unreasonable NCP

[Naturalmom]

What is the name of your state?NJ atty sent a parenting plan for final custody agreement this has been goin on 4 years now.... My requests are as follows EOW and every wednedsay dinner for ncp. vacation: currently 3 five day events Iam offering 2 seven non consecutive events during july and august he says NO . Iam seeking one seven day event during summer and another later during the year not to infringe upon either of our scheduled weekend his answere NO. phone contact : ncp is permitted to to call daily he averages three phone contacts a week but is also ordered that he initiate call while child is with him on saturday evenings and vaction time by order of judge now he refuses . In consent order draft i am requesting child is permitted to call either of us other then specified time if child desires he say NO. Access to personal items that come from our house NO. College split according to current % which incidently i carry the larger % he say NO. HOldiay time I offered permanent christmas with me and pickup noon christmas day til the 26th at 4 for NCP and fathers day weekend and mother days weekend child with that parent no makeup just straight forward holiday with what ever parent and child is with NO. Support of course is attmepting to be lowered but he will not provide the info required by court order to to interoggitores. I have offerd don't seek to visit support for three years if support remains the same I will pay for parochial school and daycare. NO ..... So the next step is a trial also you should know evaluator has recommended that I be given sole custody NCP and wife toooooo difficult to work out any kind of agreement since that court order is only for the CP parent to follow and not NCP to follow according to NCP.

 

[abstract99]

I can't even tell you what I just read. I don't even know what your question is. Please try to clean it up some.

 

[Naturalmom]

it was not a question at all it was merely a long statement, which others will have opinions on .

 

[abstract99]

it was not a question at all it was merely a long statement, which others will have opinions on .

Ok, It was still really hard to read.

 

[LdiJ]

it was not a question at all it was merely a long statement, which others will have opinions on .

Hon...you need to re-write it in a more logical format. I usually can understand and will respond to most posts...but your's threw me.

 

[Naturalmom]

ok atty sent NCP draft of consent order. This has been going on four years to get to some final resolution. the current order that we follow is ncp to have 3 five day vacation events . NCp is permitted to call once daily he averages three phone contacts a week and is also ordered to make call on his weekend on saturday evenings and vaction time to CP parent while child is with him. Holidays now are as followed the parent who has child that is where child has holiday with. Support has always been a bone of contention he feels he is over paying the current amount covers all possible expenses including day school. the break down is CP 57% NCP 43%.
ok here is the draft sent to NCP that he has said NO to everything....
family counselor , parent coordinator, two seven day vacation events instead of 3 five day events for him I asked for one seven day event in summer another in later part of year, neither vacation events should infringe upon the other parents weekend. No to college and his 43% of expenses . as for phone contact I asked that the child be permitted to call either of us while with the other parent if the child so desires above the already established times and days he said NO....... I asked that child be permitted to have access to her personal belongings that are brought from home he said NO. I asked that fathers day weekend and mothers day weekend be spent with the respected parent and no makeups if the weekend did not fall on the EOW schedule he said NO . I asked that that christmas eve be with cp and pick for ncp be at noon christmas day till th 26th with ncp returning child at 4 on the 26th he said NO. currently holidays are spendt straight forward EOW if child is with that parent that is where child spends holiday it works out to be pretty equal the break down and alot less jockeying for all invloved. So no there is no question invloved just stating how difficult NCP is being and if we go to trial which is where we are heading since he is being unreasonalbe and his lawyer has told him this hence why he is stating he is going pro'se the evalutaor has already recommended that I have sole legal and physical custody so what is the point of being uncooperative

 

[Phnx02]

ok atty sent NCP draft of consent order. This has been going on four years to get to some final resolution. the current order that we follow is ncp to have 3 five day vacation events . NCp is permitted to call once daily he averages three phone contacts a week and is also ordered to make call on his weekend on saturday evenings and vaction time to CP parent while child is with him. Holidays now are as followed the parent who has child that is where child has holiday with. Support has always been a bone of contention he feels he is over paying the current amount covers all possible expenses including day school. the break down is CP 57% NCP 43%.
ok here is the draft sent to NCP that he has said NO to everything....
family counselor , parent coordinator, two seven day vacation events instead of 3 five day events for him I asked for one seven day event in summer another in later part of year, neither vacation events should infringe upon the other parents weekend. No to college and his 43% of expenses . as for phone contact I asked that the child be permitted to call either of us while with the other parent if the child so desires above the already established times and days he said NO....... I asked that child be permitted to have access to her personal belongings that are brought from home he said NO. I asked that fathers day weekend and mothers day weekend be spent with the respected parent and no makeups if the weekend did not fall on the EOW schedule he said NO . I asked that that christmas eve be with cp and pick for ncp be at noon christmas day till th 26th with ncp returning child at 4 on the 26th he said NO. currently holidays are spendt straight forward EOW if child is with that parent that is where child spends holiday it works out to be pretty equal the break down and alot less jockeying for all invloved. So no there is no question invloved just stating how difficult NCP is being and if we go to trial which is where we are heading since he is being unreasonalbe and his lawyer has told him this hence why he is stating he is going pro'se the evalutaor has already recommended that I have sole legal and physical custody so what is the point of being uncooperative

