Land use

[Curious2134]

What is the name of your state? Missouri

When we bought this property our disclosure says the northern neighbor had a fence line on our property. 90% wooded. We accepted anyway. A couple years ago I was looking for wood after we ran out and a tree had fallen on are property. I went to get it and ran into a fence. THEN I calculated using GPS just how much land of ours is on the other side of the fence.

Not satisfied, I hired a surveyor to come and asked the neighbor to be with us. He had no idea, having recently purchased that property, and there was no disclosure about fencing on his end. We spent the day, the surveyor, him, and me, and it was clear by the flags we have acreage beyond the fence. Mostly wooded, maybe a quarter acre the cows have cleared but nothing developed.

The barbed wire fence has been there a long time growing into trees. Best we can tell is, the original people around when the fence was put in for cows was done to minimize the work traversing a ditch. The neighbor, in my opinion, doesn't NEED this area other than it would save him money replacing the fence – which he wants to do.

Few questions – if after years of it being this way, is the fence row ours instead of our land being his? The property lines are on GPS these days. If the law decides the land is theirs, are they obligated to pay me all the taxes on that property that have been paid over the years? If the law decides it's ours, can I just take down the fence row if I wish to? (I don't, just establishing ownership)

Frankly I'm not worried about problems with this owner but if his property sells again, who knows what the next owner may do. I'd like to get this worked out somehow. I don't want my northern neighbor to have to put a new fence row either...

It's coming up today because I need to install a pole to receive a cell signal that would work perfect on our property on the wrong side of the fence. The current owner wouldn't care but the next might.

Thanks for any input

 

[adjusterjack]

You paid for a survey.

Now pay for a lawyer.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state? Missouri

When we bought this property our disclosure says the northern neighbor had a fence line on our property. 90% wooded. We accepted anyway. A couple years ago I was looking for wood after we ran out and a tree had fallen on are property. I went to get it and ran into a fence. THEN I calculated using GPS just how much land of ours is on the other side of the fence.

Not satisfied, I hired a surveyor to come and asked the neighbor to be with us. He had no idea, having recently purchased that property, and there was no disclosure about fencing on his end. We spent the day, the surveyor, him, and me, and it was clear by the flags we have acreage beyond the fence. Mostly wooded, maybe a quarter acre the cows have cleared but nothing developed.

The barbed wire fence has been there a long time growing into trees. Best we can tell is, the original people around when the fence was put in for cows was done to minimize the work traversing a ditch. The neighbor, in my opinion, doesn't NEED this area other than it would save him money replacing the fence – which he wants to do.

Few questions – if after years of it being this way, is the fence row ours instead of our land being his? The property lines are on GPS these days. If the law decides the land is theirs, are they obligated to pay me all the taxes on that property that have been paid over the years? If the law decides it's ours, can I just take down the fence row if I wish to? (I don't, just establishing ownership)

Frankly I'm not worried about problems with this owner but if his property sells again, who knows what the next owner may do. I'd like to get this worked out somehow. I don't want my northern neighbor to have to put a new fence row either...

It's coming up today because I need to install a pole to receive a cell signal that would work perfect on our property on the wrong side of the fence. The current owner wouldn't care but the next might.

Thanks for any input

Do you know who has been paying taxes on this portion of the property over the years?

I agree with adjusterjack that you should not rely on an Internet forum to answer the questions you have but rather you should have a real estate attorney in your area help you determine ownership.

 

[STEPHAN]

I know it is too late, but for others: Never buy a property without a survey.

 

[quincy]

I know it is too late, but for others: Never buy a property without a survey.

Many people seem to rely on the property surveys done by mortgage lenders, which can be a mistake. Mortgage lenders only want to ensure the structure being mortgaged is not encroaching on adjacent properties. The simple surveys are for that purpose and not to determine legal boundaries.

I personally don’t see an issue with this fence as it does not appear that it was intended as a boundary marker or used as such.

