Dealer can't provide title, can I cancel deal and win in court

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

http://dor.mo.gov/forms/Dealer_Operating_Manual.pdf

When the guy sells the cars, how do you test drive them? Using dealer plates?

 

[BL]

http://dor.mo.gov/forms/Dealer_Operating_Manual.pdf

When the guy sells the cars, how do you test drive them? Using dealer plates?

Ok so I see 10-1 and 10-2 .

Can any of these requirements be meant ?

 

[justalayman]

I wonder if this would be of concern:

TRANSFERRING OWNERSHIP OF A MOTOR VEHICLE
Section 301.210, RSMo, requires both parties (buyer and seller) to sign and complete a properly assigned
certificate of ownership at the time of sale of a motor vehicle or trailer. It is unlawful for any person or dealer
to “skip” assignment or be in possession of an “open title”. An “open title” is a title that has the seller’s
signature in the title assignment area but the purchaser’s information is blank.

so, since he dealer did not have proof of ownership and has not signed a properly assigned certificate of ownership AT THE TIME OF THE SALE, it would appear the contract would, at least, be voidable if not actually void.

whatchya thinking now ohioroadwarrior?

and just in case you wish to continue to argue, there is a section allowing a dealer to sell a vehicle without a title (which really isn't applicable since the dealer purported to have a title) but what the Hell, we'll look at it anyway.

The dealer must provide the purchaser:

 A signed sales contract;

 Proof the dealer acquired the vehicle from the last titled owner in the form of a Department
Internet record look-up printout, other Department record search, or a Car Fax search;

 A notarized lien release on the lienholder’s letterhead or a Notice of Lien, Lien Release, or
Authorization To Add/Remove Name From Title (Form 4809), if applicable;

 An Internet or other Department record showing no child support liens on the vehicle (see
www.dort.mo.gov/mvdl/motorv/childlien/); and

 A copy of the duplicate title application in the previous owner’s name and a copy of the POA’s the
dealer received from the seller.

 The selling dealer and the purchaser must complete Part B of the Secure Power of Attorney
(Exhibit E), if the dealer is selling the motor vehicle prior to receipt of the duplicate title, which
authorizes the dealer to sign on behalf of the purchaser and make the odometer disclosure on
the second title assignment of the duplicate title.

 The purchaser may not make application for title until the dealer provides the assigned
duplicate title and secure POA to him or her

I'm seeing a few things the dealer obviously has not supplied to the OP.

and in that link must is underlined so I think the state is pretty clear on that.


So ORW, whatchya think?

 

[lundbythebay]

I wonder if this would be of concern:


so, since he dealer did not have proof of ownership and has not signed a properly assigned certificate of ownership AT THE TIME OF THE SALE, it would appear the contract would, at least, be voidable if not actually void.

whatchya thinking now ohioroadwarrior?

and just in case you wish to continue to argue, there is a section allowing a dealer to sell a vehicle without a title (which really isn't applicable since the dealer purported to have a title) but what the Hell, we'll look at it anyway.



I'm seeing a few things the dealer obviously has not supplied to the OP.

and in that link must is underlined so I think the state is pretty clear on that.


So ORW, whatchya think?

This is perfect. The title was open. And when I had the DMV look it up, they were not connected to the car. Thanks you for finding this. I have found similar things, but nothing worded so clearly. Thank you for all your help!

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I think the dealer can meet the first part, possession with a Bill of Sale. In regard to the damaged title, I think the dealer will have a non compliance problem, because of some of the Part D requirements. That is not a court matter. That is DMV licensing matter. In fact, if you lodge a complaint they ask if a court case has been filed. I do not see this changing the potential outcomes in court. At best, it would support a rescission and charge for the vehicles use, which I already projected as a possible outcome.

 

[justalayman]

This is perfect. The title was open. And when I had the DMV look it up, they were not connected to the car. Thanks you for finding this. I have found similar things, but nothing worded so clearly. Thank you for all your help!

wasn't me. It was tinkerbeluver



O

HRoadwarrior
I think the dealer can meet the first part, possession with a Bill of Sale.

and? It requires all applicable parts to be fulfilled. Missing one? MIght as well not have any.

In regard to the damaged title, I think the dealer will have a non compliance problem, because of some of the Part D requirements. That is not a court matter. That is DMV licensing matter. In fact, if you lodge a complaint they ask if a court case has been filed. I do not see this changing the potential outcomes in court. At best, it would support a rescission and charge for the vehicles use, which I already projected as a possible outcome.

actually, the OP can deal with it either way:

dmv; if he wants to complete the sale

court; if he wants to rescind the sale. the DMV does not have the authority to rescind a sale. They get to go; nope, we can't process it as it is; after which, you go to court and seek a rescission. The DMV does not have the power the court has to address the contract and determine if it is void or voidable and surely do not have the power to order the sale rescinded and even worse; address the issue of the trade in.



and again; what vehicle use? He put another car on the road because he cannot title and license this one.

