wife's keeping the kids from me

[unforgiven1977]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

My wife and I recently seperated. We will be getting a divorce due to irreconcilable differences.
At first things seemed to be going well. We communicated pleasantly with eachother regarding the kids and came to mutual agreements about them. The mutual agreement being that we would do a shared parenting type deal. She gets the kids one week, I take them the next, so on.
Not suprisingly now she says otherwise. My daughter was very upset after me having dropped her off back at her mom's so my wife's solution is to not let me see her. She told me it would be too much of a problem having her daughter getting that upset every time she had to leave her dad and so I can only see her one day a week and every other weekend. She said that if I had issues with that then we could discuss them in court. I said "Yep."
I've been more than fair up to this point. We also have an infant son that I haven't pushed in getting as much because I know she has detachment/paranoia isssues with him. But told her she would have to get used to the idea of him being away and I would work with her on that.
In addition to all that there are two stepchildren involved that she will never let me see again since I am not the biological father. Even though I'm the only dad they've ever known and have been raising them for the better part of their lives. They don't know their "real" fathers and she only has to give up the younger of the two every other weekend to his grandmother (grandparent rights). This is a seperate issue entirely and I wasn't planning on fighting her on it even if I could. But I was curious to know if I do have anything to say about that from a legal standpoint.
My daughter is 5 years old and my son is 9 months old.
Both me and my wife work but neither of us are currently living in a place of our own. Each of us are living with our perspective parents.
So I guess my question is what my rights may be and how much can I reasonably expect to get from a court decision. Is it fair to assume I could get shared parenting for both?
Things are going to get ugly I can guarantee that. She will fight me every step of the way. Being reasonable and rational have now gone out the window as far as she is concerned.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

My wife and I recently seperated. We will be getting a divorce due to irreconcilable differences.

The proper term is incompatibility. Not irreconciable differences.

At first things seemed to be going well. We communicated pleasantly with eachother regarding the kids and came to mutual agreements about them. The mutual agreement being that we would do a shared parenting type deal. She gets the kids one week, I take them the next, so on.
Not suprisingly now she says otherwise. My daughter was very upset after me having dropped her off back at her mom's so my wife's solution is to not let me see her. She told me it would be too much of a problem having her daughter getting that upset every time she had to leave her dad and so I can only see her one day a week and every other weekend. She said that if I had issues with that then we could discuss them in court. I said "Yep."

So file for temporary orders. Why have you consented to that arrangement by the way?

I've been more than fair up to this point. We also have an infant son that I haven't pushed in getting as much because I know she has detachment/paranoia isssues with him.

So your wife will say in court, your honor, he doesn't want to be around the baby because he doesn't take her as much as our oldest child.

But told her she would have to get used to the idea of him being away and I would work with her on that.

How? You can't force her to work on that with you.

In addition to all that there are two stepchildren involved that she will never let me see again since I am not the biological father. Even though I'm the only dad they've ever known and have been raising them for the better part of their lives. They don't know their "real" fathers and she only has to give up the younger of the two every other weekend to his grandmother (grandparent rights).

You have NO LEGAL right to see those children.

This is a seperate issue entirely and I wasn't planning on fighting her on it even if I could. But I was curious to know if I do have anything to say about that from a legal standpoint.

No. You don't. NOr does the divorce court have jurisdiction over those two children. You are a third party legal stranger.

My daughter is 5 years old and my son is 9 months old.
Both me and my wife work but neither of us are currently living in a place of our own. Each of us are living with our perspective parents.

Where were you living before you separated?

So I guess my question is what my rights may be and how much can I reasonably expect to get from a court decision. Is it fair to assume I could get shared parenting for both?

Its fair but that does NOT mean 50/50 time split.

Things are going to get ugly I can guarantee that. She will fight me every step of the way. Being reasonable and rational have now gone out the window as far as she is concerned.

So have you filed yet?

 

[unforgiven1977]

Thank you Ohiogal for the response.

So file for temporary orders. Why have you consented to that arrangement by the way?

