Visitation Pick Ups

[Stacey3569]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Louisiana

We have a visitation agreement filed with the court that states my ex is to pick our children up by 5p at my residence or school/summer camp on Friday and drop them back off to me or to school by 8a Monday, on his visitation weekends. For the past 4 months or so, he has been telling me that I can either drop them off at his house (where his girlfriend is sometimes home or the kids will be home by themselves until someone gets home), or I can wait around until 10p when he can pick them up because he has "business" to do. At first I did not mind dropping the kids off, if the girlfriend was home, but they have since moved about 1/2 hour away. I might also add that he does not tell me any of this until it is 5p and I ask my son "is your dad coming to get you?" and he'll call his dad who gives the same story. Not trying to be selfish but sometimes I DO have plans made for those Friday nights that I have to cancel because I either have to wait around for someone to show up at his house before I can drop the kids off, or I have to wait around til he decides to show up to pick up the kids.

Since it's in the visitation agreement as to what his responsibilities are, what are my options for enforcing that? I have heard that even if a visitation agreement is in place, the courts can not force a non-domiciliary parent to visit their children. Is that true? Do I have to continue to be my ex's taxi service because he can't schedule his "business" appointments around his scheduled visitation with his kids? (and he has his own business, so he is the one who makes his schedules)

 

[Stacey3569]

I forgot to add - it states in the agreement that "visitation is waived if respondent or the person designated by respondent..., fails to appear to pick up the child within 30 minutes after the time specified for the beginning of that period of visitation. Days of visitation missed because of respondent's illness or failure to appear shall be made up only at Petitioner's discretion"

So can I say "if you or your girlfriend doesn't get the kids from my house by 5:30, you forfeit your Friday night with them"? And then I can legally not have to give him "make up" time for that time?

Thanks

 

[mistoffolees]

I forgot to add - it states in the agreement that "visitation is waived if respondent or the person designated by respondent..., fails to appear to pick up the child within 30 minutes after the time specified for the beginning of that period of visitation. Days of visitation missed because of respondent's illness or failure to appear shall be made up only at Petitioner's discretion"

So can I say "if you or your girlfriend doesn't get the kids from my house by 5:30, you forfeit your Friday night with them"? And then I can legally not have to give him "make up" time for that time?

Yes and yes.

Although I wouldn't recommend it. Your child is going to be far better off if the two of you can find a way to make visitation practical rather than looking for excuses to deny visitation.

Would it really kill you to stick around to 10:30?

 

[Proserpina]

I forgot to add - it states in the agreement that "visitation is waived if respondent or the person designated by respondent..., fails to appear to pick up the child within 30 minutes after the time specified for the beginning of that period of visitation. Days of visitation missed because of respondent's illness or failure to appear shall be made up only at Petitioner's discretion"

So can I say "if you or your girlfriend doesn't get the kids from my house by 5:30, you forfeit your Friday night with them"? And then I can legally not have to give him "make up" time for that time?

Thanks

Please stop having YOUR CHILD make those phone calls.

That's NOT fair.

But to answer your questions - yes, you can say "if you don't get the kids by this time, you forfeit per our court order".

And the way your order is worded, you don't have to offer any make up time.

 

[Stacey3569]

Please stop having YOUR CHILD make those phone calls.

That's NOT fair.

But to answer your questions - yes, you can say "if you don't get the kids by this time, you forfeit per our court order".

And the way your order is worded, you don't have to offer any make up time.

The only reason my son calls him is because the ex refuses to speak to me on the phone and ignores texts / emails. It's a control thing with him, just like his telling me "you can either drop them off to me, or wait til 10" He has never been able to "co parent" and it really is a shame because he wastes more time trying to spite me then anything else. When I had heart surgery last year, he told me that I had to "make up" the "extra time" he had to spend with his kids while I was in the hospital for 2 days, and when I got out, I wasn't home 2 hours before he dropped the kids back off to me (while I was laid up on bedrest).

Mistoffolees - no it wouldn't kill me to wait til 10, but when it's EVERY visitation weekend, it gets to be a bit much, more like he's taking advantage of the situation somehow.

 

[stealth2]

I'd offer to him to pick the kids up the following morning.

 

[Silverplum]

The only reason my son calls him is because the ex refuses to speak to me on the phone and ignores texts / emails.

You're still putting your child in the middle. Stop it. Figure out another way of communication, or end communication, but leave the kid out of it.

 

[mistoffolees]

Mistoffolees - no it wouldn't kill me to wait til 10, but when it's EVERY visitation weekend, it gets to be a bit much, more like he's taking advantage of the situation somehow.

Or maybe it's just what he said - he has a job and can't arrange for an earlier pickup.

My ex is constantly leaving our child with me for extra evenings and nights. I consider it a pleasure to have the extra time.

Please do your child a favor and put the child first for a change.

