Visitation Suggestions

[LdiJ]

A scheduling issue which results in a very late dinner will not change the timing problem. Let OP post the reason dad says midweek dinners are a problem and the children's school schedules.

There are a lot of schdules that are a problem like being on call limits 48 hour notice. He might work 3 to midnight shift. He might be in a position where he has to step in to cover a class when a colleague is ill. He might have to travel for business. These are several that affect my family

On a legal basis however, all of that is immaterial. Mom is not required to give dad extra weekends to make up for the fact that he is not exercising his weekday time. Part of parenting is to deal with both the busy weekdays and the down time on the weekends. Its not fair to the children for one parent to get more of the down time than the other. On top of that, it appears that dad does not accommodate the children's social lives on his weekends, therefore their social lives are crammed into mom's weekends as well which is another reason why its not fair to the children.

What is fair to the children is far more important than what is fair to either parent.

 

[Ohiogal]

On a legal basis however, all of that is immaterial. Mom is not required to give dad extra weekends to make up for the fact that he is not exercising his weekday time. Part of parenting is to deal with both the busy weekdays and the down time on the weekends. Its not fair to the children for one parent to get more of the down time than the other. On top of that, it appears that dad does not accommodate the children's social lives on his weekends, therefore their social lives are crammed into mom's weekends as well which is another reason why its not fair to the children.

What is fair to the children is far more important than what is fair to either parent.

Did mom discuss signing the child up for dance/cheer that might interfere with dad's time? Or did she just go ahead and do it? Does she care if it impacts dad's time? How far away does dad live from mom and the children? What are his work hours? What are mom's work hours?

 

[t74]

A partial solution is to make what is a typical EOW of 2 nights to EOW of three nights (Fri pm tho Mon am).

Is the relationship between mom and dad cordial enough that they can be at the same event. Could they sit together at a dance recital?

The "have" to go to dad's is very telling in Mom's attitude. Both need an attitude adjustment for the best interest of the kids. Mom' really needs to want the kids to have a relationship with their dad. Her post have the overtone tone that he is an intruder in their lives. Rather than the 48 hour notice ir should be mom suddenly having something to do one evening and calling dad to ask if he would like to have the kids for dinner that night

 

[not2cleverRed]

Perhaps, since Dad has finally admitted that the current court order is unworkable with his schedule, they should go back to court for mediation or, if nothing can be agreed upon, a judge can sort it out.

Legally, Mom is only obligated to go by the current court order. She can choose to allow him make up time with less than 48 hours notice, to occur within a week, but since the court order says 48 hours notice, she does not even have to do that. There seems to be nothing in the court order regarding accumulating make-up time, so weekends not specified in the court order as regular weekends for Dad need not be given over to Dad as accumulated makeup time for a series of missed Tuesdays.

I come from this from a different perspective than t74. I have a difficult ex. We do not "sit together at a dance recital". If we were "amicable", we'd still be together; there's a reason we are divorced. Even green reeds can only bend so far before being flattened.

My ex rarely goes by the court order at this point. Actually, because he chose to move halfway across the country, the original long distance plan is unworkable. Even for the portions requiring advanced notice - such as summer visitation - he rarely gives anywhere close to the amount of notice that he is supposed to. As in, last month I received 15 minutes notice. My take, in such situations, is to let him have what was reasonably convenient, let him know what has been scheduled, and work it out from there: taking the kid for the evening was fine, but breakfast was out because she had a morning dance performance, and he's no good at helping with the hair and makeup.

Ideally parents work together and try to encourage their children's interests. However, it is possible that one parent has no interest in working with the other, and has no interest in the child other than as an object, a play thing to possess occasionally and call it parenting time. In such cases, there is no co-parenting, there is not even parallel-parenting, because one of the parents is just clocking time.

 

[t74]

Perhaps, since Dad has finally admitted that the current court order is unworkable with his schedule, they should go back to court for mediation or, if nothing can be agreed upon, a judge can sort it out.

