Dad required to pay my pregnancy medical bills... but how?

[MHR]

I see you have some things to learn about family law. Here, you can learn.

One of the first things I would tell you is that you don't *need* to understand every reason WHY things are the way they are. We just deal with what IS.

I see your point... but if the reason why is because "that's just the way it is"... well, I learned from my experience with my attorney that judges DO and will go against the rules if given a good reason to do so. So that's why I'm here to understand the why, so I can beat the why.

 

[MHR]

What exactly is it you want us to say?

Your attorney answered your question best - listen to your attorney. We should not be second-guessing your attorney, period.

I would agree with you, if it wasn't for that I'm filing a fee dispute with the bar against my attorney, for reasons that aren't relevant to this thread. I don't mind spilling them, but I didn't want to take this conversation too far off in another direction.

 

[MHR]

And because Dad is not too likely to be penalized in advance for what Mom says he might do.

You don't think his history of not following deadlines and orders clearly demonstrates what is to come in the future? Did you see the additional example I gave a few comments back about child support office suspending his license in 2 weeks?

And before you say it, yes I would agree that the judge should've been made aware of dads behavior. This is just a tiny sliver of the story surrounding why I'm filing a fee dispute against my attorney. There's a lot of things that SHOULD have been done, but weren't, and that's why I'm here now because I'm cleaning up the mess.

 

[Just Blue]

You don't think his history of not following deadlines and orders clearly demonstrates what is to come in the future? Did you see the additional example I gave a few comments back about child support office suspending his license in 2 weeks?

Until Dad ACTUALLY does it, it is not relevant.

 

[MHR]

Until Dad ACTUALLY does it, it is not relevant.

That's where I might be heading with this... so lets say the final order is written to include that I'll make the payments and he repays within 30 days (the standard in my state)... THEN once he doesn't follow the order THEN I have grounds to file a motion asking to have the dollar amount of the medical bills reduced to judgment, right?

Now that I think of it, I could make a really small payment, say $10 and send dad the receipt and then when he doesn't pay (because he never does) then I file the motion, right? It's not about the dollar amount for him, he certainly has the ability to pay. The only reason why he doesn't is that he hasn't been smacked hard enough by the judges yet for him to learn that there are consequences for not doing what you were told to do. I might be a little delayed in being able to show him what those consequences will be, but it's just a matter of time for the financial aspect to come together. That's what led me to explore the option of representing myself from now on and found a few family law paralegals to choose from, because writing the stuff up would be the part I'd suck at the most. The part with presenting my case to judge is pretty easy, he's a very laid back guy and he's very patient... unless if you are clearly doing something with bad intentions.

 

[Ladyback1]

That's where I might be heading with this... so lets say the final order is written to include that I'll make the payments and he repays within 30 days (the standard in my state)... THEN once he doesn't follow the order THEN I have grounds to file a motion asking to have the dollar amount of the medical bills reduced to judgment, right?

Now that I think of it, I could make a really small payment, say $10 and send dad the receipt and then when he doesn't pay (because he never does) then I file the motion, right? It's not about the dollar amount for him, he certainly has the ability to pay. The only reason why he doesn't is that he hasn't been smacked hard enough by the judges yet for him to learn that there are consequences for not doing what you were told to do. I might be a little delayed in being able to show him what those consequences will be, but it's just a matter of time for the financial aspect to come together. That's what led me to explore the option of representing myself from now on and found a few family law paralegals to choose from, because writing the stuff up would be the part I'd suck at the most. The part with presenting my case to judge is pretty easy, he's a very laid back guy and he's very patient... unless if you are clearly doing something with bad intentions.

I *believe* that your first may have to file a contempt motion against dad for disregarding the court's order.

And, I'm gonna tell ya'--even with a judgment, there is still no guarantee that you will ever see a dime of money from Dad. (The $500 that my Ex was ordered to reimburse me for (kids medical bills) would certainly come in handy now....I filed for contempt, "won" that--then when the Ex ignored that, the judge gave me a judgment against the Ex. I eventually turned it over to a professional collection company--but it's been 2 years, neither I or the collection company have r'cd anything. Ex got "sick", and is currently not working...no bank account to attach and no employer to attempt garnishment)

 

[MHR]

I *believe* that your first may have to file a contempt motion against dad for disregarding the court's order.