You are both getting way too technical about things and are treating your poor child like a piece of property. No wonder you haven't been able to settle this in 4 years! It sounds like you both love your child very much and each want to spend as much time with her as possible.......and for this, you should be grateful and more accomodating. There are so many NCP's that don't give hardly a hoot about seeing their kids and you've got an ex that just wants equal, quality time. Your daughter is very lucky!

Him asking for 7 days of vacation time is not unreasonable. The 2 extra days would allow him to utilize weekend days for time off work to travel somewhere or just lessen the stress of having to exchange the child on a regular work day. Be forgiving about father's & mother's day visits. Whether or not the day falls on the EOW schedule, this is a special day for the child/parent and neither should not be allowed to spend this day together because of each of your own's selfishness. How would you feel if Mother's day fell on the weekend your ex is scheduled to have your daughter, but he refused to let you spend that day with your child? You'd be spending the day in bed with a box of kleenex!

It is only fair for both parents to want to spend Christmas day....the whole day.....with the child. More than likely, both of you will be spending the day with family and friends and it's senseless to distrupt everyone's day to hand the child off to the other at noon. Take turns every other year. In fact, most standard visitation schedules are set up this way. The CP gets the child from X-mas eve to the evening of the 26th in even years, and the NCP gets the same in odd years (or vice versa). It's not fair that you demand YOU always have the child every single year during the most special hours of Christams - X-mas eve and the next morning......the 2 times when most people open presents....and he never have the same priviledge.

The child should be allowed to call the other parent any time she feels the desire when away from the other. It is so stupid to limit this kind of contact according to a piece of paper! Is your kid in jail? That's how your treating this whole thing! If you two don't let loose and compromise more, your poor daughter is going to end up holding alot of serious resentments agaisnt both of you. You wanted opinions, you got it.

 

[stealth2]

Well, your second attempt was only marginally better than the first, to be honest. But I'll make a stab at it as I do like to help out my fellow Garden Staters....

And I'm afraid that you're not going to like my comments a great deal. Both of you are being unreasonable.

Right now he has three weeks of summer vacation - your proposal cuts that down to one. Granted, you offer him another week sometime during the year, but that really is incredibly stingy considering you have the child the majority of the time. To give you an idea of where it COULD end up, your child could be going to Dad's the Friday after school ends until the Friday before it startsa and YOU would get a week in July and a week in August. So you may want to be a bit more generous with time.

In addition, school breaks are often split. The kids get a fair number of days off school, when you include long weekends and Christmas/Winter/Spring breaks - those are normally shared by the parents. Either have of each to each, or rotated on a yearly basis.

Which brings us to holidays. With the exception of Father's and Mother's Day (which traditionally go to the respective parent), holidays tend to be shared EQUALLY between the parents. Now, it's possible that the EOW works for y'all at doing that and if both of you are satisfied with it, that's fine. I do think your getting every Christmas Eve & morning a bit unfair - especially if he also doesn't get the rest of the Christmas break. I'm sure if you put yourself in his shoes, you'd agree.

Phone calls. Yes, both of you should have reasonable phone access, and the child should not be restricted from calling when she chooses to do so. A judge will most likely grant you this, as well as a specified time/day when the child must be available and/or the call returned within 24 hours in case of an unforeseen event (stuff happens). However, expect that this provision will apply to BOTH of you. You would also have to make the child available at specific times. And..... why does Dad have to be the one to make all the calls? (I can understand if he has objections to your calling his home - we have similar issues. )

Your daughter's stuff... Yep, she should have access to stuff from home. Realistically, it ain't gonna happen. He can be ordered to allow her to bring stuff with her, but no judge is going to be able to enforce that he allow her to use whatever it is in his home. My kids learned the hard way that they take only what is necessary (homework and somethiong to do/read on the plane). Even homework used to be an issue until the judge ordered Dad to ensure homework was done during his time. You don't say how old she is, but she's got to be going on at least 5 if you've been working on a custody order for 4 years. While it may take her a bit of adjustment, she's not going to die without the lovey she's used to (and if she carries on, Dad may give in on something like that), or other personal items for a couple of days.