Legally, Mom is only obligated to go by the current court order. She can choose to allow him make up time with less than 48 hours notice, to occur within a week, but since the court order says 48 hours notice, she does not even have to do that. There seems to be nothing in the court order regarding accumulating make-up time, so weekends not specified in the court order as regular weekends for Dad need not be given over to Dad as accumulated makeup time for a series of missed Tuesdays.

I come from this from a different perspective than t74. I have a difficult ex. We do not "sit together at a dance recital". If we were "amicable", we'd still be together; there's a reason we are divorced. Even green reeds can only bend so far before being flattened.

My ex rarely goes by the court order at this point. Actually, because he chose to move halfway across the country, the original long distance plan is unworkable. Even for the portions requiring advanced notice - such as summer visitation - he rarely gives anywhere close to the amount of notice that he is supposed to. As in, last month I received 15 minutes notice. My take, in such situations, is to let him have what was reasonably convenient, let him know what has been scheduled, and work it out from there: taking the kid for the evening was fine, but breakfast was out because she had a morning dance performance, and he's no good at helping with the hair and makeup.

Ideally parents work together and try to encourage their children's interests. However, it is possible that one parent has no interest in working with the other, and has no interest in the child other than as an object, a play thing to possess occasionally and call it parenting time. In such cases, there is no co-parenting, there is not even parallel-parenting, because one of the parents is just clocking time.

I am sorry you have a difficult ex - even more so for the kiddos.

There is what is legal and what is in the best interests of the kids as their lives change as they age and gain more and different interests. Parents cannot be in court for every change to update the orders.

What is especially unfortunate when one parent denies the other ordered time by filing false reports. It is heart breaking when a child says "I wish my parents would stop fighting." I guess being civil - even if not cordial - is better than an all out battle.

 

[laurakaye]

Did mom discuss signing the child up for dance/cheer that might interfere with dad's time? Or did she just go ahead and do it? Does she care if it impacts dad's time? How far away does dad live from mom and the children? What are his work hours? What are mom's work hours?

OP wrote" "He lives about 30 minutes away from us."

 

[t74]

OP wrote" "He lives about 30 minutes away from us."

But is this rush hour timing?

 

[fighters1420]

I thank everyone. Dad gets EOW (Friday at 4:30 pm to Monday at 6:30 am). Per our agreement he also gets Tuesday every week from 4:30 pm - 8 pm. Over the past 2 years he has only exercised the Tuesday night dinner about 40% of the time and since November has not had them on Tuesday nights due to work. I understand work and schedules. But he has never exercised his right for a make up dinner at another time. The kids are out of school by 3:30 pm on average. Just the other week I offered to switch weekends so he did not miss time with our son, while our son was away at Boy Scout camp. Dad said he couldn't commit and so he could not switch weekends. Does anyone have a better suggestion for a custody schedule? I am very flexible but it should be fair on all parties.

 

[fighters1420]

Did mom discuss signing the child up for dance/cheer that might interfere with dad's time? Or did she just go ahead and do it? Does she care if it impacts dad's time? How far away does dad live from mom and the children? What are his work hours? What are mom's work hours?

I did discuss the dance/cheer with dad and he approved her doing it. It is on Tuesday nights, which is his dinner time, but he has since told us over the past 3 months he cannot do Tuesday's anymore. I can very much if it is dad's time. I have open communication through email and text when it impacts his schedule. We even have a calendar where I update it every few days. Dad lives 30 mins away depending on traffic. My schedule is very flexible and have changed many of appointments and etc to accommodate his changing schedule and even driving kids to his house on several occasions instead of meeting at our drop off area. Dads schedule changes on a daily basis as he works in the hotel industry.

 

[fighters1420]

But is this rush hour timing?

This is during normal time. During rush hour it is probably 45 mins - 1 hr.

 

[fighters1420]

A partial solution is to make what is a typical EOW of 2 nights to EOW of three nights (Fri pm tho Mon am).

Is the relationship between mom and dad cordial enough that they can be at the same event. Could they sit together at a dance recital?