How do I go about filing for temporary orders?
I consented to the arrangement because I thought it was fair and we were being quite civil with eachother. At that point we hadn't decided for sure if we were indeed getting divorced or if we were going to try and work things out.

How? You can't force her to work on that with you.

What I meant by working with her with the baby is that she has serious issues involving paranioa and the kids. She has a diagnosed anxiety disorder so what I was trying to do was make things easier for her by essentially allowing her to wean off of him in effect.
I know, I know...It doesn't pay to be the nice one in these situations. And from here on out the nice hat is off. She drew first blood so to say. Now I expect all-out war.

Where were you living before you separated?

We were living together in a rental until recently. Then I lost my job due to medical reasons. We moved in with her parents because they agreed to help us out. I got better and found new employment.She decided it best if we split so I left. I wasn't going to ask her to leave her parents house.

Its fair but that does NOT mean 50/50 time split.

So even if I don't get the 50/50 split time is it reasonable for me to ask for it. Can I at least hope to get better than the standard every other weekend setup.

So have you filed yet?

Neither of us has done anything with a lawyer or court yet. I will be trying to set up something up for tomorrow.

 

[JustAMom2five]

This is a seperate issue entirely and I wasn't planning on fighting her on it even if I could. But I was curious to know if I do have anything to say about that from a legal standpoint.

You have NO LEGAL right to see those children.


No. You don't. NOr does the divorce court have jurisdiction over those two children. You are a third party legal stranger.

Can step-parents obtain visitation rights?

Courts will consider, and sometimes grant, visitation rights to step parents who have formed a particularly close bond with the child, mostly because it would probably be in the child’s best interest to maintain that relationship. Courts are more likely to grant visitation where the step-parent lived with the child for a long period of time, acted as a substitute parent, and developed a close relationship with the child.

Steparents' Rights: Custody and Visitation

twenty-three states have statutes which authorize stepparent visitation. In ten states (California, Delaware, Kansas, Louisiana, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oregon, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wisconsin), stepparents are explicitly denoted as having the right to request visitation. In thirteen other states (Alaska, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New York, Texas, Washington, and West Virginia), "interested third parties" are granted the right to request visitation, and stepparents come within the definition of interested third parties.

In a visitation case, the third party need only convince the court that it is in the child's best interest to give some time to the third party. As the amount of time requested moves the visit further from a visit and closer to custody, the reasons offered in support of the request must become correspondingly more convincing.


I have the utmost respect for Og and many other seniors on the board. This post is not meant to question her knowledge.. only to let the OP know that IF he had been very close to his ex-step kids then he might have stood a chance.. with many $$ and lots of time spent on the fight to see them
I searched through the forum for an article I had read about this type of issue.. it was a good read but I can't find it right now and since you said you weren't planning on fighting for visitation anyways I limited my time on searching for an answer... did a few google searches.


sorry just wanted to add my two cents.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

You'll want to google "parenting plans" and see ideas of what others have put together.

How hands on were you before the split? Were you the kind who left a lot of it for the wife? Or did you work opposite shifts so that the children were with a parent rather than a babysitter? THAT does make a difference.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I used to pick up a step-child from time to time because she lived with my X and I for many years. Dad gave up custody when we split. That mom knew that it was good for all the children to be together; I enjoyed the visits.

 

[Ohiogal]

Can step-parents obtain visitation rights?

Courts will consider, and sometimes grant, visitation rights to step parents who have formed a particularly close bond with the child, mostly because it would probably be in the child’s best interest to maintain that relationship. Courts are more likely to grant visitation where the step-parent lived with the child for a long period of time, acted as a substitute parent, and developed a close relationship with the child.

Steparents' Rights: Custody and Visitation

twenty-three states have statutes which authorize stepparent visitation. In ten states (California, Delaware, Kansas, Louisiana, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oregon, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wisconsin), stepparents are explicitly denoted as having the right to request visitation. In thirteen other states (Alaska, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New York, Texas, Washington, and West Virginia), "interested third parties" are granted the right to request visitation, and stepparents come within the definition of interested third parties.

