Visitation beyond the parenting plan, with DV involved

[JeNePensePas]

What is the name of your state? CA


Thank you for providing a resource that allows people to ask the questions and get the information to be well-prepared for attorney meet ups. I have a series of questions about visitation at different time periods, now and when things change in the future.

State: CA

NCP is a non-US citizen and has returned home abroad. There is a current DV case open. CP has full physical & legal custody in the US (permanent order); NCP has visitation in the form of video calls.

NCP would like more time, more calls, future visits, etc. Long term, it is in child’s best interests to have a good relationship with an interested parent. However, the DV case is not yet settled. How does a CP foster the best possible relationship between NCP/child and yet also not risk the DV case being undermined by extra time beyond stated CO.

Divorce is such an emotional journey, it’s difficult to know the right thing to do. An example, if NCP were to plan a trip to the US and wish to see child, CP's attorney's brief reply about visitation was, "NCP gets the video calls." That feels wrong, if NCP is willing to come all the way to the US, then wouldn't it be healthy for NCP and child to have some time together, supervised?

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state? CA


Thank you for providing a resource that allows people to ask the questions and get the information to be well-prepared for attorney meet ups. I have a series of questions about visitation at different time periods, now and when things change in the future.

State: CA

NCP is a non-US citizen and has returned home abroad. There is a current DV case open. Current situation: CP has full physical & legal custody in the US (permanent order); NCP has visitation in the form of video calls.

NCP would like more time, more calls, future visits, etc. Long term, it is in child’s best interests to have a good relationship with an interested parent. However, the DV case is not yet settled, none of the classes etc. required in the custody order have been completed, yet.

How does a CP foster the best possible relationship between NCP/child and yet also not risk the DV case being undermined by extra calls beyond stated CO. How does a CP not set a precedent that allows a NCP to be then be permanently granted more time in a new court order given that extras were allowed.

Divorce is such an emotional journey, it’s difficult to know the right thing to do. An example, if NCP were to plan a trip to the US and wish to see child, CP's attorney's brief reply about visitation was, "NCP gets the video calls." That feels wrong, if NCP is willing to come all the way to the US, then wouldn't it be healthy for NCP and child to have some time together, supervised? But then is that opening the door, legally, to give rights that could later not be rescinded if NCP does not do the work to improve the volatility/anger issues?

Once all DV legal issues are resolved, does that case have any bearing on future visitation set ups or if one’s paid their dues, would it be normal that visitation revert to something more?

A child deserves to have the best possible relationship with a NCP, but there are valid concerns about a child being exposed to emotional abuse, etc.

What is a reasonable expectation to see in terms of visitations granted to parents living abroad, by choice? At what age might the child be expected to fly abroad?

How old is the child? Where abroad does the NCP live? That matters. Is the child in counseling? Is the CP in counseling?

 

[JeNePensePas]

How old is the child? Preschool
Where abroad does the NCP live? Europe (Hague country)
Is the child in counseling?no, too young?
Is the CP in counseling?yes

 

[Ohiogal]

How old is the child? Preschool
Where abroad does the NCP live? Europe (Hague country)
Is the child in counseling?no, too young?
Is the CP in counseling?yes

Child is not too young for counseling. Let's start with that. How is the child going to be harmed by video chatting with the other parent? What does the court order state re video chatting?
Is the CP going to fly to pick up the child?

 

[JeNePensePas]

The court order proscribes certain days for certain amounts of time for video chats.

If NCP may, from time to time, return to the US for other purposes and would like to see the child. If allowed that time beyond the CO, is some precedent being set?

What type of counseling is recommended for preschoolers? Is that play therapy?

 

[adjusterjack]

You'll have to give us some perspective.

DV can range anywhere from a one-time slap to frequent beat-downs with a blunt object.

What did he do, when, and how often?

That could have a bearing on any risk of visitation.

 

[JeNePensePas]

More than one physical incident, over a couple of years, but not frequent beat downs with objects.

