Water flooding from Roof and Ground Floor

[taylorfrombaylor88]

What is the name of your state? Georgia

The big hurricanes that came through on 9/17 and a month thereafter caused major damage to the first and third floors of my condo. I woke up to a dripping sound above my head in the master bedroom (third/top floor). This sound was in the walls; the subfloor of bedroom was wet. On the first floor, I was greeted with standing water in the bathroom that is located against the back exterior wall. After tearing off the exterior shingles, wood rot near the foundation of the house was found.
Drainage in the back patio is/was nonexistent; I have no drain for water to go anywhere and the patio isn't slanted away from the house. Water seeped under the house, under my ground flooring and my interior hardwood floor is now buckling up to a foot tall. yes 12" high.
My insurance denied the claim; HOA insurance will probably as well since they do not cover ground water.
My question..... who is liable? I am afraid the house might collapse with rotting wood on a load bearing wall. Am I liable to replace the framing of the house, the drainage outside my condo, and responsible for the extensive interior damage? Also afraid of mildew/mold!
Any help and/or guidance is appreciated. I BOUGHT THIS PLACE IN MARCH of 2020

 

[festival]

If it was me, I would get out the governing documents and start reading.

What are the exact boundaries or description of your condo unit? Are the exterior walls part of the unit, or are the exterior walls/studs common elements? What about the subfloors? These are often outside the unit boundaries, and are the responsibility of the condo association, but it varies from condominium to condominium, so you have to figure out the definition of a condo unit (and common element) in your docs.

There should be a maintenance section that describes who maintains what.

Insurance usually covers sudden accidental damage, so things like wood rot are not usually covered by insurance.

Insurance usually excludes mold (fungi) unless you pay extra for that coverage. You have to get rid of the moisture yourself to avoid the mold. This means removing flooring to allow the subfloor to dry out, getting dehumidifiers, opening walls and so on. If the moisture is in the walls that are a common element, then the association should be helping/paying to dry out the walls.

Is your insurance covering the third floor damage?

Ask your adjuster the same questions you are asking here.

The association has to have insurance coverage for part or all of your condo unit, minus a deductible that can be very large. What are they telling you?

Is the patio part of your unit, or a common element, or a limited common element? According to your documents, who maintains the patio? The association usually maintains the common elements and some limited common elements, and may be responsible for correcting drainage issues. Did the association know there were drainage problems and failed to correct them? If so they may be negligent and their liability coverage (not their property damage coverage) should pay for damages due to poor drainage.

 

[Just Blue]

@festival This thread was reported for deletion (it's a dup)...please delete your post and repost it on OP's other thread. Thanks.

 

[taylorfrombaylor88]

If it was me, I would get out the governing documents and start reading.

What are the exact boundaries or description of your condo unit? Are the exterior walls part of the unit, or are the exterior walls/studs common elements? What about the subfloors? These are often outside the unit boundaries, and are the responsibility of the condo association, but it varies from condominium to condominium, so you have to figure out the definition of a condo unit (and common element) in your docs.

There should be a maintenance section that describes who maintains what.

Insurance usually covers sudden accidental damage, so things like wood rot are not usually covered by insurance.

Insurance usually excludes mold (fungi) unless you pay extra for that coverage. You have to get rid of the moisture yourself to avoid the mold. This means removing flooring to allow the subfloor to dry out, getting dehumidifiers, opening walls and so on. If the moisture is in the walls that are a common element, then the association should be helping/paying to dry out the walls.

Is your insurance covering the third floor damage?

Ask your adjuster the same questions you are asking here.

The association has to have insurance coverage for part or all of your condo unit, minus a deductible that can be very large. What are they telling you?

Is the patio part of your unit, or a common element, or a limited common element? According to your documents, who maintains the patio? The association usually maintains the common elements and some limited common elements, and may be responsible for correcting drainage issues. Did the association know there were drainage problems and failed to correct them? If so they may be negligent and their liability coverage (not their property damage coverage) should pay for damages due to poor drainage.

thank you for the reply. I am unsure of ownership on the backdoor patio and maintenance responsibilities. I have dehumidifiers in the bottom floor drying everything out.

my insurance denied the third story water damage due to roof maintennace not Being maintained properly.
will ask HOA for the governance document and research.

 

[quincy]

This is the problem with duplicate threads.

I will now report your other thread (https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/home-insurance-hoa-insurance-question.660318/) and let the moderator know this is the thread that should remain. Your original post eventually will be returned to the head of this thread.

