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doc2b

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

My husband recieved the responses to his motions from his ex yesterday. Just to clarify, is he supposed to respond to the response, or does he do that at their court date?

Also, there are several things that weren't addressed in the responses from his motions. Does that mean they are uncontested and she's in agreement, or just that she has chosen not to respond?

Thanks for the help, I'm sure he'll have more questions as I speak to him later in the day :)
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

My husband recieved the responses to his motions from his ex yesterday. Just to clarify, is he supposed to respond to the response, or does he do that at their court date?

Also, there are several things that weren't addressed in the responses from his motions. Does that mean they are uncontested and she's in agreement, or just that she has chosen not to respond?

Thanks for the help, I'm sure he'll have more questions as I speak to him later in the day :)
If he thinks there is something he should respond to, he should do it.

We have no way to guess what it means by the fact that she didn't respond to certain things.
 

doc2b

Member
If he thinks there is something he should respond to, he should do it.

We have no way to guess what it means by the fact that she didn't respond to certain things.
Thank you, LD. Sorry if I'm being dense (not enough coffee yet)... does that mean he should respond in writing before the date or just be prepared to respond when he's in front of the referree? There are definitely some things he feels the need to respond to.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Thank you, LD. Sorry if I'm being dense (not enough coffee yet)... does that mean he should respond in writing before the date or just be prepared to respond when he's in front of the referree? There are definitely some things he feels the need to respond to.
Then he should go ahead and respond in writing.
 

doc2b

Member
If anyone has the time to look these parts from the original motion and the responses over and give an opinion on which options are the most realistic/fair for mom and dad, I would appreciate it. Try as I might to give him my unbiased opinion (and believe me, my husband doesn't like it most times), I still feel like I tend to take sides and he needs guidance from an uninvolved party. Some of the requests they can agree on, so I won't put them in here.

1. Husband has W/Th/Fr/Sa overnights each week. Mom has kids at 9am/2pm on Sundays (alternating) until Wed. 6pm, then again after school until 6pm on Thursday and Friday because Dad had late work schedule at time of original agreement (he has since been able to change his work hours to allow him to get out early enough to pick them up from school). He's asking for uninterupted parenting time from Wednesday at 6pm until mom picks them up Sunday so that he can actually have time to do homework/have dinner/allow kids time to do extracurriculars and free time without the time constraint (their bedtime is 9pm and they don't actually get home from pickup until 6:30pm). Her response is that he has sufficient/substantial parenting time and that her parenting time would be severely impacted if this were granted. She then goes on to say that she should be allowed every other weekend starting at 9am Friday through 9am Monday. (My bias may be showing here, but if she'd be severely impacted by losing out on 5 hours a week, what about my husband losing between 4 and 6 days and nights a month? Keep in mind, too, he almost always allows her to have the kids on his weekend days if she gives him enough notice for their plans, but she will not reciprocate.)

2. They both agree to change ROFR to 8 hours rather than 2 hours. Existing order allows grandparents (maternal and paternal) 2 overnights per month during their own child's parenting time. Mom wants to lift the limit and allow grandparents unlimited overnights with the kids. Dad thinks limit has worked well for 2 years now, and would like the opportunity for the kids to spend more time with their parents if mom or dad is unavailable to the kids outside the normal grandparents visitation and the ROFR. This only limits overnights absent the parents, not time spent with the grandparents during the parent's designated days.

3. Dad proposed 2 weeks summer vacation to replace 1 week summer vacation for both parents (to be used all at once or in 2 blocks). Also, that both parents give 30 days notice of intent to use time, unless otherwise agreed upon. Mom still only wants 7 days per parent, with 30 days notice and approval of other party ("cannot conflict with other scheduled events").

As a side note, she's tried to inhibit his summer vacation time in the past. He gave 3 months notice that there was a Disney trip planned, 2 months later she finally responded that she had plans with family coming into town and he wasn't allowed to take them. Basically, this would give her free reign to say no to anytime he requested for vacation days for any reason she chooses.

4. Dad wanted to clarify times for Mother's/Father's day and parents and kids' birthdays. CO currently states "children's birthdays shall be spent with Plaintiff in all odd numbered years, with the defendant in all even numbered years" (no times given). Mother's day/Father's day/parent's b-days are from 10am-8pm. Dad suggested 9am -8:30 pm. Mom responded with "Mother's day shall start at 9am" (since mother's day and fathers day fall on Sunday, she's got no real end time since she already has them overnight).