In a visitation case, the third party need only convince the court that it is in the child's best interest to give some time to the third party. As the amount of time requested moves the visit further from a visit and closer to custody, the reasons offered in support of the request must become correspondingly more convincing.


I have the utmost respect for Og and many other seniors on the board. This post is not meant to question her knowledge.. only to let the OP know that IF he had been very close to his ex-step kids then he might have stood a chance.. with many $$ and lots of time spent on the fight to see them
I searched through the forum for an article I had read about this type of issue.. it was a good read but I can't find it right now and since you said you weren't planning on fighting for visitation anyways I limited my time on searching for an answer... did a few google searches.


sorry just wanted to add my two cents.

There is an extremely high hurtle to be met and quite frankly he would have to serve both the fathers of the stepchildren AND mom and then prove why it is in the children's best interest for him to have visitation. And yes, it would take A LOT OF MONEY and LOTS of time and the DIVORCE COURT still would NOT have jurisdiction -- it is NOT something that can be handled during his divorce. It is a completely different case.

 

[Ohiogal]

Damnit. I just spent ten minutes typing a response in between phone calls to have the computer eat it. Okay OP here are a few things:

Why have you consented to only seeing your child one day a week and every other weekend? If it has happened once, you have consented. WHY?

Second, a 50/50 timeshare is possible but you need to think outside the box. It doesn't have to be one week on one week off. You can do something like this
Week One MT with mom
WH with dad
FSS with mom
MT with dad
WH with mom
FSS with dad

That is equal time and yet the children see their parents at least every three days.

Third, I hate COMPUTERS but anyway,..... google your county on line and see if they have forms. You should request temporary orders for counseling/visitation and support as well as forcing the two of you adults into mediation.
Also get your child into counseling.

 

[JustAMom2five]

Damnit. I just spent ten minutes typing a response in between phone calls to have the computer eat it.

I hate COMPUTERS

Sorry Og but I totally had a giggle over this. I absolutely hate it when my stupid computer does that to me.

 

[Ohiogal]

Sorry Og but I totally had a giggle over this. I absolutely hate it when my stupid computer does that to me.

Especially when I went through line by line responding. ARRGGH. Your response was right but it is an extremely high HURDLE -- tried to correct that and it froze on me. ARRGH!

 

[JustAMom2five]

Especially when I went through line by line responding. ARRGGH. Your response was right but it is an extremely high HURDLE -- tried to correct that and it froze on me. ARRGH!

Thanks

I'm not even sure why I bothered responding since...

This is a separate issue entirely and I wasn't planning on fighting her on it even if I could. But I was curious to know if I do have anything to say about that from a legal standpoint.

but really I was just looking for that dang article I had read on here... eh

Sorry for the distraction..

 

[unforgiven1977]

She WILL say differently but I was very involved with the children even though I was working full time and, at least a couple of years up until just last week, she did not have a job. In fact she only held a part time job for a short while before the baby was born.
At the very least I did just as much if not more with the baby when I was home than she. I was also so involved with my daughter that she would take to not even letting my wife do things for her. Insisting that I do things for her instead. This is part of the reason she refuses to do shared parenting with her now. She says it's not fair to her because our daughter is telling her she loves her dad more than her mom and that the reason it isn't fair is because she has to split her time between many kids and I don't. So her solution is what she claims is what's best for our daughter. That is to not let me see her as much of course.
I know it's not up to my daughter at all since she's only five but if a judge were to ask her she would essentially say she only ever wanted to be with her dad. That's how close of a relationship we have. And if my son were old enough it would be the same. A relationship like that couldn't have evolved with a lack of involvement.

 

[LdiJ]

Can step-parents obtain visitation rights?

Courts will consider, and sometimes grant, visitation rights to step parents who have formed a particularly close bond with the child, mostly because it would probably be in the child’s best interest to maintain that relationship. Courts are more likely to grant visitation where the step-parent lived with the child for a long period of time, acted as a substitute parent, and developed a close relationship with the child.