And, I'm gonna tell ya'--even with a judgment, there is still no guarantee that you will ever see a dime of money from Dad. (The $500 that my Ex was ordered to reimburse me for (kids medical bills) would certainly come in handy now....I filed for contempt, "won" that--then when the Ex ignored that, the judge gave me a judgment against the Ex. I eventually turned it over to a professional collection company--but it's been 2 years, neither I or the collection company have r'cd anything. Ex got "sick", and is currently not working...no bank account to attach and no employer to attempt garnishment)

One of the few positives that has come from all this is that I found out dad makes even more than what I thought he did. I knew he did well, but not to the extent of $118k/yr salary plus additional side jobs. He has a solid job with a very well known company that has a 50/50 chance you're typing from a computer you bought from them. Because of discovery I have his bank account information, I know exactly when and how much he gets paid. And luckily his state is one of those that cooperates with foreign judgments.

 

[Proserpina]

Okay.

I understand what you want to do, but I'm not convinced at this point whether or not you should push for something that isn't likely to begin with.

Dad's previous history won't compel the court to follow your suggestion and in many ways that's how it should be.

The court can't force the provider to bill Dad (but you know that already). The court also can't render a money judgment or penalty over something which hasn't yet happened.

The long and short of it is that yes, you'll be paying the bill. If you pay $10, don't expect the court to be happy at you essentially wasting the court's time for the sake of $10. No matter how wonderful the judge may be, he has only limited patience...and this is going to come across as petty and perhaps even vindictive.

Choose your battles wisely.

 

[MHR]

Okay.

I understand what you want to do, but I'm not convinced at this point whether or not you should push for something that isn't likely to begin with.

Dad's previous history won't compel the court to follow your suggestion and in many ways that's how it should be.

The court can't force the provider to bill Dad (but you know that already). The court also can't render a money judgment or penalty over something which hasn't yet happened.

The long and short of it is that yes, you'll be paying the bill. If you pay $10, don't expect the court to be happy at you essentially wasting the court's time for the sake of $10. No matter how wonderful the judge may be, he has only limited patience...and this is going to come across as petty and perhaps even vindictive.

Choose your battles wisely.

True. But I can file a motion to show contempt for the 1k fees he's already 30 days past due AND for the failure to repay the medical bills all in the same motion, right? If so then I'll just wait for the first month to go by after the first medical payment is made and then file 1 motion for both purposes. My soon-to-be-ex-attorney said the penalty for not paying the first 1k attorney fees is a $500 fine plus 25 days in jail (but is unlikely, which is fine).

I think putting both of those in the same motion would really get my point across to the judge. First, we had to file a motion for their lack of responding to discovery. Of course they lost. And then NOW I'd be having to file another motion to enforce the payment of the fees he was ordered to pay for the motion. And with the lack of repayment of a small medical bill on top of it, clearly he has a pattern here of never following what he was told to do.

 

[cheesecake46580]

Make the deals with the creditors, one by one, pay each one and also pay a little on each of the others, if they accept payment they must report that, even if it's $5. Keep all your reciepts and do what your attorney says, submit the bills. Medical bills are not as harmful as badly paid loans, credit cards ect.

This is very true we just refinanced our home and had 2 medical bills from my cancer treatment we have been paying on. all we had to do was to fill out an affidavit saying they were for medical bills and they discounted them and rescored our credit score. (the finance co that is) even if you just pay them 5 bucks a month it will help keep from further collection or from being able to take you to court over them.

 

[Zigner]

This is very true we just refinanced our home and had 2 medical bills from my cancer treatment we have been paying on. all we had to do was to fill out an affidavit saying they were for medical bills and they discounted them and rescored our credit score. (the finance co that is) even if you just pay them 5 bucks a month it will help keep from further collection or from being able to take you to court over them.

The "finance company" doesn't generate your credit score.

Paying $5 per month will in no way guarantee that they won't take further collection actions, up to and (possibly) including going to court.

 

[MHR]

Here's another thought, once the final order is signed by the judge... can I withhold a child support deviation for nonpayment of the medical bills once they're past due and/or 1k attorney fees he is 30 days past due on?