 

[lundbythebay]

http://dor.mo.gov/forms/Dealer_Operating_Manual.pdf

When the guy sells the cars, how do you test drive them? Using dealer plates?

I just wanted to clarify the reason I pointed out the dealer plates. I had my vehicle listed on craigslist when the Mechanic contacted me. We met between our locations at a gas station. He said it was his car, but that he sells through a friend that is a dealer. I figured because he had dealer plates and that the dealer had signed the title, that this was legit. Unfortunately, this was an open title from the dealer he bought it from....and he didn't buy it in his name, he bought it in the dealers name.

The DMV stated that the guy didn't register it to avoid paying taxes. The next time I went back and they saw the white out, they were appalled. They had never seen anything this messed up from a dealer. They made copies just to keep for themselves and gave me phone numbers and encouraged me to make formal complaints. Being that they deal in this everyday, and they saw the paperwork first hand, I took their advice. I have made a complaint with MODOR and with the Attorney Generals Office.

DMV said on both occasions that I needed a clean title, title for application, and a secured power of attorney. But because he is a dealer, going at it from a different stand point, I can see where he needs the IDOD....This is just for him to get the title assign to them....not to me...that will be yet another step. Thanks everyone for all the info. I will keep you posted....he did pick up the car today and has it in his possession and now I really have nothing. I hope that wasn't a mistake on my part....but I wanted to be cooperative.

 

[BL]

I just wanted to clarify the reason I pointed out the dealer plates. I had my vehicle listed on craigslist when the Mechanic contacted me. We met between our locations at a gas station. He said it was his car, but that he sells through a friend that is a dealer. I figured because he had dealer plates and that the dealer had signed the title, that this was legit. Unfortunately, this was an open title from the dealer he bought it from....and he didn't buy it in his name, he bought it in the dealers name.

The DMV stated that the guy didn't register it to avoid paying taxes. The next time I went back and they saw the white out, they were appalled. They had never seen anything this messed up from a dealer. They made copies just to keep for themselves and gave me phone numbers and encouraged me to make formal complaints. Being that they deal in this everyday, and they saw the paperwork first hand, I took their advice. I have made a complaint with MODOR and with the Attorney Generals Office.

DMV said on both occasions that I needed a clean title, title for application, and a secured power of attorney. But because he is a dealer, going at it from a different stand point, I can see where he needs the IDOD....This is just for him to get the title assign to them....not to me...that will be yet another step. Thanks everyone for all the info. I will keep you posted....he did pick up the car today and has it in his possession and now I really have nothing. I hope that wasn't a mistake on my part....but I wanted to be cooperative.

What was your requested resolution with the attorney General's Office .

Generally they won't take a complaint with a requested resolution if you have already filed small claims.

They could note it and if they receive enough of the same type ,they could investigate this dealer .

You said though the DBA isn't even licensed to operate .

 

[lundbythebay]

What was your requested resolution with the attorney General's Office .

Generally they won't take a complaint with a requested resolution if you have already filed small claims.

They could note it and if they receive enough of the same type ,they could investigate this dealer .

You said though the DBA isn't even licensed to operate .

His DBA shows up as a licensed dealer, but the business entity that it falls under is currently expired. I filed with the Attorney General a few weeks before I did the small claims. My resolution was to either get my vehicle back or the ad price (which is less then the FMV). I am not trying to get anything extra. I know the one poster claimed unjust enrichment. But I don't think that will fly as it has sat taking up space in my driveway and causing me significant financial issues. Small claims here is only 5000. I won't even break even. Plus he wasn't like a builder that puts in 6 months of work...he did not experience any loss. He has the money from my vehicle that he sold and is the only one that has benefited. Thanks again.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Actually, I would say him taking possession of the car is good thing for you. He should have a surety bond on file with the state, if he does not resolve the situation to your satisfaction and you sue for more.

 

[lundbythebay]

I think the dealer can meet the first part, possession with a Bill of Sale. In regard to the damaged title, I think the dealer will have a non compliance problem, because of some of the Part D requirements. That is not a court matter. That is DMV licensing matter. In fact, if you lodge a complaint they ask if a court case has been filed. I do not see this changing the potential outcomes in court. At best, it would support a rescission and charge for the vehicles use, which I already projected as a possible outcome.

Actually, he did not have a bill of sale...he didn't even know he owned it, but I am sure he can get copies from the last dealer....they are all friends. I appreciate the Devil's Advocate role as it does make you really examine things.

 

[justalayman]

Ya got me curious:

just what did the dealer say he was intending on doing when he picked up the car?

 

[TigerD]

Ya got me curious:

just what did the dealer say he was intending on doing when he picked up the car?

funsucker says he was repossessing for nonpayment.

DC

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

funsucker says he was repossessing for nonpayment.

DC

I can honestly say I had not considered that.

 

[justalayman]

funsucker says he was repossessing for nonpayment.

DC

boy would that lend a new level of fun to the issue. The dealer, who doesn't actually own the car but sold the car to the op and has failed to provide a negotiable title has now repossessed the vehicle for non-payment?