5. Current CO has dad getting Winter break (they alternate Christmas Eve and Christmas Day), and mom gets mid-winter break. Mom suggests alternating first and second weeks of winter break, and alternating mid-winter break (not a big deal, sounds fair). Problem is, Dad's Birthday falls during second half of winter break, and he wouldn't be able to see the kids for his birthday if it's her half of the break. Also, she is requesting that if he has the first half of the break, she is allowed to have the kids the first Sunday of his portion of the break for her family Christmas party (which he has always let her have them, at least for half of the day...but, if we were to ever want to visit out of town relatives over Christmas, this would cut a few days out of our travel time).

6. Mom wants written notification of any plans to travel out of state, including dates, times, locations, addresses, phone numbers, and names. (She didn't ask for him to have to have a permission slip signed, though :rolleyes:) She does, however, want the court to require the parent's consent to travel with the kids out of the country (I wish we could afford overseas travel).

7. Mom wants ANY change in domicile approved by her or the court (she caught wind that we were trying to get a bigger house since we've outgrown this one...as it stands, CO states that we only need to notify her of local moves, and only need her permission or court permission outside of 50 miles from current residence. We're looking at moving a maximum of 8 miles further away from mom than we already are, and have been providing the kids' transportation to the school in the mornings even though she's supposed to, so it won't impact her in the least since my husband (or I) does all the driving).

8. Dad asked for children to be able to spend max 5 hours time with half-siblings on their birthday, no response from mom. (just looking for an opinion as to whether that's reasonable or if he should drop it).

I think that's all he was wondering for the parenting plan portion of the motions/response. It ends with a request for motion to be denied and request that the court grant relief requested in Def. paragraph 7. What the heck does that mean? There is no paragraph seven:confused:

If you took the time to read all this and still have the energy to respond, it's much appreciated!
 

doc2b

Member
Sorry about the long post yesterday...it was obviously too long :eek:

I did have another question to post, with regards to the motions and response, but it's about the child support review part. Should I keep it in this thread, or start a new one in the other forum?
 

wileybunch

Senior Member
1. What's the question here? Was the original intent to share physical custody 50/50-ish? Mom's response seems to be one set up to create a gap they can "compromise" into. BS. Husband should keep firm on wanting the 50/50 time if that's what the original intent was. I can see Mom not liking that Dad gets every weekend, so maybe Dad needs to be thinking of a 50/50 that alternates their weekends and be proposing that.

2. Was is there a grandparent restriction at all? Either party should be able to do what they want on their time. In this light, you can see how this ROFR is ridiculous. Any chance the ROFR can be removed altogether? Or that it can be changed to just the circumstances where the parent is going to be AWAY overnight that the other party has ROFR to keep care of the child?

3. The way she's handling summer vacation now, not getting back to Dad for 30 days, is BS, but I can see that happen legitimately, too, that family's coming into town so she hadn't notified Dad of child's plans. But, there needs to be a quicker approval time on it. Perhaps reduce it to 48 hours (it's either a yes or a no). If they are sharing custody per #1, then the 2 weeks vacation can turn out to be a large chunk so maybe that's what Mom's issue is, but 2 weeks does not seem unreasonable, either.

4. This is a toss up, but 9AM is not UNreasonable.

5. Mom's Christmas party - She can have the kids for that every other year. Kids have a right to have that same tradition at their Dad's house (or another one -- point is neither parent should own that day unless it's a day the other parent doesn't care about).

Dad's birthday - Same as above. Dad will have the kids on his b'day every other year and the other years he'll celebrate earlier or later. I'll keep my comments about parents making a big deal out of their b'days to myself. :p

6. This isn't unreasonable. Why wouldn't you want to do that (and this would go both ways).

7. That is unreasonable.

8. Sure, ask, but not a hill to die on. And, in fact, in these family situations, the family -- all members -- need to be understanding so if the half-siblings want them present and they're at moms, half-siblings can make a decision whether to have party without them or not.

It ends with a request for motion to be denied and request that the court grant relief requested in Def. paragraph 7. What the heck does that mean? There is no paragraph seven
That's probably a typo. Sounds like they're looking for attorney's fees.
 

doc2b

Member
Hi, Wiley. Thanks for the response! I guess there wasn't so much a question as just looking for everybody's opinion to relay to my husband before he drafts a response to her response.

1. What's the question here? Was the original intent to share physical custody 50/50-ish? Mom's response seems to be one set up to create a gap they can "compromise" into. BS. Husband should keep firm on wanting the 50/50 time if that's what the original intent was. I can see Mom not liking that Dad gets every weekend, so maybe Dad needs to be thinking of a 50/50 that alternates their weekends and be proposing that.

