Writ of execution for an entire company?

[Hulu]

You need to be asking these questions of your attorney. However yes, a writ of execution can be a powerful tool, but only if the business has assets that can actually be seized.

What about the business as the asset. The Individual who I have the judgement against may be emptying the account and spending(or hiding)the money every few days.

Allow me to give you an example to prove my point. If you had a judgement against an individual with a single vending machine who is constantly taking those quarters out of the machine and spending it. So you are not going to find any bank account or assets to speak of. He basically runs around walmart and down with a jar full of quarters and spends what he gets as soon as he gets it and proclaims he is judgement proof.

I am thinking of getting the vending machine itself or allowing a court appointed receiver to have the keys to that vending machine in order to have the judgement paid. If I had that vending machine, I could collect my judgement in quarters over a long time. The receiver could split the quarters between me and the owner so I would start getting my judgement or a sheriff can auction that vending machine to people interested in that business and pay me with the proceeds.
In any event, I am not going to find his jar of quarters but the vending machine itself may have some worth.
The vending machine is an analogy for the type of company and person this is but the same principal should apply.
Is that vending machine(business) on the table as far as a writ of execution?

I know this normally involves trying to find a bank account or something but this guy who either spends it instantly or keeps it burred in the back yard.

So far I have not been able to collect so much as 1 penny.

If this gets into sort of a complex area of law that exceeds what this forum is able to do, that is cool too. Just let me know.

 

[Hulu]

Some guesses here:

1 - You didn't have a lawyer.
2 - You filed in small claims court.
3 - The guy didn't show up so you got a default judgment.
4 - You're stuck with product that you can't sell because the same, or similar, products are available everywhere else at a lower cost. (Been there.)
5 - You fell for the hype of making money but have no enforceable contract or promise of same (been there, too, when I was young and foolish.)
6 - The company is going to turn out to be on paper only, with no assets of its own. The owner doesn't stock product. It's drop shipped to his recruits.
7 - If you did manage to properly name the individual, as well as the business, the Utah exemptions are listed at:
Exempt Property in Utah Bankruptcy | Nolo If you don't see a link just google Utah judgment exemptions.
8 - Writ of Execution is a daunting and costly process. You pay fees to the court. You pay fees to the Sheriff. The Sheriff has to pay for storage until the sale and then commissions to the auction company. The exemptions have to be calculated and the exemption money goes to the defendant. Whatever is left goes to you. Keep in mind that personal property is likely to be going for pennies on the dollar. You can read about the procedure on the court website. Writ of Execution - Utah Courts (utcourts.gov)
9 - If you did get a default judgment, once the writ is served he can go to court and get the judgment set aside, for a variety of reasons, and you'll have to go to trial and prove that he actually wronged you.

Which begs the question - What, exactly, were the allegations of wrongdoing that you wrote in your lawsuit complaint? You know, where it says "My claim is based on the following facts." And you were given space to say the facts. Quote that word for word.


PS. You might want to consider giving up this Quixotic chase. You seem to be going down the same rabbit hole that I went through trying to collect judgments from deadbeat tenants. I even tried the collection agency route. No luck there either.

Hello.

Some of what you said is correct however other parts are way off base.
Thank of my judgement against the vending machine owner example.

I can't find the hole that he has his jar of quarters buried but I do know where he has his vending machine itself. '

Vending machine can be auctioned off for real money. If placed in a receivership, it does have money coming in .25 cents at a time slowly but adds up over time. If I becomes the new owner of the vending machine, I could recover what that vending machine sells .25 cents at a time.

The traditional way of finding the wad of cash/quarters does not seem likely in this case but I do know where he keeps his vending machine.

NOLO said nothing about a business being exempt.

 

[Hulu]

Yes. Hulu’s judgment is against an individual, according to his other threads, and he doesn’t seem to know exactly where this individual lives.

The Individual and his company. Both. When I say " company" , I mean him as the 100% owner with a registered name and independent contractors as sales agents who I think get paid a commission on the sale all working from home or virtual office.

 

[Hulu]

Here is a link to the Utah Legal Services Organization with a list of judgment-debtor property exempt from collection:

https://www.utahlegalservices.org/node/50/exempt-property

You previously said that the judgment-debtor operates a company with no physical address, only a PO Box address. Is this still the case?