Steparents' Rights: Custody and Visitation

twenty-three states have statutes which authorize stepparent visitation. In ten states (California, Delaware, Kansas, Louisiana, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oregon, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wisconsin), stepparents are explicitly denoted as having the right to request visitation. In thirteen other states (Alaska, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New York, Texas, Washington, and West Virginia), "interested third parties" are granted the right to request visitation, and stepparents come within the definition of interested third parties.

In a visitation case, the third party need only convince the court that it is in the child's best interest to give some time to the third party. As the amount of time requested moves the visit further from a visit and closer to custody, the reasons offered in support of the request must become correspondingly more convincing.

I have the utmost respect for Og and many other seniors on the board. This post is not meant to question her knowledge.. only to let the OP know that IF he had been very close to his ex-step kids then he might have stood a chance.. with many $$ and lots of time spent on the fight to see them
I searched through the forum for an article I had read about this type of issue.. it was a good read but I can't find it right now and since you said you weren't planning on fighting for visitation anyways I limited my time on searching for an answer... did a few google searches.


sorry just wanted to add my two cents.

Do you know when that particular article was written? I ask that because the language in the article sounds very much pre-Troxel vs Granville (USSC, June 2000) which is the main controlling case law for third party visitation.

The bolded portion of the paragraph, in particular, would not meet the Troxel standards AT ALL. "Interested third parties" as it was termed, was a significant portion of the Troxel ruling.

The article was also completely incorrect for IL, their third party statutes have been completely rewritten since the IL surpreme court struck down their previous third party visitation laws (which include grandparents and stepparents). Stepparents in IL do have standing to sue for visitation but the scope is extremely narrow. There is a list of elements that the stepparent must meet. I only remember a couple off the top of my head, but two I do remember is that the child must be at least 12 years in age, and the child must express to the court (usually through a GAL) that the child wants the visits. The marriage must also have been of a certain length, but I can't remember how long.

Its also wrong for Georgia, Michigan, Washington, Oregon, Texas and West Virginia, and may be wrong for quite a few of the others as well. I don't have the info off the top of my head and I am not going to take the time to research it.

The only states I know of that have surviving statutory language giving standing to stepparents is IL and NY.

The point that I am making is that I have specific knowledge that a large portion of that article is inaccurate, and I am specifically certain that any state who gave standing to "interested third parties" has amended their statutes since Troxel, either voluntarily doing so, or by being forced to do so after their state supreme court struck down their laws.

Please be very careful, when using articles as research, to note when the article was written, and the source of the article. There is a ton of info posted on the internet as fact, that is substantially incorrect.

I also agree with OG that visitation of that nature could not be ordered as part of a divorce. It would have to be a separate case with both legal parents of the children served...and it would cost BIG bucks.

 

[unforgiven1977]

Keep in mind when I say "recent" I'm talking about 2 weeks ago. We split 2 weeks ago. I never consented to anything as far as one day a week and every other weekend. She told me that today after I'd dropped my daughter off so my wife could take her to get some school supplies. I was supposed to pick her back up later until I got a phone call with my wife chewing me out about how upset our daughter was because she wanted her daddy back.
The only thing I verbally consented to was the idea of the shared parenting. One week for one week. We haven't even had time to work into a routine with it yet. That's how new this is.

 

[JustAMom2five]

Do you know when that particular article was written?


Please be very careful, when using articles as research, to note when the article was written, and the source of the article. There is a ton of info posted on the internet as fact, that is substantially incorrect.

I also agree with OG that visitation of that nature could not be ordered as part of a divorce. It would have to be a separate case with both legal parents of the children served...and it would cost BIG bucks.

Steparents' Rights: Custody and Visitation

sorry Ld.. I included the url of the page with the information I found in my original post but what I was trying to show is that in a matter of minutes OP could have searched not only the web but these forums for more information. In my search for the particular article I had recently read on here came up with 15 pages of similar questions... asked and answered.

It means next to nothing as he has already stated he wouldn't fight for visitation even if he could.

again.. sorry for the distraction