Yes, the original intent was to have approx. 50/50. Mom wasn't working at all in the beginning, and dad was working 60+ hours a week (M-F), so their reasoning behind him getting every weekend was because he would only get the kids after school Th and Fr and all day Saturday (alternating Sundays), while she got them after school M, T, W and every other Sunday, plus she has them all day every day during the summer while he's at work. She's working now, but was able to create a schedule that works around her parenting time with the kids. And, dad usually does give her weekend time when she asks, especially since that's when they get to see most of her family.


2. Was is there a grandparent restriction at all? Either party should be able to do what they want on their time. In this light, you can see how this ROFR is ridiculous. Any chance the ROFR can be removed altogether? Or that it can be changed to just the circumstances where the parent is going to be AWAY overnight that the other party has ROFR to keep care of the child?

The grandparent restriction was actually something that mom wanted in the CO so that neither of them would "dump the kids off" excessively. My husband doesn't disagree that they should be able to do what they want on their own time, but wants to have the right to be the one caring for the kids in the event that mom is unavailable for a stretch of time (basically, he's trying to stop from happening what happened last summer...mom left on vacation, leaving kids with gramma. Dad couldn't get ahold of them and didn't know where they were, 3 days after she left, she sent a text that she was across the country, gramma had the kids, he could pick them up at her place next day). I agree that the ROFR is ridiculous, they both seem to want it, though. I'll pass on the idea of being given ROFR just for overnights-I think that makes far more sense. It's gotten to the point where everybody gets all paranoid about even letting the kids sleep over at a friend's house :(

3. The way she's handling summer vacation now, not getting back to Dad for 30 days, is BS, but I can see that happen legitimately, too, that family's coming into town so she hadn't notified Dad of child's plans. But, there needs to be a quicker approval time on it. Perhaps reduce it to 48 hours (it's either a yes or a no). If they are sharing custody per #1, then the 2 weeks vacation can turn out to be a large chunk so maybe that's what Mom's issue is, but 2 weeks does not seem unreasonable, either.

I see what you mean about it turning into a big chunk....the CO specifies how many overnights of each parents' time the other one is entitled to in order to keep it from being drawn out. (If that makes sense)

4. This is a toss up, but 9AM is not UNreasonable.

No, not unreasonable at all. Just the fact that she wants it to start earlier but didn't address the ending time.

5. Mom's Christmas party - She can have the kids for that every other year. Kids have a right to have that same tradition at their Dad's house (or another one -- point is neither parent should own that day unless it's a day the other parent doesn't care about).

That's kind of my opinion, too. Dad has given it to her so far because there hasn't been any conflict in the schedule, and the kids like going because there are a lot of long distance relatives that come in. But, he doesn't think it's fair to force it during his vacation time.

Dad's birthday - Same as above. Dad will have the kids on his b'day every other year and the other years he'll celebrate earlier or later. I'll keep my comments about parents making a big deal out of their b'days to myself. :p

He's spoiled rotten about his birthday! He's kind of big baby on his birthday...that's my only real pet peeve about my husband, so I guess I can't complain too much. Plus (being the big baby he is about his birthday) he doesn't think it's fair that mom will always get to spend her b-day with the kids because it doesn't fall on a holiday or break. I told him tough, but he pouts anyway :rolleyes:

6. This isn't unreasonable. Why wouldn't you want to do that (and this would go both ways).

No issues with out of country travel approval. I guess it's not really an issue with out of state travel info, either...but she always has phone contact via cell with the kids and hubby just doesn't think it's any of either of their business to pry into each others plans. It's also come about that when she has known about two out of town trips that we have all taken ahead of time, she made threats to keep the kids because she didn't approve/had other plans/etc. and that spooked him a little bit.

7. That is unreasonable.

Hopefully the referree agrees with you.

8. Sure, ask, but not a hill to die on. And, in fact, in these family situations, the family -- all members -- need to be understanding so if the half-siblings want them present and they're at moms, half-siblings can make a decision whether to have party without them or not.

Never hurts to ask, right? :D We have a little guy turning one next month, and mom already said no to letting the kids come over for 2 hours to celebrate...poo :(

That's probably a typo. Sounds like they're looking for attorney's fees.

She doesn't have an attorney, but I looked at their current CO and paragraph 7 is with regards to the child support order. Maybe she added it into the wrong response...and is requesting that CS remain the same?
 
