not a needs based program, you have no right to demand that they provide you the weekly payments instead of using them to pay off the overpayments. They are not interested in your economic situation, so you can't complain or say they can't do it based on that reason.

You have paperwork that says that you have been overpaid again due to to the state system's error in calculating your benefits when you filed this claim? There should be phone numbers on this communication of people you can call. Appeal, appeal appeal. No one else can explain this thing to you but someone very familiar with the unemployment system and the overpayment or fraud unit in your particular state.

Apparently you have been determined overpaid again and for a larger amount for SOME reason. You can't say this should not be because you had the previous overpayment. The two situations are not really related. You at some point received the $825 back in 2008. You had to pay it back. You have received the $885 you are overpaid now. But you should have several appeals to this new overpayment. If nothing else, apply for a waiver, saying you are financially unable to pay the money back at the present time because DUH, you're unemployed. But as long as you are getting weekly benefits, they'll be getting the money back from you, until they determine that you were overpaid due to agency error and that since it was their fault, they won't be taking it back. Which isn't really too likely to happen, in my opinion.

Good luck, I hope you can get this straightened out. But do your talking and asking to someone within the state system, don't try to go outside and get anyone who is not a complete expert on this system to advise you. There are a lot of weird things going on in all the states due to some changes that came about due to the unemployment stimulus package money. If this is a system wide problem, the state should be taking steps to correct it at this time. You'll not be the only one who has been affected. Unfortunately, if you are overpaid due to agency error, the states usually do try to collect it anyway. Not fair, but it happens.

 

[Zigner]

This is a duplicate post (see https://forum.freeadvice.com/wage-salary-issues-96/unemployment-blunder-494177.html). Here was my reply there:

Let me nut-shell this one:

OP received unemployment benefits he was not entitled to. OP wants to know how he can avoid repaying said benefits.


OP - you owe the money.

 

[Daylan]

Wow, I thought I made it all pretty clear but your response confused EVEN ME, lol

I was paid benefits in 2008...after receiving them it was determined I was not eligible do to the nature of the separation from the Company, they disputed my claim and subsequently won their claim against me. At the time they won and my payments stopped I had been paid 822.00 in benefits.

Later in 2009 I filed for Unemployment again at which time I began a payment arrangement to pay back the state the 822.00 in weekly payments of 19.00 out of my checks for the new claim of which I AM ENTITLED TO COLLECT ON. For 15 weeks I had been collecting benefits and paying 19.00 each week out of that check towards the 822.00 which YES reduced the amount owed which is NOT the issue.

The issue is when I filed for benefits in 2009, they included some of the wages earned from the previous employer in 2008 of which I was denied, when calculating my benefit amount for the 2009 claim. That is my problem! Because of that error they paid me an additional 59.00 per week for 15 weeks totaling 885.00 in addition to the balance of the 822.00 still owed...GET IT?

Now, I know I am at fault for having to pay back monies I was determined not eligible for...but I should NOT have to pay back monies they paid me because they did not pay attention to their own records and paid me based on part of an income I was not entitled to use! That was not my fault, I did not give them the figures to use they determined that on their own when infact they should have blocked out those earnings that are not eligible entirely to prevent them from being used in any future claims within that claim period. Get it now? Could someone with knowledge of the laws regardng such contact me via a post here PLEASE...Thanks muches for all replies!

 

[commentator]

The only person you are going to find with a knowledge of your situation and of the New Hampshire unemployment system will be someone who works within that system. As I said, this is the only person you are needing to talk to.

If you are looking for someone who will tell you you can sue them, that you will not have to pay the money back, that there is a law will protect you if it is "not my fault" or a court you can argue this in, you're not going to find them.

I know enough to determine that you still have some of the original overpayment to pay back. This will be taken out of any subsequent unemployment you draw. Even if it's years from now.After you had received 15 weeks on the new claim, they determined that you had been receiving $59 too much each week. This new overpayment will likewise be taken out of any future unemployment you draw.

You did receive the extra benefits. You were paid that additional $59 a week because they used wages to set up the claim that they later determined were incorrectly used. You were never, at any point, entitled to this extra money. How you can think of it is that they gave you a loan.

When you file the appeal of this new overpayment you can use the term "agency error." Because that's what it was. That said, it probably won't change anything. You might win this appeal, but I doubt it. As I said, there is another kind of appeal, a waiver of payment, stating that you do not have the money to pay the overpayment back. But as long as you are receiving unemployment benefits they will get it back as you draw as they have done with the first overpayment.

As I said, if this is a system wide error, they may get around to fixing it. If they fix it, they MIGHT decide not to collect the overpayments from affected claimants. But I sincerely doubt it. Other than your appeal, you don't have a leg to stand on. You can't take the state to civil court for following its own laws and regulations because you disagree with their decisions.

 

[Daylan]

Thank you for your words. In response; I posted here in hopes of finding someone that is maybe a lawyer or has had previous experience in some way with a situation like this. I have common sense and I am aware of the obvious.

Naturally I still owe a balance on the original over payment! I stated clearly I had no dispute with that. Beyond that is needs no further mention. It was only mentioned in the first place for purposes of understanding there were ineligible wages involved.