Basically, what it comes down to is that you're also going to have to give some. While you may be the CP, you don't get to make all the rules - Dad has input as well. And you can expect that a judge will give him some of what he's asking for as long as he's not a provable danger to the child.

Where in NJ are you?

 

[stealth2]

The child should be allowed to call the other parent any time she feels the desire when away from the other. It is so stupid to limit this kind of contact according to a piece of paper! Is your kid in jail? That's how your treating this whole thing! If you two don't let loose and compromise more, your poor daughter is going to end up holding alot of serious resentments agaisnt both of you. You wanted opinions, you got it.

Unfortunately, sometimes court intervention IS required on this sort of thing. My ex would routinely refuse to answer the phone, leave the answering machine switched off, not give the kids messages that I'd called. Snail mail sent would be returned unopened. Email would be blocked. To call me, the kids would have to either get up early in the am and call before their father woke up, or (this one was my personal favorite as it showed some real resourcefulness) call from a neighbors' (of course, it would have been preferable if they'd ask permission first!). All of which was documented via email.

At that point, I asked the judge to intervene and order him to provide access. So we have a mandatory phone time every week, and I provided them with a prepaid cell so they could call me when they like. It's unfortunate, but sometimes it's necessary.

 

[Naturalmom]

I have read your replies to this point and will clafiry somethings. Father has 3 five day vacation events not seven days, judge decision. I have offered him 2 seven day events he says no. Phone contact: because he refuses to return calls or make child available judge ordered that. Also has told child she is NOT allowed to call home , not many 5 year olds will stand up to parent but it is comming . Personal belongings: she has to "ask for them" if she wants them according to father which she does and is told NO. Holdiays there should be some form of stability and less jockeying and my offer about christmas would provide this escpecailly it is more then just opening presents , your are forgetting the religious aspect of that which father refuses her religious education etc. THere is no problem when he has all of chrismas holiday days and new years days or any other holdiay I deal with it but if the shoe is on the other foot then he goes into a tirade. The father takes child not out of love for her but to hurt me , which he has stated to evalutor . So when I should be glad she spends time with Dad should I also be glad of the education she gets of foul comments they refer to me infront of her or other antagonistic things they do which my daughter recognizes because as she has stated dad says or SM says "I do it on purpose to make your mom mad" which thankfully I don't react to . I have offered compromise through out all of this and have been bet with full opposite. THere still is a restaining order because of the nonsense father pulls and the "powers that be" recognise he and all his false charges and harressment etc.

 

[LdiJ]

I realize that these parenting time guidelines are not for your state....however it would probably do you some good to read them. It will give you a better idea of what is considered to be normal and appropriate.

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/rules/parenting/

 

[Naturalmom]

also one general question : has anyone ever asked their children or maybe older kids how they liked being jockeyed back and forth because the "ordered said so" . Replying with it is not up to them because they are children is not what Iam asking? how strong is thier relationship with the parent that was always playing the head games. In an accromonious break up there is always one difficult person, the kids know it and many of which that I have asked that are adults now have no desire to have any contact with that adult .

 

[stealth2]

PLEASE USE PARAGRAPHS! Proper capitalization would help, too. Your posts are very difficult to read. Thank you.

 

[Naturalmom]

interesting reading on the guidelines of indiana. thanks

 

[Phnx02]

I have read your replies to this point and will clafiry somethings. Father has 3 five day vacation events not seven days, judge decision. I have offered him 2 seven day events he says no. Phone contact: because he refuses to return calls or make child available judge ordered that. Also has told child she is NOT allowed to call home , not many 5 year olds will stand up to parent but it is comming . Personal belongings: she has to "ask for them" if she wants them according to father which she does and is told NO. Holdiays there should be some form of stability and less jockeying and my offer about christmas would provide this escpecailly it is more then just opening presents , your are forgetting the religious aspect of that which father refuses her religious education etc. THere is no problem when he has all of chrismas holiday days and new years days or any other holdiay I deal with it but if the shoe is on the other foot then he goes into a tirade. The father takes child not out of love for her but to hurt me , which he has stated to evalutor . So when I should be glad she spends time with Dad should I also be glad of the education she gets of foul comments they refer to me infront of her or other antagonistic things they do which my daughter recognizes because as she has stated dad says or SM says "I do it on purpose to make your mom mad" which thankfully I don't react to . I have offered compromise through out all of this and have been bet with full opposite. THere still is a restaining order because of the nonsense father pulls and the "powers that be" recognise he and all his false charges and harressment etc.

You are still being selfish about Christmas. The father should get this special time with his daughter too....religious reasons or not.