 

[adjusterjack]

How often are his video visits with the child? How long are the visits? How does he comport himself with the child? Is the child happy to have those video visits?

 

[not2cleverRed]

Harmed by video chatting? I don’t think it’s harmful, but have noticed the legal world is not always based on common sense so want to be sure the DV case is not damaged by giving extra time pre-trial.

The court order proscribes certain days for certain amounts of time for video chats.

NCP may, from time to time, return to the US for other purposes and would like to see the child. If allowed that time beyond the CO, is some precedent being set?

If NCP takes the DV seriously and does all the work to get to a better emotional place then more visitation could work out well. The concern is if offering it now could be used to dilute the DV case seriousness and/or could that extra time be used to change the parenting time CO even if the work doesn’t end up being done and NCP is not in a better place, say a year or two for now.

What type of counseling is recommended for preschoolers? Is that play therapy?

You follow the court order.

Following the court order will not be held against you. Giving extra time beyond the court order undermines any argument that contact should have the court ordered limits.

One of the issues with DV is poor boundaries. DV victims stay in bad relationships because of those poor boundaries. They find ways of forgiving bad behavior. There is a court ORDER, not a court suggestion. The CP is not being petty by sticking to the court order.

Who are YOU in this situation?

Are you the CP, or are you some "helpful" person?

 

[not2cleverRed]

Divorce is such an emotional journey, it’s difficult to know the right thing to do. An example, if NCP were to plan a trip to the US and wish to see child, CP's attorney's brief reply about visitation was, "NCP gets the video calls." That feels wrong, if NCP is willing to come all the way to the US, then wouldn't it be healthy for NCP and child to have some time together, supervised? But then is that opening the door, legally, to give rights that could later not be rescinded if NCP does not do the work to improve the volatility/anger issues?

It is NOT wrong.

The CP has a lawyer. The CP's lawyer's advice is based on the lawyer's knowledge of the case. The CP's lawyer's LEGAL advice to abide by the court order should be heeded.

The NCP has had an opportunity to move beyond video calls, by going through the LEGAL process to change the court order. It sounds like there are some legal hoops that are part of the current agreement, and that the NCP has not met those conditions. That is the NCP'S choice.

Again, if you are the CP, then you need more time in therapy, and develop healthy boundaries.

If you are NOT the CP, then BUTT OUT. (I am saying this, because I can easily imagine certain relatives of mine saying similar things during my divorce.)

 

[JeNePensePas]

@not2cleverRed you are exactly correct that boundaries have been/are a struggle for me in this situation.

 

[Just Blue]

@not2cleverRed you are exactly correct that boundaries have been/are a struggle for me in this situation.

Who are you in this situation?

 

[JeNePensePas]

CP.
I have read many emotional posts, on this and other forums, and seen some other posters bicker about who is Mom or Dad focused, I tried to keep my posts unemotional and neutral to not inadvertently cause any distracting reactions.

 

[LdiJ]

CP.
I have read many emotional posts, on this and other forums, and seen some other posters bicker about who is Mom or Dad focused, I tried to keep my posts unemotional and neutral to not inadvertently cause any distracting reactions.

By doing that, you cause yourself to not receive the best advice that you can receive. We would give different advice, for example, to a grandparent than we would give to the abused other parent.

Bottom line however, is that there is nothing wrong with following the court orders, and in DV cases it is wise to stick to the letter of the orders until or unless you are able to set proper boundaries and stick to them. An abuser needs to control their victim. If they can no longer control them physically, they will push hard to control them emotionally.

And don't kid yourself, the odds of dad ever coming back to the states is slim. He moved back to his home country to avoid the consequences of the DV. What he will do is attempt to pressure you into letting the children visit him, in his home country, and then, Hague Convention or not, you will go through holy heck to get them back.

 

[stealth2]

What did he do, when, and how often?

And was it towards the child?