The "have" to go to dad's is very telling in Mom's attitude. Both need an attitude adjustment for the best interest of the kids. Mom' really needs to want the kids to have a relationship with their dad. Her post have the overtone tone that he is an intruder in their lives. Rather than the 48 hour notice ir should be mom suddenly having something to do one evening and calling dad to ask if he would like to have the kids for dinner that night

We can sit by each other if he comes to the events. Our son has been in Boy Scouts for over 3 years. There are weekly meetings, tons of camp outs and weekend volunteer events. Out of the 3 years, dad has attended 3 of the events because it happen to be on his weekend and it was a required event. I have pushed for the kids to have a relationship with their dad. In fact, our son and dad were supposed to do counseling sessions together. Our son goes on a bi-weekly basis and dad was scheduled once a month to attend. He has canceled on the sessions continuously. I don't think my attitude in this situation is the problem. The "have" to comment is from the kids. I always respond that, yes you need and should go. Dad loves you and wants to spend time with you.

 

[not2cleverRed]

You being a willow, bending in the wind, while he stays a brick wall, is not reasonable.

I have seen willows fall over.

There can not be any suggestion for a more flexible schedule, if Dad is unwilling to be flexible.

Stick to the court order, explicitly offering make up time every time Dad skips.

If Dad wants an extra weekend, that is not in the court order, you do not have to capitulate. However, you could offer that he can have the (non-court-ordered) time if he honors the children's pre-existing commitments, should there be any.

He may yet take you to court over this. You want to be able to show that you've been reasonably flexible. It is reasonable, if he cannot make Tuesdays, to offer the choice of another evening. If he chooses to skip all week day evenings, that's on him, not you.

 

[not2cleverRed]

We can sit by each other if he comes to the events. Our son has been in Boy Scouts for over 3 years. There are weekly meetings, tons of camp outs and weekend volunteer events. Out of the 3 years, dad has attended 3 of the events because it happen to be on his weekend and it was a required event. I have pushed for the kids to have a relationship with their dad. In fact, our son and dad were supposed to do counseling sessions together. Our son goes on a bi-weekly basis and dad was scheduled once a month to attend. He has canceled on the sessions continuously. I don't think my attitude in this situation is the problem. The "have" to comment is from the kids. I always respond that, yes you need and should go. Dad loves you and wants to spend time with you.

The sad thing, is that your son, at 14 is old enough to make his own logical conclusions. Dad skipping counseling sessions with son - well, small wonder the son feels like it's "have to" when visiting Dad. Was the counseling court ordered? (If yes, why?)

No matter how much you encourage kids to see the positive in the other parent, they sometimes as they get older see... other things.

My child is at the point where she doesn't want her father at her performances, between his behavior (he's the parent openly flouting rules about pictures and videos) and his deprecating comments (the dancers in her class aren't willowy enough). But she has a love/hate relationship with both of us.

 

[fighters1420]

The sad thing, is that your son, at 14 is old enough to make his own logical conclusions. Dad skipping counseling sessions with son - well, small wonder the son feels like it's "have to" when visiting Dad. Was the counseling court ordered? (If yes, why?)

No matter how much you encourage kids to see the positive in the other parent, they sometimes as they get older see... other things.

My child is at the point where she doesn't want her father at her performances, between his behavior (he's the parent openly flouting rules about pictures and videos) and his deprecating comments (the dancers in her class aren't willowy enough). But she has a love/hate relationship with both of us.

The counseling was not court ordered. I suggested it when the relationship between our son and dad was not getting better. I wanted them to work through it and I couldn't be in the middle. I don't think they will ever have a great relationship, but I wanted them to have something. It was not the kids fault that we are divorced.

 

[not2cleverRed]

The counseling was not court ordered. I suggested it when the relationship between our son and dad was not getting better. I wanted them to work through it and I couldn't be in the middle. I don't think they will ever have a great relationship, but I wanted them to have something. It was not the kids fault that we are divorced.

Okay, then Dad doesn't have to go.

But if Dad does take you back to court, ask for it to be added - it's in the best interest of the children to improve the health of their relationship with Dad.

If Dad will only agree if you are also involved in the counseling, then call his bluff and agree.