Here are links to your previous threads relating to your judgment collection:

August 15, 2021: https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/virtual-economic-nexus-and-serving-subpoena-to-out-of-state-companies-which-have-these-nexus-instate.661549/

August 15, 2021:
https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/do-i-have-a-case-for-slander-libel-defamation.661551/

August 25, 2021:
https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/am-i-responsible-for-storage-unit-cost-during-a-writ-of-execution.661604/

It might be time for you to turn your judgment over to a professional debt collector. You will not recover your full judgment this way but you will save yourself time and the obvious frustration you currently are having with the judgment-debtor.

He has a virtual office and UPS store P.O box style and does drop shipping however he still has a company and a network of sales people who sell his product and recruit others to sell for him as is the nature of pyramid scams.

Its like Uber is an APP not a Taxi service. Its drivers can sign on or off as private contractors.
This guy has no physical company office building with people with 9 to 5 jobs like a traditional companies.

He might have stay at home Moms selling the product to their friends or something on the internet.

Its a pyramid scam system. these have been around for a long time. They go my many names but the general idea is the same.

 

[STEPHAN]

It is a registered company? Like an LLC or a corporation?

 

[Zigner]

What proof do you have that he owns the machines that he operates? You can't just take random stuff from random locations.

 

[adjusterjack]

What you are referring to with the vending machine example is an interception of receivables, commonly known as a "till tap." The court would have a sheriff or some other court appointee (not you) get the money from the machine and turn it over to the court after deducting his fee. That person would have to basically stand at the machine 24/7 to keep the defendant from getting to it. Your situation wouldn't fit that type of collection.

You keep referring to pyramid scheme. If an actual product is being sold (you haven't said) by the sales people then it could just as well be a legitimate multi-level marketing company despite you not liking how well insulated he is from judgments.

Read this:

Pyramid Scheme vs MLM (Multilevel Marketing) (thebalancesmb.com)

And this:

C76-6a_1800010118000101.pdf (utah.gov)

If this is really a pyramid scheme (note the definition and distinction) then it's a crime and he can be prosecuted.

If there is a product then the sales people could be buying the product at wholesale, paying for it in advance of delivery, getting it drop shipped, adding their markup and then reselling. Your defendant doesn't stock product except for maybe a few samples.

You wrote that you "think" his sales people get paid a commission. Why don't you "know." Weren't you a sales person? Or is this lawsuit based on something else (you haven't explained why you sued).

Let's back up a bit. You wrote that he didn't show up for a debtor's examination. Was he ordered by the judge to appear personally in court? Was the order properly served? Do you have proof of service. If yes, then the next logical step might be to file for contempt of court. If he doesn't respond to that the judge might issue a bench warrant and have him brought to court.

Keep in mind, however, that whatever he tells you about his finances could change within minutes of him leaving the courtroom before you have a chance to do anything about it.

Does he own a home? You can find that out from the county assessor's website. Your judgment could become a lien on his home. See the instructions at:

How to Collect a Judgment - Utah Courts (utcourts.gov)

OK, let's summarize the additional details that you should provide.

1 - Type of business entity. Sole proprietor (DBA), corporation, LLC.
2 - Your business arrangement with the defendant.
3 - Did you have a written contract?
4 - Reason for suing.
5 - How much money (dollar amount) is your judgment.

 

[adjusterjack]

What proof do you have that he owns the machines that he operates? You can't just take random stuff from random locations.

I think he was using a vending machine as an example, not that one was involved in his business arrangement.

 

[LdiJ]

Based on the explanations you have given so far, I don't see how going to the expense of getting a writ is going to help you. His business does not appear to have physical assets that can be seized, and it doesn't sound like it would have any receivables either. If he is receiving commissions from the main company for the sales made by the people under him, then perhaps you could try to seize those commissions, but even that is somewhat iffy.

 

[doucar]

Your analogy is why you shouldn't bother. You would pay for the writ and then pay the sheriff's office to process it and then would come the big one. You would have to pay the deputy let say$100 per hour to collect the quarters so it would cost you 2400 a day for a 24 hour day to collect a few dollars. You might get the machines if you can prove he owns them not leases them after you pay the cost of the writ and the sheriff's cost to seize and store the machine.

 

[Hulu]

It is a registered company? Like an LLC or a corporation?

Yes its registered company but by these fly by night virtual offices. He does not have some fortune 500 lawfirm doing his filing.
They are basically registered by the least expensive way possible. Like using the walmart accounting service to file taxes.

 

[Hulu]

What proof do you have that he owns the machines that he operates? You can't just take random stuff from random locations.

