Who is at fault?

[newstart18]

What is the name of your state? Ohio. I was involved in an accident yesterday, and am not sure who is at fault. I was approaching a 4 way intersection, where 2 cars in front of me were stopped at a red light. The road I was driving on is a 2 lane road. There is not a right turn lane, but the road was widened a bit with asphalt a while back, to where cars commonly pull up to the light and turn right on red. I did this, pulling to the intersection and coming to a complete stop at the light. My car was actually a bit in front and to the right of the front car at the light. With the light still red, the front car suddenly pulled up and turned right, and ran the side of his car into the front fender of mine. My first thought was that he was angry that I pulled up to turn right on red, and tried to turn in front of me. When we got out of our cars, he said that I was in his blind spot and he could not see me. I found this very hard to believe, since my car was actually a bit ahead of his. He also said that I was definitely at fault because I was driving on the berm, and there is no turn lane on this road. The damage to the cars was not that bad, and he seemed to be in a hurry to get somewhere. I don't think either of us was that interested in a police report or getting insurance involved, so we exchanged information and left. It turns out that he lives 2 blocks from me. I didn't expect to see him again, but this morning he came to my house and asked if I wanted to pay to have his van fixed out of pocket, or if we should get the police and insurance involved. We spoke briefly and the tone was civil, and he said he would get a couple of estimates and get back to me in a day or two. I did not commit to anything. I am really struggling with this, because again I came to a complete stop and the other driver turned and hit me. With what I have said here, can anyone tell me who they think is at fault for the accident?What is the name of your state?

 

[moburkes]

If I am reading correctly, you were on a road that is one lane in ech direction, yet you pulled up on the side of the vehicle in front of you. The vehicle in front of you was in the correct and legal lane, and when he went to turn right, you were in his way. You were at fault.

 

[AHA]

What is the name of your state? Ohio. I was involved in an accident yesterday, and am not sure who is at fault. I was approaching a 4 way intersection, where 2 cars in front of me were stopped at a red light. The road I was driving on is a 2 lane road. There is not a right turn lane, but the road was widened a bit with asphalt a while back, to where cars commonly pull up to the light and turn right on red. I did this, pulling to the intersection and coming to a complete stop at the light. My car was actually a bit in front and to the right of the front car at the light. With the light still red, the front car suddenly pulled up and turned right, and ran the side of his car into the front fender of mine. My first thought was that he was angry that I pulled up to turn right on red, and tried to turn in front of me. When we got out of our cars, he said that I was in his blind spot and he could not see me. I found this very hard to believe, since my car was actually a bit ahead of his. He also said that I was definitely at fault because I was driving on the berm, and there is no turn lane on this road. The damage to the cars was not that bad, and he seemed to be in a hurry to get somewhere. I don't think either of us was that interested in a police report or getting insurance involved, so we exchanged information and left. It turns out that he lives 2 blocks from me. I didn't expect to see him again, but this morning he came to my house and asked if I wanted to pay to have his van fixed out of pocket, or if we should get the police and insurance involved. We spoke briefly and the tone was civil, and he said he would get a couple of estimates and get back to me in a day or two. I did not commit to anything. I am really struggling with this, because again I came to a complete stop and the other driver turned and hit me. With what I have said here, can anyone tell me who they think is at fault for the accident?What is the name of your state?

How can he have run into your FRONT fender if your car was "ahead of his"????

 

[efflandt]

When you approached him did he have his right turn signal on?

It is not clear where you were if there was no right turn lane. Was the normally travelled portion of the road wide enough there for an extra lane (city street?), and were there any lines on the road? If you were on the shoulder or crossed over a solid white line, you were in the wrong place.

 

[newstart18]

How can he have run into your FRONT fender if your car was "ahead of his"????

My car was about a quarter to half a car length ahead of his when I came to a stop. The other driver then tried to pull around and turn ahead of me, and cut it too close. His passenger door hit my front fender on the drivers side. He said that he didn't see me, which I found very hard to believe. My car was slightly ahead of his.

 

[moburkes]

But were you in a legal lane? It doesn't sound like you were, based on your post. Therefore, we have determined, based on your posts, that you were at fault, since you were not in a legal lane at the time of the accident.

 

[newstart18]

When you approached him did he have his right turn signal on?

It is not clear where you were if there was no right turn lane. Was the normally travelled portion of the road wide enough there for an extra lane (city street?), and were there any lines on the road? If you were on the shoulder or crossed over a solid white line, you were in the wrong place.

