Who owns this house now?

[Zigner]

Was your father's estate probated? Because your mother had the right to take her intestate share of his property if they were married to one another which means that she would have gotten YOUR father's share of the house. If the deed was never changed to just the OP that could be the conclusion that is being drawn.

The house passes outside of probate as a function of JTWROS.

 

[Ohiogal]

The house passes outside of probate as a function of JTWROS.

I understand that HOWEVER she also has a life estate to live in the marital residence. Even if she doesn't own it -- due to the MARRIAGE. If I had time I would find the case law. It is a convoluted mess however with the idea that it is not as simple as deed of the marital home... Now if this is NOT the marital home, I retract everything.

 

[mike spence]

They were married when it was moved into our names, if that's what you need to know.

 

[Zigner]

They were married when it was moved into our names, if that's what you need to know.

No, the question is this: Did they live in it as their primary residence?

 

[mike spence]

yep

 

[Zigner]

yep

OhioGal is a site-vetted attorney. If she says that your mom may, in fact, have some sort of interest in this, then I will defer to her. You should speak with a local real-estate attorney for a second (or third) opinion.

 

[Taxing Matters]

OhioGal is a site-vetted attorney. If she says that your mom may, in fact, have some sort of interest in this, then I will defer to her. You should speak with a local real-estate attorney for a second (or third) opinion.

I used to live in PA and never heard of a spouse getting a lifetime right to stay in the marital home under intestacy even when the home was owned solely by the decedent spouse and part of the estate. No such right is in the PA statute that covers intestacy (20 PA Cons Stat § 2102) nor do I find any cases in my annotated PA code for that section that lists such a right. My own independent search of cases does not find that right either, and I see no mention of it on PA law firm pages that discuss intestate succession rights. And if no such right exists even as to probate property it certainly would not exist in property the decedent spouse owned as joint tenants with a right of survivorship with others. So on this one, I think OhioGal may be mistaken as far as Pennsylvania goes. Some states do provide for such a right, but not all do.

In this circumstance I think the home is likely owned solely by the OP with no rights vested in the mother. But it would be a good idea for the OP to consult a probate attorney as the probate attorney is more likely to know the rights the mother had on the death of the father in this circumstance than a real estate lawyer.

 

[Ohiogal]

I could be wrong. I most likely read the state wrong. Been a long week. I will defer to you TM.

 

[mike spence]

Thanks everyone for the input.

Just now I got a letter regarding a new gas lease, as our old one is expiring. The old one has both parents' name plus mine on it. This offer has only my name on it. My mom got a separate letter related to an acre my parents owned together. It seems like Chevron Appalachia thinks the property is mine.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Thanks everyone for the input.

Just now I got a letter regarding a new gas lease, as our old one is expiring. The old one has both parents' name plus mine on it. This offer has only my name on it. My mom got a separate letter related to an acre my parents owned together. It seems like Chevron Appalachia thinks the property is mine.

Only because you the only living person on the deed. Chevron doesn't make the decision.

 

[RJR]

TM, your post 22 citation is a definition of sorts, not a Statute, sometimes the links do that.

 

[Taxing Matters]

TM, your post 22 citation is a definition of sorts, not a Statute, sometimes the links do that.

Thanks for the information. I corrected the link so that it ought to take people to the statute.

 

[justalayman]

They were married when it was moved into our names, if that's what you need to know.

That might be where things are coming from. Depending on what took place at that time and all the facts of the situation, the mother might have had vested rights in the home and unless she properly released them, they could still be valid. I have not researched the matter but some states have, or had, dower rights that must be properly released or they remain as a valid interest in marital property, even if the wife was never an owner per any deed.



As to the mother signing a quit claim:

I believe that if she does, she should grant any rights she may have to her son, the op. That way, just in case she does have some valid right that everybody seems to be missing, she wouldn’t be granting it to the state for no compensation but to her son thst is apparently intended to be the sole owner at this time.

 

[Taxing Matters]

That might be where things are coming from. Depending on what took place at that time and all the facts of the situation, the mother might have had vested rights in the home and unless she properly released them, they could still be valid. I have not researched the matter but some states have, or had, dower rights that must be properly released or they remain as a valid interest in marital property, even if the wife was never an owner per any deed.

A good catch. PA does still recognize marital rights that are similar to the old common law dower and curtesy rights that might impact this.

 

[mike spence]

Hello everyone. I have an update for anyone interested in this topic. It only took over a month to get some answers...not bad for government work. The lawyer with the state has sent this:

On the ownership issue, it is the law of decedents estates, not the law of marital property, that controls. There is a specific exemption in the provision you cite regarding title by decent. The controlling provision is found at 20 Pa.C.S. Section 2104(7). The deed correctly recognized, in the language of grant, that (Dad's name) was a married individual thus providing (Mom)rights in the entireties to the real property upon his death. (Mom)'s title, in turn, was with a right of survivorship with (My name). In this context, that property may have been gifted earlier in the chain of title is irrelevant.

later...
(Mom)can execute a Directive to Pay the entire amount to (Me), if she desires. That would be the same, essentially, as the "waiver" you suggested

20 Pa.C.S. Section 2104(7)

(7) Tenancy in estate.--When real or personal estate or shares therein shall pass to two or more persons, they shall take it as tenants in common, except that if it shall pass to a husband and wife they shall take it as tenants by the entireties.

So there we are, not that I understand it or anything

Edit: Here is he guy's title

Sr. Counsel in-Charge, R/W Trans. & Litigation
Governor's Office of General Counsel
Department of Transportation
Office of Chief Counsel
Real Property Division