Vending machines were a simplified example.
He has registered companies with products and network of sales people in a pyramid scheme setup.
I'm not sure what you mean about taking random stuff from random location like some shoplifter?
I have a judgement and intend to get a writ of execution on assets as is my right under the law.
This is a legal tool made available to me in our legal system.

 

[Hulu]

What you are referring to with the vending machine example is an interception of receivables, commonly known as a "till tap." The court would have a sheriff or some other court appointee (not you) get the money from the machine and turn it over to the court after deducting his fee. That person would have to basically stand at the machine 24/7 to keep the defendant from getting to it. Your situation wouldn't fit that type of collection.

You keep referring to pyramid scheme. If an actual product is being sold (you haven't said) by the sales people then it could just as well be a legitimate multi-level marketing company despite you not liking how well insulated he is from judgments.

Read this:

Pyramid Scheme vs MLM (Multilevel Marketing) (thebalancesmb.com)

And this:

C76-6a_1800010118000101.pdf (utah.gov)

If this is really a pyramid scheme (note the definition and distinction) then it's a crime and he can be prosecuted.

If there is a product then the sales people could be buying the product at wholesale, paying for it in advance of delivery, getting it drop shipped, adding their markup and then reselling. Your defendant doesn't stock product except for maybe a few samples.

You wrote that you "think" his sales people get paid a commission. Why don't you "know." Weren't you a sales person? Or is this lawsuit based on something else (you haven't explained why you sued).

Let's back up a bit. You wrote that he didn't show up for a debtor's examination. Was he ordered by the judge to appear personally in court? Was the order properly served? Do you have proof of service. If yes, then the next logical step might be to file for contempt of court. If he doesn't respond to that the judge might issue a bench warrant and have him brought to court.

Keep in mind, however, that whatever he tells you about his finances could change within minutes of him leaving the courtroom before you have a chance to do anything about it.

Does he own a home? You can find that out from the county assessor's website. Your judgment could become a lien on his home. See the instructions at:

How to Collect a Judgment - Utah Courts (utcourts.gov)

OK, let's summarize the additional details that you should provide.

1 - Type of business entity. Sole proprietor (DBA), corporation, LLC.
2 - Your business arrangement with the defendant.
3 - Did you have a written contract?
4 - Reason for suing.
5 - How much money (dollar amount) is your judgment.

You diagram the business structure, its a pyramid regardless of what they official call it.

vending machine was an example of going for the asset I can see vs the wild goose chase that is finding his real bank account or whatever hole he has burred his money.
I don't want someone standing next to him 24/7 to take money out of some machine but maybe his comapany can be placed in the hands of a court appointed received where is can be auction off, sold to someone in that business or even run by that receiver who can collect the money until the judgement is paid off? Perhaps offering some kind of split between me( the judgement holder) and him(the owner)
I think courts have done thing when a Madoff type scam happens to device how the victims will be paid.

1. for profit corporation.
2. Breach of contract/ Judgement holder.
3. Yes.
4. Breach of contract.
5. About a new Range rover worth.

"Does he own a home? You can find that out from the county assessor's website. Your judgment could become a lien on his home. See the instructions at:"
Every single address he has provided is either a UPS store or a virtual office. The business is run like a Indian call center scam only its with a US citizen. I'm not sure what county he lives in or if he owns a house or is subleasing some apartment with his name off the books. He might also be using a fake name for his house and another name for this business.

This point is about collection a judgement before it runs out. I'm not sure if there is anything left to do in court that does not involve finding assets and collecting on the judgement.

He does not show up to court, he was already found in contempt of court, he does not care. I'm not sure if you can hire a bounty hunter for that kind of thing? I am open to suggestions as long as they are helping in collecting the judgement and not telling me to give up.

Thank you .

 

[adjusterjack]

I have no more comments to make. Good luck in your pursuit.

 

[quincy]

[QUOTE="Hulu, post: 3756648, member: 712276”]
... I'm not sure if you can hire a bounty hunter for that kind of thing? I am open to suggestions as long as they are helping in collecting the judgement and not telling me to give up.
... [/QUOTE]

You can hire not a “bounty hunter” but a professional debt collector. The debt collector will help you collect money on a judgment. Or you can sell the judgment to a debt collection agency.

You will not collect the whole of your judgment this way but it moves your collection and saves you the stay-in-place tire-spinning you are doing now.

I think this was suggested to you earlier but, since you seem amenable to the idea of a bounty hunter, you might be open to revisiting the idea of a professional debt collector now.