Let me explain: judge set the child support amount, and then dad is to receive a $200 travel deviation for each visit he makes to come see my son, up to 2 times per month. I already discussed this with the child support office, they will enforce the base child support amount, but they absolutely cannot do anything with the deviations because of how much work they would need to do to 'police' it... like checking to see IF he took his visitation time, and whether he took the full amount, etc etc.

So given that we'll be in the scenario of HIM having to count on ME following the order and refunding him... is this my chance to collect anything he's PAST DUE on? Or do you think a judge would expect each monetary issue to be it's own independent issue? If I don't refund him he'd have to file a motion to enforce me to pay it. And if he actually did that he'd already have the outstanding balance with me first, and I'm inclined to think the judge would just laugh at him trying to enforce payment when HE hasn't paid according to the orders.

 

[Ladyback1]

I realize that this is something you are passionate about (Dad paying what he is supposed to). I have been there, and went down much the same path as you.
Got my contempt motion heard, and I won. Dad didn't pay off the judge's orders (on the contempt issue). Judge turned it into a judgment against the X. I turned the X over to collections.

Then I was thinking "well, if he can't be an involved parent, he can at least financially responsible and help take care of his children that way!"

NOW? I have come to the realization and understanding that some parents just won't/can't/don't be a parent--emotionally, physically or financially. And once I wrapped my brain around that bit of truth; I realized that me forcing the matter and going to great lengths to "make him pay" was only allowing the X to still be in control of my life (to some degree) and there was NOTHING that I could do to "make" the X step up and do anything he didn't want to do.

After I quit stressing the idea that X was a "deadbeat dad", my mental and emotional states were so much better.

And when my current husband chose to adopt the children (after their birth father asked my husband if he wanted to adopt the kids), I was even able to forgive $1600 in child support arrears!

I said all of that to say this: You are NEVER, EVER going to force your Ex to do the right thing. If he doesn't think he should have to pay, he just won't! And if you continue down this vindictive road, you will end up one sad, beaten and angry woman!

 

[LdiJ]

I realize that this is something you are passionate about (Dad paying what he is supposed to). I have been there, and went down much the same path as you.
Got my contempt motion heard, and I won. Dad didn't pay off the judge's orders (on the contempt issue). Judge turned it into a judgment against the X. I turned the X over to collections.

Then I was thinking "well, if he can't be an involved parent, he can at least financially responsible and help take care of his children that way!"

NOW? I have come to the realization and understanding that some parents just won't/can't/don't be a parent--emotionally, physically or financially. And once I wrapped my brain around that bit of truth; I realized that me forcing the matter and going to great lengths to "make him pay" was only allowing the X to still be in control of my life (to some degree) and there was NOTHING that I could do to "make" the X step up and do anything he didn't want to do.

After I quit stressing the idea that X was a "deadbeat dad", my mental and emotional states were so much better.

And when my current husband chose to adopt the children (after their birth father asked my husband if he wanted to adopt the kids), I was even able to forgive $1600 in child support arrears!

I said all of that to say this: You are NEVER, EVER going to force your Ex to do the right thing. If he doesn't think he should have to pay, he just won't! And if you continue down this vindictive road, you will end up one sad, beaten and angry woman!

My philosophy is similar, but a little different.

I do not believe that anyone should ever count on child support. I think that people should live their lives and run their budget without including child support in it, and then be pleasantly surprised when they do get the money. I think that people should save the bulk of it for emergencies or future needs of the children, rather than counting on it for daily life.

Stuff happens and even the most stable and consistent of non-custodial parents could end up either disappointing or be unable to meet their obligations at some time in the children's minority.

However, I do not believe in letting the parent off the hook, legally, unless like in your case, there is a stepparent willing and able to adopt and be the parent they do not have.

 

[Zigner]

My philosophy is similar, but a little different.

I do not believe that anyone should ever count on child support. I think that people should live their lives and run their budget without including child support in it, and then be pleasantly surprised when they do get the money. I think that people should save the bulk of it for emergencies or future needs of the children, rather than counting on it for daily life.

Stuff happens and even the most stable and consistent of non-custodial parents could end up either disappointing or be unable to meet their obligations at some time in the children's minority.

I don't think your philosophy is different at all The overarching point is that one should not rely on child support.