Your questions point to why I was not sure about the fault of the accident. The road is a 2 way (1 lane in each direction) road. There are solid white lines on either side of the road. However, the solid white lines end roughly 100 feet before the 4 way intersection. So, I did not not cross over a solid white line (I was thinking about this exact thing before I read your reply.) About 50 feet before the intersection, the road is slightly widened with asphalt. People very regularly (always) pull up to this light to the right, as I did, and turn right on red there. Although the road is a 2 way, there is room for 2 cars on the right. The other point I was going to make in my initial post is that the other driver definitely did not have his right turn signal on. Thus, my confusion - 1) white line ends well before intersection 2) probably enough room for another lane, and asphalt put down to slightly widen the road 3) people regularly turn right on red from this part of the road 4) no turn signal by other driver 5) other driver hit me while I was stopped. If I was in the wrong place and was in the wrong, then I want to do the right thing. To me, however, it is not clear that I was in the wrong. Thanks for your help and advice.

 

[moburkes]

Obviously, your insurance company will determine fault. Just because people "regularly" pull into that unmarked portion of the road that was widened, doesn't make it right. Hey, people regularly speed, but if they get caught, they will get a ticket.

Nothing in any of your posts indicates that this is a legal lane. Your insurance company may assign each of you a % of negligence. I don't know. However, based solely on what you have written, we all have decided that you were the at fault party. Sorry that you don't like that answer.

I'm out.

 

[CdwJava]

Okay ... by MY read, it sounds like the OP puled to the right hand curb and stopped at a red light to make a right turn on the red. The other vehicle in the same lane was more to the center indicative that he might be going straight. The other vehicle then started forward, turned right, and struck the OP's vehicle on the left side.

Of course insurance companies will decide fault under their own formula. Had the police been called, it is very likely that the OP would NOT have been at fault in their report. This is based upon the assumptions that the expanded asphalt to the right was not a "shoulder" forbidden to traffic and was instead a widened part of the roadway next to a curb.

Some authority to pass on the right:

§ 4511.28. Permission to overtake and pass on the right.

(A) The driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley may overtake and pass upon the right of another vehicle or trackless trolley only under the following conditions:

(2) Upon a roadway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles moving lawfully in the direction being traveled by the overtaking vehicle.

And ...

§ 4511.36. Rules for turns at intersections

A) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall be governed by the following rules:

(1) Approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

There may be others, but this is what my search found to support a contention that the OP might have been in the right to make the turn.

Caveat: This is presuming my assumptions are correct about the location of the vehicles and that the OP was actualyl on what would be considered part of the roadway. Without a picture of the scene, and without speaking to the other party, it is merely conjecture on my part, of course.

- Carl

 

[moburkes]

Well, there you go.

 

[newstart18]

Okay ... by MY read, it sounds like the OP puled to the right hand curb and stopped at a red light to make a right turn on the red. The other vehicle in the same lane was more to the center indicative that he might be going straight. The other vehicle then started forward, turned right, and struck the OP's vehicle on the left side.

Of course insurance companies will decide fault under their own formula. Had the police been called, it is very likely that the OP would NOT have been at fault in their report. This is based upon the assumptions that the expanded asphalt to the right was not a "shoulder" forbidden to traffic and was instead a widened part of the roadway next to a curb.

Some authority to pass on the right:

§ 4511.28. Permission to overtake and pass on the right.

(A) The driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley may overtake and pass upon the right of another vehicle or trackless trolley only under the following conditions:

(2) Upon a roadway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles moving lawfully in the direction being traveled by the overtaking vehicle.

And ...

§ 4511.36. Rules for turns at intersections

A) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall be governed by the following rules:

(1) Approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

There may be others, but this is what my search found to support a contention that the OP might have been in the right to make the turn.

Caveat: This is presuming my assumptions are correct about the location of the vehicles and that the OP was actualyl on what would be considered part of the roadway. Without a picture of the scene, and without speaking to the other party, it is merely conjecture on my part, of course.

- Carl

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Another EXTREMELY important detail I left out, I didn't realize this until I re-visited the scene of the accident yesterday, is that there are 2 red lights at this intersection - not 1 - in the direction we were moving. Wouldn't 2 lights assume 2 lanes? Otherwise, why on Earth are there 2 lights there? The only visible lines are the center lines, but again the white line on the right ends and the asphalt seems to be there for cars turning right.

 

[You Are Guilty]

The number of traffic lights is meaningless. I'd focus more on the fact that you were completely stopped and not moving when the other driver struck you (i.e. he was driving negligently by not looking where he was going). Non-moving cars cannot do anything to avoid an accident when other people drive into them.

Ultimately, I doubt you'll get any of the insurance companies to agree to a 100-0 split on liability, but you are far from fully responsible.