Visually estimated my speed on a motorcycle at night

[Dirk92292]

Utah
Halloween night i was riding my motorcycle home from a friend's house around 10:30, I see cops tail lights way up around a turn so I slow down to a regular speed with traffic. I catch up to him about a minute later with the rest of traffic, he slows down gets behind me and pulls me over. And said I was going 120. He doesn't have me on radar and he estimated my speed from his minors? What is the best way to fight this in court. Thanks in advance

 

[adjusterjack]

I see cops tail lights way up around a turn so I slow down to a regular speed with traffic.

So, you were already exceeding the speed limit.

And said I was going 120.

What did you say to him about that?

He doesn't have me on radar and he estimated my speed from his minors?

How do you think police estimated speed before radar and still got convictions. They have experience estimating speed visually from doing it all day every day.

he estimated my speed from his minors?

You mean mirrors? Not hard for an experienced officer.

What is the best way to fight this in court.

Hire one of those "beat the ticket" lawyers. Or, just plead not guilty and hope for a plea bargain for something less than reckless driving.

 

[Taxing Matters]

What is the best way to fight this in court.

Hire a lawyer who handles traffic defense cases. I don't have all the facts, haven't seen the ticket, etc to know what defenses might have a shot at winning. Just going by what you said here, you'd likely need to undermine the officer's credibility on his estimate of your speed or offer compelling evidence of your own that your speed was not what the officer claimed it was. Most people who aren't lawyers don't know how to do that effectively which is why having a lawyer to handle it helps a great deal. Of course that means paying the lawyer's fee, which can be more than the ticket fine, but may be worth it to avoid the insurance premium increase you may face if convicted of going 120 or if charged with something more serious than simply speeding, like reckless driving, etc.

 

[Dirk92292]

So, you were already exceeding the speed limit.



What did you say to him about that?



How do you think police estimated speed before radar and still got convictions. They have experience estimating speed visually from doing it all day every day.



You mean mirrors? Not hard for an experienced officer.



Hire one of those "beat the ticket" lawyers. Or, just plead not guilty and hope for a plea bargain for something less than reckless driving.

I was speeding about 90 and I am willing to take a ticket for the speed I was going. And I told him my motorcycle doesn't go that fast and I know I wasn't going that fast.

 

[FlyingRon]

Your assertion that you "knew" you weren't going that fast or that the vehicle isn't capable of that speed isn't compelling. What matters is what testimony the officer is going to give as to how he determined your speed. Usually, it's relative to what speed he himself was going. If you are closing on him while he is doing 90 himself, he's got pretty good reference for your speed being substantially more.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Your assertion that...the vehicle isn't capable of that speed isn't compelling.

I disagree. It certainly can be compelling if it's true the bike can't do 120 and the OP can do what is needed to prove it. Typically that would mean getting an expert to test the bike and then testify in court as to its maximum speed. Of course there are specific rules for how to do that and experts don't come cheap. The OP would want a lawyer to represent him to make that argument work.

 

[FlyingRon]

That's evidence. As I said, his assertion isn't any more compelling than those made by Lin Wood or Rudy Giuliani.

 

[adjusterjack]

I was speeding about 90 and I am willing to take a ticket for the speed I was going. And I told him my motorcycle doesn't go that fast and I know I wasn't going that fast.

He cited you for 120 and got you to admit to 90. Either way you're in the soup.

Utah police have plenty of experience with drivers going over 100mph according to this article:

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/7/27/21340309/man-pulled-over-for-going-135-mph-is-just-latest-high-speed-arrest-in-utah

 

[Taxing Matters]

That's evidence. As I said, his assertion isn't any more compelling than those made by Lin Wood or Rudy Giuliani.

Again, I disagree. If he can make the case that his bike can't go 120 that directly contradicts the officer's statement that he was doing 120. How is the officer going to defend his claim of 120 for a bike that cannot go that speed? The obvious implication, if the judge believes the expert testimony on the bike's max speed, is that the officer isn't as skilled in estimating speed as he would claim to be. So that expert testimony would be very helpful evidence.

The problem with the assertions made by the other two is that they don't even have any good evidence to back up their wacky claims.

 

[Redemptionman1]

In order to determine or estimate speed the only other things this officer needs is time and distance. If he had a reference point and estimated your velocity via two reference points in a specific time then he could accurately estimate your speed.

It is not rocket science and at that speed you are lucky he did not take you jail.

 

[FlyingRon]

He cited you for 120 and got you to admit to 90. Either way you're in the soup.

Utah police have plenty of experience with drivers going over 100mph according to this article:

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/7/27/21340309/man-pulled-over-for-going-135-mph-is-just-latest-high-speed-arrest-in-utah

He's griping about the $300 increase in fine between the two. There's a $10/mph surcharge in the range he is talking about.

He's just darn lucky he's in one of those big empty square states. I guarantee you if he'd pulled that stunt here, he'd be in JAIL.

 

[Dirk92292]

He's griping about the $300 increase in fine between the two. There's a $10/mph surcharge in the range he is talking about.

He's just darn lucky he's in one of those big empty square states. I guarantee you if he'd pulled that stunt here, he'd be in JAIL.

I'm willing to pay the ticket and im ready to pay for a lawyer, I have the money but 50mph over is a felony im not willing to go to jail for a crime I didn't commit. I have alot of family in law enforcement and I was very polite and respectful to the officer. And the police officer didn't take me to jail because he knew he exaggerated on his "guess". After I told him I wasn't going that fast he told me he saw another blacked out bike that looked just like me going 130 about 2 hours before.

 

[Dirk92292]

In order to determine or estimate speed the only other things this officer needs is time and distance. If he had a reference point and estimated your velocity via two reference points in a specific time then he could accurately estimate your speed.

It is not rocket science and at that speed you are lucky he did not take you jail.

I only caught him because he slowed down to under the speed limit to get behind me

 

[Dirk92292]

He cited you for 120 and got you to admit to 90. Either way you're in the soup.

Utah police have plenty of experience with drivers going over 100mph according to this article:

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/7/27/21340309/man-pulled-over-for-going-135-mph-is-just-latest-high-speed-arrest-in-utah

I didn't admit to speeding at all to the officer I was polite took my ticket and politely told him the reasons I couldn't have been going the speed he estimated.

 

[Dirk92292]

Your assertion that you "knew" you weren't going that fast or that the vehicle isn't capable of that speed isn't compelling. What matters is what testimony the officer is going to give as to how he determined your speed. Usually, it's relative to what speed he himself was going. If you are closing on him while he is doing 90 himself, he's got pretty good reference for your speed being substantially more.

The only reason I caught up was him slowing way down