Please wait for a post from “adjusterjack.” He is a former insurance adjuster.

Did you have an inspection prior to purchasing the condo? Did the seller provide you with a seller’s disclosure form, noting any previous water damage?

The fact that you found dry rot indicates that the water damage is not just from the recent hurricane but rather a long-standing issue.

 

[quincy]

You answered some of my questions on your other, soon-to-be-deleted thread. I understand from your other thread that you did have a home inspection in March and that the seller did not disclose any previous water damage.

It is possible (I don’t know how probable) that the seller was unaware of any water damage or dry rot. If the inspection did not show any foundation cracks or a buckled patio or damage to the roof, and there were no telltale signs of water damage inside (e.g., stains on the wall, ceiling or wall cracks, mold in the attic), you could be stuck paying for the repairs. If you find that the seller WAS aware of leaks and did not disclose this, you could have a legitimate claim against the seller.

Has Georgia offered any low-interest hurricane assistance (loans) to homeowners whose homes were damaged in the storms?

 

[festival]

thank you for the reply. I am unsure of ownership on the backdoor patio and maintenance responsibilities. I have dehumidifiers in the bottom floor drying everything out.

my insurance denied the third story water damage due to roof maintennace not Being maintained properly.
will ask HOA for the governance document and research.

You may have been given the condo Declaration by the seller when you purchased your condo, so maybe you already have it in your files? Many counties have a website that has copies of these documents, so you may be able to get it online from the website of the Clerk of the court in your county.

If the roof was bad, and your association was negligent in maintaining the roof, then your association's liability insurance may pay the third floor damage.

 

[quincy]

As a note: Hurricane Zeta produced a lot of rain and strong winds in Georgia, which resulted in some flooding, scattered power outages and downed trees, but the State was not declared a federal disaster area. You would need to seek out State or local assistance, should you find yourself having to foot the bill for repairs and you need some financial help.

There is a chance that the seller or the HOA or possibly even the inspector who evaluated the home’s condition prior to purchase could be shown to have some liability. You might want to discuss your situation with an attorney in your area.

 

[adjusterjack]

This is a mess. Taylor's original post was deleted from this thread per Blue's request and now Quincy is having the other thread deleted. Fortunately, Blue quoted the original post in the other thread. Here it is.

What is the name of your state? Georgia
The big hurricanes that came through on 9/17 and a month thereafter caused major damage to the first and third floors of my condo. I woke up to a dripping sound above my head in the master bedroom (third/top floor). This sound was in the walls; the subfloor of bedroom was wet. On the first floor, I was greeted with standing water in the bathroom that is located against the back exterior wall. After tearing off the exterior shingles, wood rot near the foundation of the house was found.
Drainage in the back patio is/was nonexistent; I have no drain for water to go anywhere and the patio isn't slanted away from the house. Water seeped under the house, under my ground flooring and my interior hardwood floor is now buckling up to a foot tall. yes 12" high.
My insurance denied the claim; HOA insurance will probably as well since they do not cover ground water.
My question..... who is liable? I am afraid the house might collapse with rotting wood on a load bearing wall. Am I liable to replace the framing of the house, the drainage outside my condo, and responsible for the extensive interior damage? Also afraid of mildew/mold!
Any help and/or guidance is appreciated. I BOUGHT THIS PLACE IN MARCH of 2020

yes had a home inspection in March. This is definitely an issue that occurred before I was present. Assuming they did try to hide something, am I going after the seller?

Please wait for a post from “adjusterjack.” He is a former insurance adjuster.

Festival has made the same comments that I would have made so I'll sit on the sidelines for a bit.
Festival, do you have insurance background?

Taylor, I agree that you should be reading your CC&Rs for the definitions of "unit" and "common elements."

 

[zddoodah]

my condo.

the house

So...are we talking about a condo or a house (e.g., a single-family residence)?

My insurance denied the claim

Because...???

who is liable?

What makes you think someone might be liable? We're talking about weather-related damage, right? No one's "liable" for the weather.

That said, if your home is, in fact, a condominium, then your ownership stops at the interior walls.

 

[quincy]

Taylor has said pretty clearly that his residence is a condo.

 

[adjusterjack]

That said, if your home is, in fact, a condominium, then your ownership stops at the interior walls.