As for the real issue, I am NOT trying to get away with anything I am not entitled to. I was told I was entitled to received a certain dollar amount on my eligible claim for 2009. It is their job to use correct funds in calculating what people are entitled to not ours. If I had ineligible funds which they clearly were aware of at the time, they should have blocked them out from being used in any future claims. IF I were to walk into Walmart and purchase something that was priced incorrectly...and 15 weeks later Walmart notices it was priced wrong, should they be able to come back to me and collect the difference?! NO. They made the mistake not me. I would have had no idea what the price should have been unless it were priced correctly as in this case.

When I was at Unemployment the Manager of that office actually stated to me and one of her employees helping me that if the State made the mistake at no fault of my own they are responsible not me and I would not be liable to pay that back. Now they change their minds and can't recall saying that. lol Social Security Law says that if they made a mistake such as this and it was due through no fault of the other part that the other party could not be held liable for thier mistake. And so....how am I liable in this situation?

I am looking for an educated response here, I can go ask my neighbor their opnion if I want just a common unknowldegeable opnion.

No offense, but can you let me know what your qualifications are? I would like to know if you say this because you are educated in some way on this subject as that would be important to me.

You try to make it sound like I am trying to keep something I knew was not mine to beign with. Hardly the case, I was told it was mine and given it as mine and therefore accepted it as mine. Being unemployed is hard enough but to have pay back monies I don't have that they should never have given me at the time is impossible and to charge me INTEREST on it as well!!! rediculos. If I wanted a loan I would have gone to a bank!

 

[cbg]

Commentator worked for over 30 years in the unemployment system. She knows what she is talking about. You wanted an informed opinion - you got one with her.

 

[Daylan]

Thank you, I was wondering where the perspective came from. Although I think she is inaccurate I appreciate her time in commenting.

 

[Daylan]

Correction Commentator,

You misunderstood I think, they knew prior to the 15 weeks that I was not entitled to any benefits drawn off of the salary earnings from the 2008 job. This was not decided AFTER I filed my new claim but prior to.

They did not pay me for 15 weeks the addiitonal 59.00 and then later decide I was not eligible for it. I was determined not eligible PRIOR to filing that new claim. This is how you stated it in your last post and I wanted to clarify. If it had been decided after they paid me the monies then of course I have no recourse and I would liable, I agree. However, it was already decided before I made the new claim that I was not eligible to have the prior earnings included in any subsequent benefit payments. The reason I owe the original 822.00 is because that decision came AFTER I received the monies but by the time a year later I filed my new claim in 2009, they were already aware and under a payment plan with me yet STILL they mistakenly included a part of the very earnings I was already paying them back on for having been paid out undeserving, if you will with the 2008 claim.

In short: 2008 = filed claim, collected benefits of 822.00...lost in an appeal and had to repay the 822.00.

2009 = filed new claim, made payment arrangement to pay back monies already determined I owed with the 822.00...recieved payments which never should have included ANY wages from prior claim I was denied and paying back. After 15 weeks they discovered their error and now want it back and are charging me interest to boot, lol

Does this make any difference? I'm not sure, but hope it does....

Thank you muches!

 

[Zigner]

You owe the money and will...eventually...have to pay it. You *might* be able to talk your way out of the interest...but don't hold your breath there.

You claim to have common sense, yet you are not showing it with your continued protestations.

 

[Daylan]

Wow, aren't you rude!

So, if I question something I think was not already understood and am trying to UNDERSTAND and make understood by further clarification and questioning, that means I have no common sense?
I think you need an examination of the definition of such sense and you just made NONE.

Keep your RUDE comments to yourself and stick to the questions and topic at hand. Make yourself LOOK more intelligent. I hope you do not teach kids on the side because without the ability to question...this world will fall apart in the IGNORANCE of your last comment to me!

 

[Zigner]

My prior post(s) are accurate. I'm sorry you don't realize it. If you can't understand, then print the thread out and carry it around with you. When you have free time, take it out of your pocket and read it again. Eventually, it might sink in...



You are welcome.

Wow, aren't you rude!

So, if I question something I think was not already understood and am trying to UNDERSTAND and make understood by further clarification and questioning, that means I have no common sense?
I think you need an examination of the definition of such sense and you just made NONE.

Keep your RUDE comments to yourself and stick to the questions and topic at hand. Make yourself LOOK more intelligent. I hope you do not teach kids on the side because without the ability to question...this world will fall apart in the IGNORANCE of your last comment to me!

 

[commentator]

I answered this as much as I could in a post elsewhere. I not only worked in unemployment I worked with overpayments and in fraud units some of the time. Each state will have some differences, but the principles are the same. I understand what happened to you. It was agency error that gave you the second overpayment. You have asked repeatedly if it is fair. No. Illegal? No to both.

Your best recourse would be to apply for a waiver of overpayment based on your economic situation.

That said, the state will mighty likely take the money back you received in error on the most recent claim. Why don't you hire an attorney spend lots of money and try to sue the state for taking this money back? Tell them your arguments about "if I bought something from Wal-mart...." Find an attoney who will do this. Argue away. Enjoy yourself.

 

[Daylan]

I appreciate your input, Commentator and thank you. As for the Senior Member..why don't you go get a sharp pair of scissors and run really fast with a lollypop in your mouth, trip and fall.

 

[cbg]

And you have the NERVE to complain about other people's rudeness?

For someone who expects expert advice, for free, from volunteers who are not getting paid a penny for the time they spend here, you're pretty darned picky about whose answers you will accept and how they are expected to talk to you.