 

[Bali Hai Again]

The fence was used to keep the cows in place and reading OP’s post, the cows are still there. OP also explains that the new neighbor doesn’t care where the property line is. If that is the case why is OP asking these questions? As described above, OP needs to talk to an attorney before just tearing down the fence Or putting up a tower on the other side of it.

 

[quincy]

The fence was used to keep the cows in place and reading OP’s post, the cows are still there. OP also explains that the new neighbor doesn’t care where the property line is. If that is the case why is OP asking these questions? As described above, OP needs to talk to an attorney before just tearing down the fence Or putting up a tower on the other side of it.

I think the question is mostly to clear the matter up before anything is erected on the other side of the fence and to eliminate questions of ownership prior to any future sales of the properties. Definitely legitimate reasons for the questions.

 

[Curious2134]

Thank you all for the great points and information. Yes, the idea is exactly as quincy states, eliminate questions of ownership. I have no intention of removing the fence unless there's some reason I have to. On the survey print we were given when we purchased the property, the fence-line isn't displayed. It's not on the one I just had done either. The mention that a fence on the property existed was in our purchase's disclosures. I didn't walk the perimeter of the property to see if there were problems that might come up but in hindsight, I should have at least looked at that fence. I'm hoping to work this out with the current owner instead of initiating a dispute, something like any fence upgrade must follow the property line.

 

[quincy]

Thank you all for the great points and information. Yes, the idea is exactly as quincy states, eliminate questions of ownership. I have no intention of removing the fence unless there's some reason I have to. On the survey print we were given when we purchased the property, the fence-line isn't displayed. It's not on the one I just had done either. The mention that a fence on the property existed was in our purchase's disclosures. I didn't walk the perimeter of the property to see if there were problems that might come up but in hindsight, I should have at least looked at that fence. I'm hoping to work this out with the current owner instead of initiating a dispute, something like any fence upgrade must follow the property line.

I think you are smart to try to work this out with the current property owner, especially since the current property owner seems to be friendly. A future owner might not be.

Good luck.

 

[Bali Hai Again]

Thank you all for the great points and information. Yes, the idea is exactly as quincy states, eliminate questions of ownership. I have no intention of removing the fence unless there's some reason I have to. On the survey print we were given when we purchased the property, the fence-line isn't displayed. It's not on the one I just had done either. The mention that a fence on the property existed was in our purchase's disclosures. I didn't walk the perimeter of the property to see if there were problems that might come up but in hindsight, I should have at least looked at that fence. I'm hoping to work this out with the current owner instead of initiating a dispute, something like any fence upgrade must follow the property line.

To me the survey establishes ownership, end of story. However, these stupid archaic “adverse possession” laws can come into play with the courts if it goes that far. Hopefully you can establish ownership of YOUR land (that you bought and paid for) with the friendly neighbor without a dispute.

 

[quincy]

To me the survey establishes ownership, end of story. However, these stupid archaic “adverse possession” laws can come into play with the courts if it goes that far. Hopefully you can establish ownership of YOUR land (that you bought and paid for) with the friendly neighbor without a dispute.

A lot could depend on the property taxes and who has been paying for that slice of land.

 

[STEPHAN]

A lot could depend on the property taxes and who has been paying for that slice of land.

OP never answered that question.

 

[quincy]

OP never answered that question.

I know.

 

[LdiJ]

OP never answered that question.

I realize that is a relevant question often asked, but realistically, unless the land in question is its own parcel the odds that anyone other than the owner is paying the taxes are slim to none. Think about it? Unless the owner isn't paying his taxes at all and someone else is paying his whole bill the taxes on the land in question are getting paid when he pays the tax on the entire parcel.

 

[not2cleverRed]

I'm curious... You don't need to remove the fence in order to put up a new one in the correct place.

Would there be anything wrong with OP getting a surveyor to put in permanent monuments (if they're not there already) and just passive aggressively fencing in their entire lot, including the fence in question?