At which part of the walls? Some CC&R define "unit" to include drywall and floor boards with only bare studs and joists as "common elements" and others just the opposite. I've seen it both ways in condo claims. Hence the importance of determining the definition of "unit."

 

[quincy]

I recommend that Taylor read over his contract with the home inspector. There could be an “exculpatory” clause which limits the inspector’s liability to the cost of the inspection, or there could be a disclaimer that limits liability to accessible areas of the home only (e.g., not behind walls, beneath flooring). But it also could be possible that a claim against the home inspection company (for negligence, professional malpractice, breach of contract) could be considered.

The seller, too, could be held liable for costs of repairs if known material defects were not disclosed prior to the sale. This could be hard to prove if the inspection did not find any defects. If, however, the seller had approached the HOA about roof issues or drainage problems at any time prior to the house sale, the seller might have to spring for the cost of the repairs.

The HOA could be liable if the roof and exterior defects were known to the HOA prior to the sale and not addressed.

A second home inspection could determine better what defects should have been discovered by the first inspector (although the passage of time and the hurricane complicates this assessment) and what should have been noticed by the home seller and the HOA.

There will be difficulty in proving any of this eight months after the sale. An attorney’s review would be helpful.


(as a note to adjusterjack: The posts to this thread and the other thread all occurred within minutes of each other, with festival’s first post in this thread coming after this thread was already reported for deletion and the other thread already having responses and Taylor having responded to both threads. This thread had more content and was “saved” for that reason)

 

[taylorfrombaylor88]

I recommend that Taylor read over his contract with the home inspector. There could be an “exculpatory” clause which limits the inspector’s liability to the cost of the inspection, or there could be a disclaimer that limits liability to accessible areas of the home only (e.g., not behind walls, beneath flooring). But it also could be possible that a claim against the home inspection company (for negligence, professional malpractice, breach of contract) could be considered.

The seller, too, could be held liable for costs of repairs if known material defects were not disclosed prior to the sale. This could be hard to prove if the inspection did not find any defects. If, however, the seller had approached the HOA about roof issues or drainage problems at any time prior to the house sale, the seller might have to spring for the cost of the repairs.

The HOA could be liable if the roof and exterior defects were known to the HOA prior to the sale and not addressed.

A second home inspection could determine better what defects should have been discovered by the first inspector (although the passage of time and the hurricane complicates this assessment) and what should have been noticed by the home seller and the HOA.

There will be difficulty in proving any of this eight months after the sale. An attorney’s review would be helpful.


(as a note to adjusterjack: The posts to this thread and the other thread all occurred within minutes of each other, with festival’s first post in this thread coming after this thread was already reported for deletion and the other thread already having responses and Taylor having responded to both threads. This thread had more content and was “saved” for that reason)

there were roof leakage problems before the sale of the home that we’re deemed as fixed before I purchased.

irregardless, the roof isn’t my responsibility to maintain. Any water getting in from the roof should be covered by the HOA or my home owner insurance. My home insurance has denied the claim in the third floor due to “negligent maintenance.”

it is hard to tell what my responsibilities are when it comes to the exterior wall and proper drainage on the patio of my condo.

I had standing water in my first floor bathroom; the back drywallon the exterior side wall was soft. It was hidden from sight and was not caught on the inspection.Wood Rot can not occur in8 months. It’s tough but I don’t see how I am responsible for the bones of the condo; there’s just no way I would take on the responsibility of the framing of the house, hidden from sight, behind the dry wall.

thanks for the help everyone

 

[quincy]

there were roof leakage problems before the sale of the home that we’re deemed as fixed before I purchased.

irregardless, the roof isn’t my responsibility to maintain. Any water getting in from the roof should be covered by the HOA or my home owner insurance. My home insurance has denied the claim in the third floor due to “negligent maintenance.”

it is hard to tell what my responsibilities are when it comes to the exterior wall and proper drainage on the patio of my condo.

I had standing water in my first floor bathroom; the back drywallon the exterior side wall was soft. It was hidden from sight and was not caught on the inspection.Wood Rot can not occur in8 months. It’s tough but I don’t see how I am responsible for the bones of the condo; there’s just no way I would take on the responsibility of the framing of the house, hidden from sight, behind the dry wall.

thanks for the help everyone

It will be the hidden defects that are your biggest challenge. If you were aware that the roof leaked prior to your purchase and did not inspect for interior water damage, that is a problem, as would be a failure to closely inspect the roof to make sure adequate repairs were completed.