 

[gam]

You're still putting your child in the middle. Stop it. Figure out another way of communication, or end communication, but leave the kid out of it.

I agree, your only required to wait the 30 minutes. I still personally would then make that back up call myself. So what if he does not answer, leave a message, about him not showing on time. Leave the kid out of it.

See if the parent will change pick up time to 10pm or to Sat morning. That way you and the children are not sitting around waiting. When asking the other parent, leave out the part about you missing out on your plans. You might get farther if you don't complain about yourself, often works with some who are being difficult.

 

[stealth2]

And make personal plans for Saturday evening.

 

[Antigone*]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Louisiana

We have a visitation agreement filed with the court that states my ex is to pick our children up by 5p at my residence or school/summer camp on Friday and drop them back off to me or to school by 8a Monday, on his visitation weekends. For the past 4 months or so, he has been telling me that I can either drop them off at his house (where his girlfriend is sometimes home or the kids will be home by themselves until someone gets home), or I can wait around until 10p when he can pick them up because he has "business" to do. At first I did not mind dropping the kids off, if the girlfriend was home, but they have since moved about 1/2 hour away. I might also add that he does not tell me any of this until it is 5p and I ask my son "is your dad coming to get you?" and he'll call his dad who gives the same story. Not trying to be selfish but sometimes I DO have plans made for those Friday nights that I have to cancel because I either have to wait around for someone to show up at his house before I can drop the kids off, or I have to wait around til he decides to show up to pick up the kids.

Since it's in the visitation agreement as to what his responsibilities are, what are my options for enforcing that? I have heard that even if a visitation agreement is in place, the courts can not force a non-domiciliary parent to visit their children. Is that true? Do I have to continue to be my ex's taxi service because he can't schedule his "business" appointments around his scheduled visitation with his kids? (and he has his own business, so he is the one who makes his schedules)

Your order is very specific and while I am all for dad seeing his son, this is a legal advice website. I'd say if dad does not comply by the terms of the order, you are under no obligation to go above and beyond. If dad wants to spend time with his son, then he'll make it when ordered, petition to have the order changed, or learn how to deal with you.

 

[Stacey3569]

Or maybe it's just what he said - he has a job and can't arrange for an earlier pickup.

My ex is constantly leaving our child with me for extra evenings and nights. I consider it a pleasure to have the extra time.

Please do your child a favor and put the child first for a change.

Unfortunately the ex's "job" is an MLM company, and he makes his own schedule. He schedules plenty of free time for himself when he doesn't have the kids, but manages to schedule his "parties" on his designated visitation weekends.

And I didn't mean the first post to sound selfish, I was merely trying to say that I sometimes make plans in advance on the weekends I don't have the kids, and they are easily cancelled when necessary. I don't complain about it.

The communication issue is what it is. On the rare occasions we have "talked" (and that's through email), he tries to start fights, so I try to remain as neutral and let it go. When I do text to ask if he is picking the kids up or not, he never responds. I guess the best thing to do is what you all have suggested, let the 30 minutes go by and leave him a message.

But my question remains, since it's in the visitation agreement, is it enforceable? Like I said, I heard that the court really can't enforce visitation issues even with an agreement in place.

Thanks.

 

[mistoffolees]

But my question remains, since it's in the visitation agreement, is it enforceable? Like I said, I heard that the court really can't enforce visitation issues even with an agreement in place.

Thanks.

As you were told (at least twice), you can enforce what the decree says.

You can NOT force NCP to take his permitted visitation. And if you keep pushing, you may simply get things to the point where the kid doesn't get his time with Dad at all. And that would be very bad for the kid.

 

[Isis1]

my suggestion (if i wanted to go out bad enough) i'd hire a sitter or have a friend come hang out with the kids. if dad shows up, the sitter/friend lets the kids out the door.

 

[Stacey3569]

my suggestion (if i wanted to go out bad enough) i'd hire a sitter or have a friend come hang out with the kids. if dad shows up, the sitter/friend lets the kids out the door.

I think the point is being missed here, but that is most likely because you don't have the full picture of what kind of person the ex actually is. I am not worried about "going out". But I will say that the ex has been a very emotionally abusive, controlling person, and continues to try to exert that control even though we are divorced. He is emotionally abusive to the kids, telling them they are fat and stupid, etc - but that has nothing to do with this topic.

I can guarantee that if I DID tell him "you forfeit your visitation" he'd say "so what?" He really doesn't care about seeing the children - he does nothing with them when he has them. He does not care about the kids, takes no interest in their lives and basically continues to see them so that he will look good to his friends (it's all about appearances with him). The actual parenting of the children is left up to me and my current husband.

So I guess the end decision is, since it's up to my discretion according to the agreement, that I can say "sorry, you aren't getting the kids tonight (friday if he's not on time). You can pick them up Saturday morning by 10a". And this would hold up in court, correct?