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doc2b

Member
Okay, here's part 2 of the questions:

Dad put in a request to review support and make a new recommendation based on the fact that:
1) Part of the original agreement between mom and dad was that he pay alimony (which has since ended) and an inflated CS amount for a while in order to help her get on her feet since she was just starting to work again. The original CS amount was about 50% more than what was calculated. This has been in effect for over 2 years (the minimum the state requires for reviewing support), and he feels that is sufficient time for her to get herself in a better financial situation since she is licensed in two professions now and has been able to obtain gainful employment. Even if she's calculated at min wage full time income, the formula recommends less than 1/3 of what he's paying now.
2) She is now working (has been basically since the divorce) and has at least one job (she may have quit the other one), and feels that her income needs to be figured in to the calculations to appropriately reflect what she should be contributing to raising the kids.

He's not trying to screw her, just wants to follow the state guidelines as the FOC calculates them at this point. Now, for the forms he filled out, he had to "guess" (basically impute) an income based on what he thought she is earning since he's not privy to that information. The FOC is doing a full investigation, so they'll get actual figures, anyway from her employer.

She responded saying that his figures were wrong (obviously), and that she is not working full time (he imputed at 30 hours a week). She also said that she is experienceing a hardship because her income does not cover all of her expenses. Now, I understand that it's hard to come by work (I'm struggling to find something myself), but her company is always hiring full time, so the hours are available and just not being utilized (for whatever reason).

She then went on to say the current agreement for CS was based on the fact that she gave him more time with the kids in exchange for more CS :eek: And, that dad "knew he would have not gotten as much time as he did, so he agreed" to the inflated CS. Couldn't believe my ears when he read me that one...

Lastly, she disagrees that he is suffering hardship. She brought up that he lived rent free for 9 months (over 4 years ago) while going through foreclosure (she was living in the house for 4 of those while he was paying for a rental she chose not to utilize until the police removed her from the home). He then moved in with his parents for a while until I was able to move up here with him. He had taken on a bankruptcy just prior to the divorce and was not able to find a home without a cosigner because his credit was tanked. (He paid his parents rent and utilities while there, so it wasn't for free at all). She also points out that I should be contributing to the family, financially, since I'm married to him. I'm pregnant, WAHM to my 1 yr old, actively seeking employment while working as a seamstress from home for extra money. She and I don't talk, so she obviously doesn't know this.
(This so irks me, I have no problem working and earning to help support this family, which I'm trying really hard at, but how dare she imply that I should go to work so she can just work part time :mad:)

So...background out of the way, how does he respond to this? All he's looking for is an investigation and new recommendation, which is already underway through FOC. Also, he's voluntarily submitting a financial declaration. Is it possible that he request that they get one from her, as well, in order to determine if she's got other income?

And, this is purely speculation on my part, but it seems awefully convenient that she is now requesting additional overnights in her response to his motion, now that he's looking to modify CS if appropriate...hasn't ever been an issue until his request was filed. Is it possible that the court will see this as a tactic to try and secure the support amount?

Sorry so long winded again...I do appreciate the patient souls that read this, though. I swear, if we could afford him an attorney to do this, we would...my fingers hurt :p
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
Just a thought here. Have it decreed that in odd-number years, mom gets first choice of summer weeks for vacation; dad gets first choice even-number years. Or whichever way you want ...
 

doc2b

Member
Just gonna ask the same question - why is Dad not asking these questions?
He is (technically)...I know you guys hate other people asking, but all of my threads have been at his request. He works during the day, and I let him be with the kids at night instead of typing on here, paying bills, etc. I'm a low paid secretary, I guess :D.

Seriously, though, the biggest reason is that he has a reading disorder that makes it hard for him to read and process the context of what's written correctly, and the same thing kind of happens in reverse when he types and writes (it just gets frustrating to him and takes a really, really long time...if it even gets finished before he gives up). This whole process has been a learning experience for he and I both, for sure. I've read every state statute/guideline/court rule/forum posting, etc I could find, tried to interpret it and relay it to him as accurately as possible, then when he figures out what questions he feels the need to ask, he lets me know and I put them on here for him. It's been a pretty discouraging process overall, because he can't afford an attorney anymore and makes too much for any kind of legal assistance (and really, these are pretty minor issues compared to most of the stuff I read on here), but I feel a responsiblity to help him as much as I can because I'm able to, and he asked if I would. Make sense?
 

2Mistakes

Senior Member
Just gonna ask the same question - why is Dad not asking these questions?
This is 1 time that I think this is just a spouse trying to stay in the background and help dad gather info.

doc2be doesn't APPEAR to be an overstepping step, although I know that appearances can be deceiving.

doc2be, stay in the background on this as much as possible, or you will cause problems for your husband. And understand that most here don't generally advise 3rd parties, which you are.
 

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